1084 replies to this topic

[Arcturious]

Voted yes to 2.0 damage. While it will hurt lights drastically in the short term until the new bones go in for streak allocation, it will drastically increase the viability of mechs like the Dragon and mediums that might rely on at most 2x SRM systems for damage.

Taken as a whole, we have a huge number of changes incoming and I would like to counsel people to patience - which I know is hard as I've been one of the number against the boating system.

However we have the following:

12v12
Potential HSR / Hit reg fix
New mech bones for streak damage allocation
Heat damage over 100%
New, hotter map in rotation
SRM damage increase to 2.0
New boating penalties
Probably something else I'm forgetting...

Any one of which can change the meta up significantly. So I definitely will hold my horses and wait and see how it pans out. SRM damage buff alone will significantly decrease a snipers average life expectancy. Fast mediums and lights mounting 2-3 SRM launchers will now have a better chance in a brawl of being viable.

The only one I disagree with is the boating solution, which I disagree from the point of view that it is unintuitive and will be difficult to track and understand even for long time players. New players have a snowballs chance in hades of building mechs and playing under this system. However, I agree with the principle behind it.

It encourages open choice and doesn't restrict you from building a mech the way you choose
It gives a risk / reward value to performing an Alpha strike, rather than outright preventing you
It has no direct effect on your ability to aim (the best part)
It does however add risk / reward to pin point aim by;
- heat penalty for pin point alpha
- spreading damage across a mech by increasing time between shots

So I agree in principle with the goals of the system, I just don't think the implementation is the best way to achieve those goals.

As above though, I will wait and see as I'm sure this is only the beginning. I highly doubt the systems will remain like this and now we have a public test server I'm hoping we see more aggressive patches like these. So overall good work PGI. I'm looking forward to the road to release.

Edited by Arcturious, 11 July 2013 - 04:13 PM.

[Orzorn]

Nebelfeuer, on 11 July 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

You might want to get rid of the idea that a mech that carries a big weapon loadout is supposed to fire it repeatedly together.
Look at the stockloadouts and you will notice that most mechs are not capable of alphastriking repeatedly without getting heatissues.

This can be solved partially by altering heat on weapons and partially by making it so the heat cap isn't so insanely high.

Lower the heat cap and watch high heat, high alpha builds cook along with the new heat values.

[hoverstorm]

Good job, paul. This is the type of communication we are expecting to PGI. You are the second person in PGI's group who has achieved it. The first is Karl.

[Brilig]

How bad is the hit detection with SRMs? Is that really whats causing them problems?

[Tekadept]

I love how they made a poll asking for the community feedback.. Last time I remember a poll being done on 3pv, we were told we are a small minority and our votes dont count in anyway towards the direction of the game.. What has changed??

How is the "majority of your playerbase" going to react to the change us minority want for srms?

[Nulnoil]

Very strange and not logically based system, looks like that rather than go the logical way and set size to each hardpoint, you went to the easiest way for you.

At first you introduced boat-variants like cplt-a1, hbk-4p, jm6-dd, all stalkers etc. And now you nerfed them all. Is this normal?

[Corvus Antaka]

FupDup, on 11 July 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

2 ERPPC + 2 PPC (40 point alpha) isn't going to get penalized until a later patch.

2 ERPPC + 1 Gauss is probably never going to get penalized.

alright mr psychic.

[Lindonius]

Arcturious, on 11 July 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

This however isn't the thread to discuss these issues as its for SRM damage discussion so I'll leave it there.

Is it? The thread title says HEAT SCALE and general update feedback. Nothing at all about buffing SRMS. I'm not exactly sure what that SRM poll is doing on this thread actually. I suggest that more monkeys have broken into PGI's offices and are rattling on the keyboards.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

That idea is simply stupid.
I have spoken.

[Ph30nix]

id rather you guys not implement a ******** game mechanic that this new scaling heat per weapon is.

no point in piloting my hunchback or blackjack 1x every again now.

[SirLagsalot]

So its ok for a PPC to wreck a mech 1km away with a few volleys with no worries about ammo or ammo explosions, but its not ok to wade through that PPC fire and get up close to do it with short ranged, limited ammo, weapons?

Edited by SirLagsalot, 11 July 2013 - 04:16 PM.

[Divine Retribution]

Yes increase SRM damage. If long range, pinpoint accurate weapons remain better brawling and close range weapons than weapons designed for brawling, then SRMs will remain pointless. If you have to run the gauntlet of PPC / ranged ballistics fire to get into weapons range, then surviving long enough to get into brawling range should do more than allow you to be evenly matched with the sniper in firepower while being more heavily damaged than the sniper.

SRMs shouldn't be 2.5 because of the A-1? Balancing SRMs based on the A-1 is the same as balancing PPCs for the 6 PPC Stalker. If the solution to balancing the 6 PPC Stalker is the group-fire heat penalty, then the same solution should be used for the A-1. Otherwise you might as well drop PPC damage to 5 for 3 months then buff it to 7, so it still can't core a properly armored Atlas in 3 shots (but it would be nearly cored). I think that is comparable to what SRMs have been going through. Right now you are applying both solutions (limiting damage and using heat penalties) to SRMs alone. I'm willing to give 2 damage SRMs a shot, but I think 2.2 (double LRM damage) is in order to support my first point (and at some point the return of splash damage).

*Disclaimer- I do not own or operate an A-1, nor is it my intention to do so in the future. However my C-4 will be affected by the double impact of limiting SRM damage and the boating heat penalty. Some day I'd really like to run my C-4 again with 4 SRM-6s that do more than look useful.*

[FupDup]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 11 July 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

alright mr psychic.

Alright mr white knight.

[Flying Blind]

Ok hold on a second, why are lrm15 the only ones to get a max alpha? 3 lrm15 gets me a penalty but 6 lrm10 doesn't? What about 3 lrm 20? Nothing? Guess I just don't use lrm 15 anymore? Why not just say no more than 30 missiles?

[Ryvucz]

I'm not particularly happy with where this poll is going.

Of course the "splatcat" users want more damage overall.

Especially when you REWARD high damage with C-Bills and XP.

[Ryvucz]

Flying Blind, on 11 July 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

Ok hold on a second, why are lrm15 the only ones to get a max alpha? 3 lrm15 gets me a penalty but 6 lrm10 doesn't? What about 3 lrm 20? Nothing? Guess I just don't use lrm 15 anymore? Why not just say no more than 30 missiles?

Funny story, but if they changed the launcher tubes to actually be what you place in versus max 15 on almost every single launcher mech, it could fix this.

[hammerreborn]

Lindonius, on 11 July 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

OMG you're actually going through with this??? I thought you had come to your senses and realised that this mechanic is completely counter-intuitive for the new players that you so desperately crave?

[redacted]

[redacted]

PS - I especially love how you released a "champion mech" that you charged real money for and then nerfed it into uselessness less than a month later. Well played.

PPS - I also absolutely GUARANTEE that you're gonna cattle truck this up in it's implementation as well and that we see hordes of heat issues with weapon loadouts that are supposed to be unaffected by your new clown shoes system.

How is the hunchback 4P killed by this? I'm genuinely curious.

[FupDup]

hammerreborn, on 11 July 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

How is the hunchback 4P killed by this? I'm genuinely curious.

Because it will have to stagger its already spread-out damage (beam duration combined with multiple groups after the change). Spread out damage is a big no-no.

[ithilkir]

The problem with the boating penalties is that it doesn't actually impact the core problem which is pinpoint alphas. Adding more heat just means more time between shots but not everyone in a team will be hiding behind cover for the same length of time together, there will still be constant alphas into torsos from 700m+ away. Even if you actually close the gap to avoid it becoming a sniper fest you'll still get destroyed since they're as effective brawler weapons as they are snipers.

Fixes very little and the experienced player knows how minimise the impact of the changes simply by swapping a weapon around or even just being more patient with shots.

[hammerreborn]

FupDup, on 11 July 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Because it will have to stagger its already spread-out damage (beam duration combined with multiple groups after the change). Spread out damage is a big no-no.

So? Use 3 small lasers and be better heat efficient. Christ, people will complain about everything.