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#301 Tyr Gunn

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:23 PM

I'm always so very delighted by the "dwindling community" argument. Talk about precious little gems. Here is some news for you, it's blatantly untrue. Yet, it keeps getting touted by the same segment of the community; disgruntled players. It certainly stands to reason that if you count yourself among a group of people that are unhappy with a product, you might find your little fiefdom shrinking rapidly.

Let me say that a different way. The community of haters is shrinking, but that doesn't mean the community at large feels that loaf getting pinched off.

More than 4000 players purchased Sarah's mech in a little over 24 hours. If you think that 4000 represents a large percentage of this community, you need to research some of the socioeconomic aspects of charity in communities. Typically, charity represents a very small percentage of a community. That's no different for this community. We're not that special!

You say the game's community is dwindling, based on what? Your hyper accurate, mathematically sound and scientific analysis? Or nonsense you heard spouted by haters surrounded by other haters?

When you spout unproven nonsense to support your weak argument, it doesn't help you.

The fact is, only PGI and IGP have any knowledge of the player base numbers. And they don't seem too terribly conscerned about them. We'll see how strong of a marketing push the lay down come launch.

Face it, haters are a vocal minority here. And most people that want to point out how wrong you are, generally avoid the fight. The response to the few of us that have stood up and said anything is a pretty clear indication of why that is. Admittedly, arguing with you lot is pretty pointless. Kinda like arguing with a two year old in the midst of a tantrum. Ultimately pointless.

Edit: spelling. Wouldn't want the really intelligent among you to discredit my entire point because I used "to" instead of "too".

Edited by Tyr Gunn, 24 July 2013 - 01:28 PM.


#302 MechFrog1

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:26 PM

View PostOsis, on 24 July 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:


I could care less
ok

View PostTyr Gunn, on 24 July 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Ultimately pointless.
The only one here spewing hate is you. Calm down and realize that you're ranting about players getting together to talk about the game.

Edited by mint frog, 24 July 2013 - 01:29 PM.


#303 Stalkerr

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:31 PM

Wow, this thread.

So I wanted to update everyone. We currently have 25 units and leagues signed up to present at #saveMWO, and a ton more who will be sending reps to attend and listen in. I'll update this post with the full list when I get home, but we've got representation from nearly every major unit in MWO, from all sides, including some units that have never gotten along like this before. Including the reps who will be attending, but not speaking, #saveMWO represents over 5000 active Mechwarrior Online players. That is huge, and you guys are making it possible. Here's a sampling of the groups:
  • Death's Hand Brigade
  • cReddit
  • KONG
  • Word of Lowtax
  • QQ Mercs (rep. Homeless Bill)
  • Shieldwall of Rasalhague
  • Zero Fox Mercs
  • Smoke Jaguar Reborn
  • Eridani Light Pony Merc Corp
  • Clan Snow Raven
  • Clan Jade Falcon
  • Proxis League
  • Inner Sphere Wars League
  • ...and more awesome merc units, house units and leagues representing nearly all perspectives from the community.
If you aren't already a part of this, but want to attend yourself or with your unit, PM me and I'll get you set up with the details.

Edited by Stalkerr, 24 July 2013 - 01:32 PM.


#304 Chronojam

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:41 PM

A lot of former in-game enemies on that list. I'm hoping we'll be able to pull a lot of retired MechWarriors out to come participate in the discussion, even if they won't start playing again until meaningful fixes are implemented.

#305 Tarquinn

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:47 PM

Then attend the meeting and present your facts and opinions.

#306 Sealawyer

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:48 PM

Here is hoping this goes well and is productive. I know I will be going along with Lord Ikka from my unit. Looking forward to it.

#307 Victor Morson

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:49 PM

View PostDisasterMedic, on 24 July 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

That might help you. Second: While I Am a Fan of Unnecessary CAPITALIZATION, it seems you have no conception of what an Open Beta Test is supposed to be, or a Beta Test in general.


What a beta that's two months from release is not supposed to be is going backwards, adding massively complex systems, or missing major release-day content. We should be in polish mode.

So while many people might not know what a beta is, neither does anyone involved with MW:O.

We're going backwards in the final mile, and that's why we're having this meeting.

#308 Victor Morson

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:50 PM

View PostColonelKiel, on 24 July 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

The tone of these threads kills me.

The assumption that PGI is ignoring the community and the way anyone who disputes that "fact" gets shouted down by the mob kills me.


Go read The Maths thread and tell me you can say that with a straight face.

Also we've been saying the same thing for over a year and they continue to screw it up.

Edited by Victor Morson, 24 July 2013 - 01:51 PM.


#309 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:51 PM

View PostTyr Gunn, on 24 July 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Laughable! I am calm. And sincerely, I'm not hateful of the haters. Just intolerant of them. To a fault. I appreciate that a group is prepared to get together and come up with some solutions. That's considerably better than complaining a out it without offering a solution.

The problem I have with the tone of most here have, is that the facts are being misrepresented. The community is not in dire straights.

If the community is not in "dire straits", then you can mobilize the community and let them get to event, so the voice is heard and their point is made.

That's the only way you can avoid this to become an echo chamber of the nay-sayers. Maybe you can't convince them all, but you can convince no one if you're not there. The lack of dissenting voices will just be seen as proof that you're wrong.

#310 Stalkerr

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:53 PM

View PostTyr Gunn, on 24 July 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

The problem I have with the tone of most here have, is that the facts are being misrepresented. The community is not in dire straights.


I wouldn't have kicked this off, and we wouldn't have this kind of participation, if the community wasn't at a crossroads of some kind. Dire straights? Maybe not. I can tell you, as a leader of one of the (if not the) biggest MWO groups, that groups everywhere have been hemorrhaging members for a good part of this year. These aren't just my observations... almost universally, I've been confronted with group leaders who are desperately trying to keep their units together, but the game just isn't fun anymore. You may not be able to see it, but from where I'm sitting there is and has been a problem. I'm just sorry we didn't do this event sooner.

That being said, thank you for your frank and honest feedback. You're welcome to attend #saveMWO, and I hope to see you there.

#311 Victor Morson

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:54 PM

View PostStalkerr, on 24 July 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

If you aren't already a part of this, but want to attend yourself or with your unit, PM me and I'll get you set up with the details.


You can count the Blazing Aces in too, at least some of my guys will be there!

PS: Will we be recording? I think it'd be a huge help to get this on youtube following the meeting.

#312 Chronojam

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

View PostVictor Morson, on 24 July 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:


You can count the Blazing Aces in too, at least some of my guys will be there!

PS: Will we be recording? I think it'd be a huge help to get this on youtube following the meeting.


Unless we're all asleep at the wheel, there will be an official recording available.

#313 Stalkerr

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:57 PM

View PostVictor Morson, on 24 July 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

You can count the Blazing Aces in too, at least some of my guys will be there!

PS: Will we be recording? I think it'd be a huge help to get this on youtube following the meeting.


That's awesome, Victor! Thank you!

We will be streaming the whole thing on Soundcloud, and also recording it. The crack VCRS production team (ok, really just Allen Wren) may take a stab at cutting it into a highlights reel for easier consumption (2 hours is a looooong audio segment).

Also, I ran into some internet radio dudes who have contacted me as part of this event and have offered to stream it. If you're reading this, I will probably try to rope you all in to helping with the audio portion.

#314 Victor Morson

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:58 PM

View PostStalkerr, on 24 July 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

I'm just sorry we didn't do this event sooner.


We kept hoping that people asking for the same things over and over would eventually be heard and just assumed they were dragging their feet.

Then that heat system came out and exposed the fact that they weren't just slow, they had absolutely no idea what's going on. The heat system is important not just because it is bad, and it is, but what it signifies about the understanding of those balancing this game.

An hour of messing with an XML file and a few days of testing is all we need to fix gameplay, combined with the outright removal of some of these poorly thought out systems. (I really, really want to see Arm Lock dead already too - does anyone remember back when gun/torso mounted arms were a huge deal and a big consideration in mech design? AKA before arm lock?)

#315 chewie

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:03 PM

I cant speak for the rest of the command group, but I personally won't be there, but thanks for the offer. Us euro's need our beauty sleep it seems.


On the whole subject of how things are and the amount of players who are getting fed up, yes something does need doing about the state of the game.

Changing weapons values and adding in strange methods of calculating heat per amount of weapons fired, is never going to be the answer.

We could really do with some updated and new features, which official posts have mentioned will be coming as part of the UI2.0 update. That should be a good thing. Not that I think it will help bring players back though.

Why?
I've seen a few of my fellow players move off and play other stuff of late, because things are no longer interesting. Its all wash, rinse, repeat endlessly.

Adding new game modes can't help because despite everything that has been talked about, because there are 2 key issues that can and will never ever be resolved the way things are going right now.

I'm sorry if some have seen me say these things before and that I am a broken record on such things, but its because I BELIEVE that these are genuine things to fix the game.


When the game first went closed beta, there were fairly large issues over boating weapons and how those weapons worked when used against a target.
They got *fixed*, and people stopped *exploiting* them.

In fact you squawkers used these a lot yourselves. In this case, namely the wonderful flamerBacks. We all remember those now don't we guys and girls.

They were something that needed fixing.

Then came the dreaded gaussapults. Again probably the best design at the time for sheer punch and damage while staying at maximum range.

PGI listened and then *fixed* them. Now they don't get used quite so much in that mech, in fact overall use of gauss has probably dropped to a normal level since that change.


Now I can go on listing the various faults and quirks about how weapons are boated and OP and the rest.

But there's no need. We all know what they are.



I like that an outspoken group that is more famous for making themselves a pain the arse than for being a help to anything or anyone but themselves, are trying to bring a group of us together for a confab before passing concerns on to PGI.
And we can all see why this is odd for everyone else because based on whats gone before, who in their right mind would trust you guys.

Its like trusting Maximillian Liao with the safety of a babies lollypop. It aint gonna happen. He's gonna snatch it and claim it was his to begin with.


Anyway, I digress.

People boat because they can.
You can't change that, and you can't educate them to use a balanced build because it just doesn't kill fast enough.
The only way to stop them boating is to take away the mechbay as we know it.

Some call it hardcore mode, playing stocks. Me, I call it sensible because you won't then get monster builds that are pointless beyond *hah I got me another kill boys!!!*

You know the type. 6ppc stalkers etc.

People use it because they can. And then the game gets unbalanced because you see lots of these stupid, yet effective builds. And it gets old and boring, and people complain about balance, so pgi *tweak* the weapons to make them less uber etc etc.



To realllly get things balanced and interesting you have to address just 2 things.

The person building the loadout.
The mechlab that allows them to build that loadout.

If pgi had given us a full lab where we weren't constrained by certain weapon types in certain locations, eg you could have your 400xl atlas with mediums lasers in every free slot you had, then yea, things would likely be even worse.

And on top of that, you wouldn't need all the different chassis. You could get away with different weights because outwardly, the chassis would just be eye candy because the weapons would be whatever folks wanted.

So, I really don't know how they can fix what they have created. Because in giving the gamers what they have, what they almost wanted. they most surely have given out the stick that is being used to beat them with.



In the time It's taken me to write this, 8 other posts have been submitted, so I better finish up.


How would I get around our issues... This.

2 game modes.
1)
Community Warfare. Planetary conquest, much like it was during MPBT3025. With Stock chassis. Why stock, because we have enough variants that we don't need to run modified mechs for that sort of game mode. chassis for chassis and variant for variant, MWO has more mechs than MPBT did back in 2000/01. But it did fine (up until EA chose a driving game that is instead).

2)
Solaris.
If you own the chassis that you use in CW game, then you can go fight in solaris 7 style games. Or basically games like you have now. And be able to modify your mech to run how you want. Because its solaris. And anything goes on the games world.

3)
Rankings. We have *newbie mods* to help get you to your first bought mech, eg increased xp and C-Bills etc.
Lets again revisit MPBT. Put rankings in, so that if you want to run a certain mech, you have to earn your way to it. Start in a light, every 100k xp, or even 1mill xp, you get to progress up the weight class in 5t increments.
You got your starter mech of choice from the 25t bracket back then, and when you earned enough CBills and had passed the experience threshold, you could get something better.


Get something like this going, and then you can drop the silly elo's and all the rest which aren't really working to balance out the games.


wow, 21 posts in total since I started.

I'll wait and see just what happens from all this.

#316 Stalkerr

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:05 PM

Thanks, Chewie. I appreciate you jumping in on this. Can I pull your points together and present them on ya'lls behalf if a rep from your side isn't able to make it? Also, can I count on you all to consider signing on to the #saveMWO Action Letter?

Edited by Stalkerr, 24 July 2013 - 02:06 PM.


#317 MechFrog1

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:09 PM

Quote

And we can all see why this is odd for everyone else because based on whats gone before, who in their right mind would trust you guys.
Because even if you don't trust us, this is a public forum and deep down, we're all MWO fans who want the game to succeed. We don't have to trust each other. All we have to do is talk and PGI will listen.

#318 chewie

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

View Postmint frog, on 24 July 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Because even if you don't trust us, this is a public forum and deep down, we're all MWO fans who want the game to succeed. We don't have to trust each other. All we have to do is talk and PGI will listen.


Agreed.

#319 Ramblin

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:25 PM

yea but, someone should mention a lobby...

#320 BFett

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:50 PM

Yeah, a lobby would be nice but lets work on the easiest to code issues first and them move on to the more complex ones.



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