341 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

XphR, on 28 July 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

I liked it for ya.

You stomped the four of us (screaming in skype the whole time).. and you dont even remember. Im saddened.

Definite props to all the people currently bucking the meta and playing mediums and lights, huge breath of fresh air.

[PropagandaWar]

Erghiez06, on 27 July 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

tl:dr - (nutshell) Premades can render the game un-fun for others, and the state of communication in Pug games is too slow to give even a remote chance of countering a well organized premade.


I understand that this is a team based game, and that it is currently in Beta, but this is just ridiculous. Now I can't argue the effectiveness of such a tactic, or the possible fun. I have to be honest with myself and submit to the idea that I would most likely have enjoyed myself if I was on the other side of the fence, but I'd also have to be aware of how unbalanced and unfair this is.

This isn't as much a rant, or tantrum as it is a question of balance and concern for the current state of the game. Take for a moment the inability for our group to coordinate our efforts due to a lack of immediate communication options aside from third party software or services, which would of course require people to submit to the same unbalanced tactic. I Pug 99% of the games that I play. I've only played a handful of games with members found via the popular Teamspeak server advertised on these forums. It works, but it does take some time to find a group willing to knowingly take on a newer player. I've tried and I usually hear talk of things such as 'ELO' and whatnot. As a new player I had to look up what ELO was and why it was a concern, and of course once I understood what it was I couldn't argue.

I have to agree with alot of posters that due to the current state of the game premade groups should only be matched with other premades until there is a better form of in-game communication or the ability to choose your Mech while the game start is pending. Thats just me, but I find this sort of issue gamebreaking as it makes it un-fun and not playable at times.

I need to start screen capping me pugging or a buddy and me with 8-0 wins. I also need to start screen capping my lance and another lance getting beat 8-0. It happens. It just does. It happens more when you see 3 assault mechs with less than 100 damage. oh wait a there you go victor doing under 100 damage a highlander doing 149. Pfft come on. Also no faction symbols across the board. You just got owned fair and square. It happens. Especially in situations where an assault cant clear 300. Oh then you see highlanders with 3 lrms and that's it. Great way to help your team. Or atli base capping instead of fighting. Yep saw that happen twice tonight. Sorry stupidy and bad luck cause those games not premades.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 28 July 2013 - 08:41 PM.

[KingCobra]

Erghiez
Premades can render the game un-fun for others, and the state of communication in Pug games is too slow to give even a remote chance of countering a well organized premade.


I understand that this is a team based game, and that it is currently in Beta, but this is just ridiculous. Now I can't argue the effectiveness of such a tactic, or the possible fun. I have to be honest with myself and submit to the idea that I would most likely have enjoyed myself if I was on the other side of the fence, but I'd also have to be aware of how unbalanced and unfair this is.

This isn't as much a rant, or tantrum as it is a question of balance and concern for the current state of the game. Take for a moment the inability for our group to coordinate our efforts due to a lack of immediate communication options aside from third party software or services, which would of course require people to submit to the same unbalanced tactic. I Pug 99% of the games that I play. I've only played a handful of games with members found via the popular Teamspeak server advertised on these forums. It works, but it does take some time to find a group willing to knowingly take on a newer player. I've tried and I usually hear talk of things such as 'ELO' and whatnot. As a new player I had to look up what ELO was and why it was a concern, and of course once I understood what it was I couldn't argue.

I have to agree with alot of posters that due to the current state of the game premade groups should only be matched with other premades until there is a better form of in-game communication or the ability to choose your Mech while the game start is pending. Thats just me, but I find this sort of issue gamebreaking as it makes it un-fun and not playable at times.

Well Mr. OP welcome to MWO=MOST WANT OUT of this game the reason being overpowered mechs that kill everyone in 10 seconds and this is made even worse by premade teams boating the same configurations on there mechs over and over each match. In the older MechWarrior games you could build and save configurations in mechlab so it was easy to pick a different load-out per battle based on the map. Now everyone just min-maxes the weapons and load-outs to produce the biggest DPS or alpha shot for there mechs and play that configuration every map. And yes a lot of us have tried to help PGI and MWO but we only get silence and multiple bugs and heartaches per patch. And yes the game does become quite un-fun after 100 matches. And to all the players on your topic that say your opinion does not mean anything just tell them to F-OFF. Play the game if you want or don't PGI will figure it out when there bank account starts to read-$0USD.

[Adridos]

One Medic Army, on 28 July 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

People are against in-game VoiP?

Apparently.

[Stelar 7]

Fulcrom Kerensky, on 28 July 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

I really don't understand why so many people are against integrated, in-game, voice communication. I'm pretty sure you will be able to disable it if you don't want it, as is in the current options. So whats the real reason you don't want it in-game? That's all I want to know.

Erata, on 28 July 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Because camera shake gives them motion sickness. WINK!

I don't know why they fear it either. I guess they fear that the UI options for muting will be poor or something.
The overall benefit of in-game voice is positive and has been for.. probably every team-based video game ever made.

Adridos, on 28 July 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

I don' want to ***** on people, but the only logical answer is that they don't want to loose their unfair advantage... not like most pgus will never touch the VoiP, but it's fair to give them that option and not tell them, this is a team game, but you mustn't work as a team, that's against the rules. For that, you have to buy your own server and download a ******* 3rd party application.

That is some impressive straw mech you three are beating. Where, anywhere, did anyone say they don't want in game coms added? Seriously, the closest objection I saw was that it should not detract from bug hunts or balancing. It shouldn't.

The level of psychic powers some of you are using, reading the minds of other players and the composition of other lances in terms of the use of third party software is ridiculous. Your text based psychoanalysis is also right up here with phrenology and hollow core earth theories for it's argumentative validity.

What people are objecting to is removing pug players from the ques with 2 3 and 4 man teams. The population will not support that kind of splintering. It might when we get live. Personally I would think you would want to drop 4 and 4 pugs and premade that way new players can learn from those who have played cooperatively both by direct shared combat and by ghosting with them after you die.

Seriously, UI 2.0 is incoming and I expect we will see more team tactical tools.

Edited by Stelar 7, 28 July 2013 - 09:03 PM.

[KingCobra]

Stelar 7, on 28 July 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

That is some impressive straw mech you three are beating. Where, anywhere, did anyone say they don't want in game coms added? Seriously, the closest objection I saw was that it should not detract from bug hunts or balancing. It shouldn't.

The level of psychic powers some of you are using, reading the minds of other players and the composition of other lances in terms of the use of third party software is ridiculous. Your text based psychoanalysis is also right up here with phrenology and hollow core earth theories for it's argumentative validity.

What people are objecting to is removing pug players from the ques with 2 3 and 4 man teams. The population will not support that kind of splintering. It might when we get live. Personally I would think you would want to drop 4 and 4 pugs and premade that way new players can learn from those who have played cooperatively both by direct shared combat and by ghosting with them after you die.

Seriously, UI 2.0 is incoming and I expect we will see more team tactical tools.

Normally I would agree with you but new players are getting killed so fast in normal pug battles its insane and then you add in premade teams and they die in 1-2 shots. Please Stelar 7 tell us what a new player is going to learn in 10 seconds of game play? that's about how long they live per battle I know I pug and play on a huge premade team and I can tell you im surprised we even have 100,000 players playing this game. PGI needs to turn the game around to a skill based game not a ALPHA WARRIOR ONLINE game.

[XphR]

No Guts No Glory, on 28 July 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Care to enlighten us all on how you know?

And I'll say this here too:

All PGI has to do is have MM force a similar number of grouped players onto each team with groups being indicated in the scoreboard. They can then remove group size restriction. Doesn't split the player base so no terrible queue times. Players can drop with any number of friends. There is no valid argument anyone can make against this.

Bront, on 28 July 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

I've been part of one of those (random Jenner Lance), and that was before the Sarah mech showed up.

When I get a PUG that works togeather, it works quite well. When I don't, even if I'm in a premade (Admiteedly, a lot of 2-3 man premades, occasionally a 4) you can't always just roll.

That said, how are they supposed to handle a group of 2-3 friends who want to play togeather? Force them to join a team of 8 (and find one)? or fill in their group with PUGs/other groups (I've seen a few 3 lance drops before)?

This please! So many times we have six or seven friends available from our pool of pilots. Occasionally we are able to find a loose player or two from one of our in game friends lists.. but generally these guys are trying to run in numbers as well. Creating balanced launch groups becomes a nightmare! They need to at the very least test the game with lonewolf to twelve man as an option and a secondary lonewolf only pool.

One Medic Army, on 28 July 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

Definite props to all the people currently bucking the meta and playing mediums and lights, huge breath of fresh air.

Dont give me too much props without fair warning, >_<
You will see me strut my stuff in my HM (not taking a shot at anyones throne, just my personal best operation in action{funny story Im a light pilot by license}) and I got three stalkers to master ~the unspoken build~ (because I enjoy it{even currently}) but kept the other two because I fell in love with them(of course they also do a lot better than the x6{as they are more flexible}). It is true though the majority of my early stable is lights (in the yes dear I spent moar money on parking spaces for that mech laser game kind of way{dont get me started on colour expenditures, no really dont she may be reading }) I do love catapults and die as I do... love my dragons.. but ask anyone thats run with me, In the big Mechs I marvel at the view from my seat(thinking "so this is what the tops of their kneecaps look like!").

Seriously though.. when we run in groups, sometimes the other lance cooperates and sometimes they dont(sometimes we are the lance not cooperating{we have character flaws sue us}). It does not always control the outcome, but we dont always really take advantage of it either. But I guess Im saying..

Plus One for integrated VOIP and 1-12 man launching.

C3 is cute and has nifty options and toys with zero in game integration (and its got to be stripped down), its literally easier to pick up a pug, find out if he has skype, ts3, mumble or vent (if not we see if they would be interested in aid downloading/installing one{we do also have c3 but its fallen fairly far back on importance}) and as a last resort we run with people that follow visual cues and type occasionally..






Im going to sleep...

[Lightfoot]

Once we have CW that's where the pre-mades or player Merc Units will be playing mostly. They will get better rewards for their Units is why. CW will change alot of things. You will probably join a Merc unit too.

[PropagandaWar]

One Medic Army, on 28 July 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

Definite props to all the people currently bucking the meta and playing mediums and lights, huge breath of fresh air.

HA lights. Well spiders are bugged as hell anyway. With over 945 registered games in my hunchback sp and more than 600 matches between it and any other mech I have I would have to say I never bucked that trend, nor have half my crows. Then again we are a medium/heavy lance focusing on the mediums as the main body.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 28 July 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[No Guts No Glory]

The only lights I give people props for using are the Raven 2x and 4x.

[YueFei]

I've been part of PUGs that stomped the other team 8 to 0 or 8 to 1. It happens.

One time I was part of a PUG that won 8 to 1 on Alpine starting from the west base. I knew it was a PUG because at the beginning of the match everyone was throwing ideas around in text chat, and we continued to use the text chat to communicate during the match. The other team was just dumb. They sat passively behind a mountain and showed no initiative. It gave us all the time in the world to come up with a plan and coordinate the timing using slow-as-heck text chat. It also helped that we had some hotshot light mech pilots on our team. We had target boxes on the other team even before we broke from cover to shoot them.

[Khobai]

4-mans should not be allowed to queue with pugs. They have an overwhelming advantage in being able to communicate with eachother and knowing what their builds are ahead of time. 4-mans should be forced into the group queue with 8-mans.

The biggest group you should be allowed to have in the pug queue is 2. Because even 3 is arguably too good.

[Cirran]

Hmm, premades players. How big would the population have to be before you would support a separate solo mm?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Miekael, on 27 July 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

In game Voip, really PGI, catch up to the 21st century of gaming.

This is not the solution. Hell I play PUGs specifically because I don't want to deal with people via voice yelling and screaming orders at me what to do. That is the problem in a nut shell, PUGers want to PUG, we don't want to join a team or deal with orders, we just want to log into a game, have fun and enjoy ourselves.

[ArmandTulsen]

What the hell has 1080 LRMs?!

[Taemien]

One thing I hope the UI 2.0 does is show the end state of all mechs that were in play. Sort of like MechCommander did it. Matches in MechCommander ended very much like they do here in MWO. With the winning team with 0-2 mechs down with the losing team having all mechs destroyed.

However it showed that the winning team also had 4-5 crippled mechs. Either no weapons or very near destruction.

See not every 8-0 is a stomp. There might be 3-4 mechs on the winning team severely damaged, legged, or disarmed. I know I will ignore a mech that is not a threat, such as a legged and disarmed heavy. Just because it isn't killed doesn't mean it wasn't messed the heck up.

MWO has no respawn, because of this 8-0, 8-1, and 8-2 victories are going to be common. And 8-7, 8-6 ones are going to be rare by comparison.

Personally I've had some really close games that ended 8-2. For example, a buddy and I were running as a duo and ran behind enemy lines to ambush snipers and missile boats. We killed 2 mechs really well without taking much damage, at the same time our team was fighting their own 6v6 while we did our 2v2. By the time we got to engage the other 6 mechs, they had wiped out our team 6-0. There was no premade on the enemy team, just got lucky with trading blows. Course our two mechs weren't enough to take even one of them down, so it ended in 8-2, but was still rather close up till a certain point. But thats the nature of no respawn. Losing even one mech could be devastating.

[Purlana]

Viktor Drake, on 29 July 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

This is not the solution. Hell I play PUGs specifically because I don't want to deal with people via voice yelling and screaming orders at me what to do. That is the problem in a nut shell, PUGers want to PUG, we don't want to join a team or deal with orders, we just want to log into a game, have fun and enjoy ourselves.

So basically nerf teamwork?

Edited by Purlana, 29 July 2013 - 04:25 AM.

[Kunae]

Erghiez06, on 27 July 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

tl:dr - (nutshell) Premades can render the game un-fun for others, and the state of communication in Pug games is too slow to give even a remote chance of countering a well organized premade.


I understand that this is a team based game, and that it is currently in Beta, but this is just ridiculous. Now I can't argue the effectiveness of such a tactic, or the possible fun. I have to be honest with myself and submit to the idea that I would most likely have enjoyed myself if I was on the other side of the fence, but I'd also have to be aware of how unbalanced and unfair this is.

This isn't as much a rant, or tantrum as it is a question of balance and concern for the current state of the game. Take for a moment the inability for our group to coordinate our efforts due to a lack of immediate communication options aside from third party software or services, which would of course require people to submit to the same unbalanced tactic. I Pug 99% of the games that I play. I've only played a handful of games with members found via the popular Teamspeak server advertised on these forums. It works, but it does take some time to find a group willing to knowingly take on a newer player. I've tried and I usually hear talk of things such as 'ELO' and whatnot. As a new player I had to look up what ELO was and why it was a concern, and of course once I understood what it was I couldn't argue.

I have to agree with alot of posters that due to the current state of the game premade groups should only be matched with other premades until there is a better form of in-game communication or the ability to choose your Mech while the game start is pending. Thats just me, but I find this sort of issue gamebreaking as it makes it un-fun and not playable at times.

Alpha lance, on your team, was a premade, as well. They just sucked.

People need to get off their high horse about "oooh, the mean ol' dreaded premades".

There are only good players, and not. Dropping as a group, with or without voice-comms, doesn't make players better. Horrible players dropping solo are just as bad when dropping in a group with other mentally challenged folk, on voice comms. You just happened to draw the "short bus" "premade", that match.

Edited by Kunae, 29 July 2013 - 04:30 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

I'm alittle confused, as I don't see how viop or Ts3 is going to be of any use whatsoever in PUGs other than give the self righteous the abilityto yell at others..rather than have to type so I'd rather it was never in..

you want this option go join a clan go use the TS3 or viop they have supplied or even get a team and use the one that PGI HAVE supplied, it just takes a bit of setting up and isn't handed to people on a plate.

You even get told about this app in the tool tips on the match log in screen

Seriously viop/ts isn't going to make pugs work any better because why should anyone pay attention to some person they have never met that thinks they have the Napoleon touch.

If I want to play leader I'll create my own company/regiment if I want to join an established one, i'll join one of the many and take orders from its officers, as part of the understanding of whats required.

What I will not do is take instruction from the anonymous jerks like I had the dubious pleasure of just now, who's first text words to the team was "KEEP F*%^ING LOCKS", and only otherwords were "fail team" after he'd caused a massive 170 damage lol.

Edit

To make clear that if the OP thinks the capitals are directed at him, they're not but at those people that have been telling others how wrong it is to not have this option allready installed to use at a click of one button.

Its there just you have to have friends on your list and to add them when on line, and you down load the viop app

viop is there it even has pretty pictures of mecha, just doesn't currently work for single people dropping and all I can say is good, because I want to play and not deal with the leroy jenkins of this world rage quitting and insulting people in stereo

Edited by Cathy, 29 July 2013 - 05:39 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Most premades will give a friendly hello and warn the other team before the match starts so that some fearmongering pug on the other side doesn't cause half his team to quit. The rest of the premades that sneak into pugs just to stomp people can diaf.