342 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

Dozier, on 01 August 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Battlegrid is cut in half, not sure how was tested at all without noticing that.

Someone didn't read the "known issues" list before posting.... ;-)

Drove an Ilya. I think if you want to make it more new player friendly, it needs to be a bit further back so they can see the legs/ground that the mech is on, and the map should at least have the map and mech orientation indicators on it. That way the new player can correlate the mech movements with the indicators. Leave off the seismic indicators and enemy mech positions. Friendly mech positions may be ok though.

[Tsula]

Witch mechs used: Catapult -K2 , Jenner D, Stalker 3F

Improvements: seem ok still like my 1PV. honestly its just feel more off, but it does give a slight understanding to torso and leg movement. Also the FOV is still to much Info and easy to see alot around you. I think if you zoom in once that feels the closes to no added advantage. Pop tarting is easier and needs to be address and all. Feels really jerky to me thou do not like it.

Lag on light mech is crazy and over all feel makes it feel as thou outer body feeling not really smooth. can really describe it .

[Shakespeare]

Waking One, on 01 August 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Idea:

make it so you choose which view mode you drop in and then you're stuck in it, so no "play in 1st person but switch to third to see around corners" stupidity

alternatively, give it a cooldown

Agree. Increasing time for switching, or mandating one selected mode per match, will cut down on edge cases and 'quick checks'. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Or camera, as it were.

[MercJ]

shellashock, on 01 August 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

From what I have played, the FOV needs to be locked for 3rd person view or it provides a massive advantage. It doesn't matter too much for 1st person view, but FOV HAS to be locked for 3rd person.

Second, the transfer from 1st person to 3rd person needs to be a bit more realistic. If anyone has played the Modern Warfare series, then they surely would know how a predator missile works. You open a laptop, it blacks out for a sec, and when the missile detonates the screen goes all staticy for 1.5 seconds and then returns to normal view. I propose we do something similar.

When you launch the drone, it says launching drone on a black screen for 1 - 1.5 seconds.*
When you try to call it back in, it says retrieving drone on a black screen for 1 - 1.5 seconds.*
...
Edit- loving the blinking.

Roadkill, on 01 August 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

All of which vanish the instant you turn it off. Yet the knowledge you gained by peaking over the wall without anyone being able to shoot at you is still valuable. Scouts will use 3PV to be invulnerable observers. Jump snipers will use it to know when to jump and which direction to be looking when they jump, then they'll turn it off to jump and shoot. The tactical advantages of 3PV are many and there's no down side because you can just turn it off when you no longer need its advantages.

ShadowVFX, on 01 August 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

This.

I think this is very important. Choosing the right time to transition from one mode to the other (so you can't continually quick-check the minimap) is important.

I bolded the parts above for emphasis. I think adding a delay here would be the best solution to a lot of concerns. The implementation of 3PV is actually pretty good, and adding this delay would serve to avoid the things most people are afraid of (jump snipers, gaining a visual advantage). The best part is it makes sense that it would take some time for a little drone to deploy in the "Mechwarrior universe", although arguing "realism" is folly anyway However, see the Switchblade and Raven - not the mech, the drone used in the military that can fit in a backpack. This is how I picture this system to work - for 3PV, you would need to "activate" your drone from in the cockpit, and wait for it to "deploy." This would only need to take a few seconds for it to became a strategic consideration, not something to be done just to see what's going on quick.

[Dataman]

EyeOne, on 01 August 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

THe most annoying thing I got from this was that 3PV will still be usable in "advanced" mode or whatever but it will just be destructible. Please, PGI, no 3PV in the advantaged or hardcore mode, please please please don't do it.

and I'm still confused by 'advance mode', 'regular mode', but he had to log off.
But It could be 1 thing. Everybody will get 3rd PV right away, even in default PUG vs PUG game.

[Yoshio Matsunaka]

Mech:Treb-3C 2xLRM15+A, 3ML, Tag (a simple mech I think new players would use)
Improvements:
1) Drone needs to be more fluid(known issue). I was running at 8-10fps and it was not usable.
2) Targeting is harder in 3PV, I was using LRMs and couldn't even keep locked-on while moving.
3) With Seismic nerf and 3PV, it does not help awareness. Using the drones is a huge distraction, allowing your situational awareness slip.
4) I could not get out 3PV easliy. Got shot in the back, started to move and 3PV would not disengage.

[Dracol]

Tested with a Dragon. In 3rd person view, every time I turned, my mech would be "twitchy" (low spec machine).

The drone is a great counter to the advantage jump snipers have. We can see you before you jump, just like you can see us before you do.

If you start seeing the drone move vertically, just aim slight above the ridge but just below the drone and in a moment you'll be able to pepper the jump sniper before their guns even clear the ridge.

With the drone and the lack of map, the advantages of 3rd person view are countered nicely.

Considering how it could have turned out, IMHO PGI did a decent job with this.

[Hauser]

Mechs used: SDR-5D, AWS-8T, HBK-4SP, AS7-D, JM-FB

Improvements: Camera movement seems especially slow on the 4SP. Arms are able to move faster then the camera, camera should be able to follow arms. Couldn't hit anything in the spider, aiming was too hard at high speeds. Would like cross hairs to move smoothly rather then follow terrain.

Other comments: Using LRMs was easier to get a lock and estimate distance to cover need to make the lrms clear it. Playing the Atlas was a pain in 3th person. Not having the situational awareness provided by map is very annoying.

Couldn't see legs in 3th person.

Gameplay was also still rather jagged.

Edited by Hauser, 01 August 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[Spurowny]

DRG-1c and CTF-3d

don't improve it. remove it.

[MrTarget]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?

JR7-D(S), HGN-733C, VTR-9K, SDR-5D

• What improvements would you like to see with 3rd person view?

Recital Snapping\teleporting fix


Things I Observed:
1. clipping to targets (which is bad)
2. Stand out like a Christmas tree with a big neon sign saying shoot all your weapons here when in 3PV due to the drone. (which is good)
3. Very Bouncy and a lot of limited movement and aiming. (which is good)
4. Very hard to see legs of some mechs making movement tricky and disorienting. (which is bad for new players)
5. Get to see the wings on the spider move about while JJ'ing (Which is cool!)

IMO 3PV is off to a good start, does what it says on the tin.

Would I use it? No, never liked the idea of 3PV

But tis fun to see your mech up close.

Edit
Also anyone notice there frame rate drop? My usual 60@ UH settings was down to 35-50 on medium!

Edited by MrTarget, 01 August 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[Punk Oblivion]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?

CDA-3C, JM6-DD, JM6-FB, AS7-D-DC

• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?

There was a "snapping/teleporting" of the aiming reticle when it crossed the edge of hills. This made fighting on or around hills very frustrating.

The only reason I ever really noticed the camera following people was the blinking red light, I think removing this would make the cameras less noticeable, if that is something that is desired.

• Any additional comments or concerns.

Anyone who says people using 3PV has an advantage is crazy. Any small advantages of being able to peak around corners or over hills is offset by the lack of a mini-map and a more difficult aiming set-up (I found it near impossible to brawl against lights/mediums in 3PV), as well as having a camera above you giving away your position.

3PV for me is a fun novelty option for seeing the game from a different perspective. Seeing weapons firing (AC's are exceptionally cool to watch) and weapons fire impact your mech from 3PV is neat, but in the end it is just that, a novelty option to play with when you are not needing to be super competitive.

[Verbrand]

Chasis used: various Centurions and Hunchbacks

I'd say exactly as it is it is fairly balanced.

Yes you can see over ridges and round corners a bit with it, but you also have the little light up drone above your head (with the camera in) and the lack of minimap while in 3rd person.

If it helps new players, but doesn't provide an advantage for the elite, then that's a good thing.

PGI have it spot on this time.

Also I did notice a massive drop in framerate on the test servers compared to the live ones. I'm talking 15-20 fps when I would usually get 25-40fps.

We also had a few weird dumps to mechlab when launching as a group. The screen would go black as if you had found a match then immediately dump everyone into mechlab.

Edited by Verbrand, 01 August 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[Karpundir]

MECHS USED: Raven 3L and Cataphract.

For question 2 "Tactical Advantage", there should be an option for 2 levels of "tactical disadvantage" (slight and major). No radar means you have much lesser situational awareness of your team and enemies, plus you cannot use Seismic Sensor without switching to 1st PV.

As for aiming, I think 1st PV is more accurate, especially considering the camera distance changes based on proximity of terrain to your rear. I have also noticed more screen bouncing than in 1st PV when walking over uneven terrain, especially at high speeds.

Pros:
- easier to build awareness of space between you and your teammates or structures. In running a light mech, urban warfare was easier to navigate in 3PV at high speeds.
- better understanding can be had for terrain changes and how it affects movement
- new players can gain better understanding of leg vs torso direction, especially when using JJs and turning mid-air
- increased awareness of attacks from the sides and rear

Cons:
- harder to aim (as stated above)
- no radar (comments as stated above)
- drone camera gives away position if hiding behind structures (also diminishes benefit of ECM for stealth)
- cannot gain benefit of Seismic Sensor in 3PV
- switching views takes a bit too long to view radar
- lagging more in 3PV

Also, a good amount of people I ran with got kicked to mech lab often during this test. Not sure if that is a programming issue or server end. Not my expertise here.

FPS is normally 59-60 (with V-sync) and in the test server it bounced between 43-56fps depending on the map.

Edited by Karpundir, 01 August 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Filter41]

1.) centurion (brawler), jager (brawler - sniper), cataphract (sniper), awesome (lrm-boat)
2.) yes you have slight to big improvements: much better situational awareness in brawl for piloting (you don't crash with other mechs so often, better planning of routes through the battlefield, etc.); as sniper you appreciate the additional information "around the corner" or for "poptarting"; the new "artillery reticule" is unusual but helps a lot: now you can be sure were you hit the enemy; no splash effects or smoke hide your view; big disadvantages are missing map (no seismic), permanent arm lock and conflict btwn reticule and lrm-lock;
3.)I like it very much! loved MechAssault(2) and played MW4 like this; Player with 1PV will have no chance against me in a mixed battle^^; the drone could show a bit more of the legs; the position of the camera drone should change with the height of the mech (awesome nearly overlays crosshair);
at last: I hope you split the queue and don't let people switch the perspective in a match like on test servers... best regards

Edited by Filter41, 01 August 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[superbob]

atlas rs
trial victor
firebrand
flame
jagemech dd

bad:
arm-lock in 3pv is too restrictive
targeting reticule jumps up and down when targeting different ranges
ambivalent:
lack of radar map is a severe hinderence
at times mech covers more screen than cockpit
good:
cant poptart effectively, mech covers up too much screen
I ended up being zoomed in most of the time, still hard to aim

overall:
3pv is hard
however, I can imagine some mastering it for an advantage - time will tell
it does help with situational awareness, if you pop in and out; 3pv/1pv has advantage over just using 1pv.
it makes it easier to acquire targets visually (see on screen what to shoot at) but harder to put reticule over them due to above stated reasons

I can see whiners either complaining about its shortcomings and saying dev time was wasted or focusing on miniscule advantages and saying it's OP.

finally:
IMO it is too early to tell. Aiming needs to be improved, it is frustrating to learn to the current system in 3pv. Although in its current form it definitely isn't very useful.

Technically it seems to be fine.

[Macheath]

Mechs Used:
Victor, Jӓgermech, Blackjack
What improvements would I like to see to 3PV?
Get rid of the annoying reticule “jitters”. While this appears to be an attempt to show where convergence will cause your weapons to hit, it does nothing more than distract the player.
Additional comments:
3PV seems to be far more balanced than I had anticipated; it offers situational advantages over first-person while having enough negative effects to discourage using it all of the time. Personally, I will be sticking with first-person for the foreseeable future, as always-on arm-lock is really annoying when all of your firepower is arm mounted.

[Taj]

Games in only 3PV are more interesting no PPL+Gauss pinpoint in XL, harder aim = more FUN !!

I got 1 battle where all 24 ppl was in 3PV and it was AWESOME game... cuz we rush them all in 1PV they would simply crush us but in 3PV was fun! more running then duck and cover with PPC+Gauss!

Fun... but if there is 4 or more ppl in 1PV with PPC can ruin the fun!

[Zerberus]

Niko Snow, on 31 July 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Please comment below with the following:

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?
  
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?
  
• Any additional comments or concerns.

1. Mostly a Catapult A-1 with an LRM loadout. Some time also spent in an AS7-D set up as a brawler w / LRM instead of srms.

2. I actually like the implementation but prefer 1PV myself.

I like that you can`t move your arms farther than your torso in 3PV
I like that you get no Minimap in 3PV
I like that you cannot spectate in 3PV.

I feel that adequately balances 3PV vs 1PV, as it also "robs" the 3PV player of features such as seismic or a "low signal" warning (other than the icon) as a tradeoff for his slightly better visual capability.


I have mixed feeling on ingame switching via hotkey.. I feel it should be an options setting at the least to minimize "corner camera" use.

However, a buddy noticed that on his mech, jumpsniping in 3PV was essentially entirely impossible because the mech covered the reticle while in the air. I could not reproduce the same phenomenon with my catapult, and feel that this should be standardized among jump capable mechs. Which "direction", all can see or noone can see, is IMO not really important.

3. Other than that specific detail, I would not be bothered in the least if this went live tomorrow. Assuming the LRM graphics are 86ed and the current ones remain.. part of the fun of the 3xLRM5 catapult is the crazy rainbow of missiles, which looked more like a few falling stars than rocket propelled grenades

Edited by Zerberus, 01 August 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[Noober]

Mechs Used: Jenner (D(S)), Spider (5D), Cicada (3M), Catapult (A1)

Improvement Suggestions:

Less screen shake: travel sickness and headaches may be a problem with the current level of screen movement.

Radar toggle: Situational awareness restricted by lack of radar.

FOV pulled back: view is too restrictive - seeing whole mech (legs too) + more of surroundings would help new players orientate themselves.

[t Khrist]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test? Catapult, Quickdraw, Cicada, Trebuchet
  
• Any additional comments or concerns. I had a huge issue with my cross hairs being "stuck on the ground". When attempting to aim up, the reticule wouldn't respond and kept me shooting at the ground, this was especially apparent when traversing rough terrain, and moving through caves. Next issue was when using faster mechs: there was A LOT of skipping/shaking of the entire mech, especially when jump jetting (and I'm not talking about the usual rumble). My roommate ran a spider and it was nearly impossible for him to play. I hate how noticable the drones are. Why does essentially a quad copter with a go pro on it need to be so huge and have a massive blinking light? It doesn't physically make sense. Moving on, I can understand where everyone who says 3rd person will make it unfair for fpv users is coming from, but at the moment, mechanically (and without the minimap) it is a huge disadvantage. My overall opinion is that 3rd and 1st person game modes should be completely separate. If the drone can't be destroyed then there's no sense in making the switch to 1st person an option. Different view, different game mode completely, it should be made that way. Why even give people the option in-game? If you launch a 3rd person mode, it should be that and only that, same with fpv.