342 replies to this topic

[Chuckie]

I think on the hud, over the icons for the caps there should be a E, A, T, etc.. since you don't have the map in 3rd person so at least you can stay oriented.

[ManusDei]

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test? heavy metal, Catapult A1
  
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?, get rid of it
  
• Any additional comments or concerns, I wanted to throw up everytime I turned left or right. I felt like throwing up, could only play 3 matches then quit because I had to go dry heav in the bathroom. 3rd person view makes me sick literally.

[Jetfire]

Victor and Jenner

A few points.
1. Seems to be some kind of snap to target aim in 3PV : This is not ok
2. Drones need to be destructible, larger and more visible light
3. There needs to be a time lag to switch modes at least 2-5 seconds
4. 3PV has too much FOV, yet too little to see legs, less intuitive to pilot than with minimap aid

Could be tuned to be acceptable, but as is it neither serves the intended purpose nor does it maintain game balance.

Edited by Jetfire, 01 August 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[Chuckie]

DCM Zeus, on 01 August 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

3PV CLEARLY has an advantage over 1PV and if you say otherwise you're either blind or just being willfully ignorant.

I put up the POS meter to show that the position was not changed going from 1PV to 3PV.

YES it has SOME advantages... BUT not having the map is a MAJOR DISADVANTAGE.... Its called BALANCE. I find myself in 1PV much more than 3PV. Otherwise its easy to get disoriented, especially in relationship to the rest of the units when your a scout. That said 3PV is nice in close combat.. BUT again you can miss things not having your map.

[Chazmatron]

Fun trying out 3PV. Mechs used: Heavy Metal, Founder's Jenner. Few notes:

1. Hiding Battlemap (or other parts of the HUD) is useless. Quick swapping between 3PV and 1PV shows it in full without actually leaving 3PV.

2. Situational awareness with regards to legs vs torso position is much improved! No more walking into obstacles in your blind spot and stopping dead in the middle of a brawl.

3. Jumpjetting and brawling is much improved due to point 2

4. It is very cool seeing your own mech while playing.

5. Being able to see over obstacles will definitely change the game immensely. For better or for worse remains to be seen.

6. Camera lags and jars on fast scouts, it gets a bit disorienting when doing fast manuevers.

Edited by Chazmatron, 01 August 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Shakespeare]

Jetfire, on 01 August 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Victor and Jenner A few points. 1. Seems to be some kind of snap to target aim in 3PV : This is not ok 2. Drones need to be destructible, larger and more visible light 3. There needs to be a time lag to switch modes at least 2-5 seconds 4. 3PV has too much FOV, yet too little to see legs, less intuitive to pilot than with minimap aid Could be tuned to be acceptable, but as is it neither serves the intended purpose nor does it maintain game balance.

As I understand it, the reticle movements are not autolock, or snap-to, or anything like that. It's still the 1PV reticle, as viewed from behind the mech, so it can act a little weird. Convergence, torso movement, terrain distance, and arm lock all seem to be playing a part in the jumpy reticle. Find a point to aim at in 3rd/1st person, then switch to the other view without moving, and you'll see it.

[Krivvan]

DCM Zeus, on 01 August 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

3PV CLEARLY has an advantage over 1PV and if you say otherwise you're either blind or just being willfully ignorant.

I put up the POS meter to show that the position was not changed going from 1PV to 3PV.

Your FOV is set higher than default.

[Zeus X]

Krivvan, on 01 August 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Your FOV is set higher than default.

Does it matter?

This also proves another point.

Everyone will be making their FOV to 80 to get a greater advantage.

Edited by DCM Zeus, 01 August 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[DemonRaziel]

Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?

Spider 5D, Highlander 732

What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?

Make legs visible, solve the lag/screen tear issue at high speeds (makes it pretty much unplayable for light 'Mechs)

Any additional comments or concerns.

Should be restricted to training grounds/tutorial mode. Changes the gameplay, even though there are trade-offs.

[Vimeous]

Initial thoughts on 3pv
- when rising on JJ's targets dead ahead are obscured (ctf-3d).
- no mini-map an effective limitation that will force players to use both views.
- targeting accuracy much more difficult for specific body parts. might improve with practice
- wider FOV making tracking fast targets easier ...
- ... however lights attacking assaults obscured completely close-in making targeting a guessing game (from as7-rs)
- some camo patterns and colour choices make judging leg orientation difficult in the heat of battle
- as7-rs: legs are completely obscured making orientation trial and error and painful in combat

Question: when in 3pv is target selection taken from the pov of the mech cockpit or the drone?

Additions:
- stk-5m River City stuck on ramp from water back into base at 1800.850
- red dot on 3pv cam can be seen clear across Canyon map
- red dot can be seen on River City (evening?) way before targeting or night vision have it in range

Edited by Vimeous, 01 August 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[Krivvan]

DCM Zeus, on 01 August 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Does it matter?

This also proves another point.

Everyone will be making their FOV to 80 to get a greater advantage.

FOV is being locked for third person.

[FoXabre]

I played a couple matches so far and wanted to submit some feedback. First of all, I am actually in love with the 3PV. I love to see my Mechs in a new angle and observe its pretty camo. Here are a couple cases where I had some issues.

Mech - Raven RVN-4X
Map - Canyon
Issue - Found that the camera struggled to keep up to my Raven as I activated my jump jets. It kind of stuttered.

Mech - Catapult CPLT-C1(F)
Map - Alpine
Issue - If 3PV is supposed to help with a visual aid of torso and leg movement, then this is not working on the Catapult. The camera is a little too far up. The torso covers the legs.

Issue 2 - The cursor seems to jump to the position that your weapons are likely to hit. This seems to screw up the missile lock detection. It appeared that the missile lock detection was still at the point of where my reticule should have been without the correction for intervening terrain. It was difficult to achieve missile lock in this setup.

Mech - Jenner JR7-D(S)
Map - Canyon
Issue - Using 3PV in the canyon seem to cause the camera to drag against the walls of the canyon.

Mech - Cicada CDA-X5
Map - Alpine
Issue - Using 3PV near the mountain at gamma base I experienced some clipping as I was running and turning to face a Jenner.

I've have also had an issue returning back to 1PV. The camera zooms in and then jerks to the right, just before and during, entering the cockpit.

Other than, so far, I've been enjoying it.

Edited by FoXabre, 01 August 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[Scop]

AWS-9M, STK-3F, HGN-HM.

3PV is cool for seeing my 'Mech and for navigating, but I like having my arms free, my minimap, and the ability to freelook too much to see myself using it, especially when the fur starts flying in a match. With the convergence/terrain jumping the reticule does in 3PV, LRMs are pretty much impossible to use well.

As-is I'm finding only vanity use during navigation and actual disadvantage during combat. Can't see myself using it, and not at all fussed at the thought.

Edited by Scop, 01 August 2013 - 04:22 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Niko Snow, on 31 July 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Please comment below with the following:

• Which Mech(s) did you use for this test?
  
• What improvements would you like to see with 3^rd person view?
  
• Any additional comments or concerns.

1. So far, Catapult, Jagermech, Highlander
2. Missile locks can be hard to obtain because of how the reticule moves in response to near/far obstacles. This is a pain in the *** with LRM's when you're behind cover, as unlike in 1PV mode you need to aim your reticule below the target box to obtain a missile lock. The reticule movement adapting for convergence is good, don't change that. But you need to fix missile locks when there's obstacles in between you and your target.

3a. It's not that bad, really. It grants additional situational awareness, but at a stealth reduction cost. So, it's not useful for a single scout, EXCEPT!

Situation: Blue Lance approaches the rim of the crater in Caustic. One mech enables 3PV, and uses that to peer over the ridge without exposing himself; identifies all enemy mechs in the crater - type, position, apparent damage. Red Lance, inside the crater, knows there's one enemy mech outside peeking in at them. They are unaware of the rest of Blue Lance.

Is this a problem? It's a decided advantage - the 3pv camera grants safe visibility at only personal, not team stealth cost, while it exposes multiple enemies. However, Red Team has that same option. They too can pop up a camera. A potential advantage is that it's now possible to peek over ridges and know whether or not you can move, rather than simply running out into a volley of PPC fire.

Will this lead to more camping? Or less? I'm unsure.

3b. I'm afraid:
As it currently stands, I could accept 3PV as a part of the game as a whole, mixed with 1PV. Obviously, I'd prefer to have 1PV-only matches, but 3PV adds no personal strategic advantage - only a team-wide usable advantage (see above comment re: using a single 3PV mech to peek without giving away numbers)

However, I'm extremely worried that minor changes will substantially increase this advantage, and those those changes are nearly inevitable once people start using 3PV.

[DeeBeeP]

• Centurion, Raven, Dragon
  
• Mainly just polishing.
  
• I had a huge hit to my frame rate with this patch. Since the 12v12 PTS I lost between 10-20 frames. This patch I lost more than 40 frames and dropped into the teens of fps. On the normal server I average 50-60 so PTS was pretty much unplayable for me and I could only handle about 3 games.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Arm lock in 3rd person is an issue. It really handicaps mechs designed with fully articulate arms without significantly handicaping mechs without fully articulate arms such as the Catapult, Stalker, Blackjack or JagerMech to name a few.

Also if your going to do 3rd person view and allow it, you might as well allow the minimap so a person can actually play in 3rd person if they perfer it.

Here is one major reason for not implementing it.

It gives more advantages to some mechs than it does others above and beyond the arm lock issue I mentioned. For example, I find 3rd person 10x more advantagous with my Jenner than 1st person. It assists me with my jumping abilities immensely and I even found it much easier to aim at my targets. Additionally it made it much, much easier to navigate the terrain without getting hung up on anything which is vital for a light mech.

The only thing that might keep me from using 3rd person on some mechs would be the lack of minimap and the armlock.

In conclusion, I did find 3rd person alot more fun than I thought, however I don't think it mixes well. My suggestion is if your going to add it, keep it a seperate que and give the HUD full functionality. I might even swap between the two ques if it goes in like this.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 01 August 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[Squid von Torgar]

Allow 3rd person only whilst the cadet bonus applies. Warn the pilots and then take it away. Please take it away, it ruins a very enjoyable game for no reason. Come on PGi, it was a nice try but really shouldn't be a part of the main game.

[ICUBurn]

Dont care for 3pv. cant hit anything gave up on it within first 2 minutes of my first game. im only playing on the test server for 12v12 at this point. suggestion. make the drone destroyable. give it 30 hp and when it gets to 20 make it start glitching, at 10 make it start going fuzzy and when it dies make it so it cant be used again teh rest of the game.

Also like the new 1st win of the day. but sugjest make it a choice between XP or Cbills. since some people would rather have teh cbills since they have boatloads of XP and cant use it.

[Krivvan]

Viktor Drake, on 01 August 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

It gives more advantages to some mechs than it does others above and beyond the arm lock issue I mentioned. For example, I find 3rd person 10x more advantagous with my Jenner than 1st person. It assists me with my jumping abilities immensely and I even found it much easier to aim at my targets.

Jenners with arm-lock are severely handicapped if played at a high level. You usually shoot far beyond your torso range, down past what you can even see in your cockpit. This is because ideally you are above the enemy, not running around at their feet. You also rarely ever even need the torso crosshair.

[Percimes]

Used 3rd person view with Hunchback, Dragon, Spider and Trebuchet.

On the Hunchback and Trebuchet I chouldn't see the legs of the mech and only a little for the Dragon. Spider was ok though. Considering there's no mini-map at all the torso/legs orientation on the Huchback and Treb was not always easy to figure out.

If the minimap stay off for the 3rd person view I would either put the orientation arrows back or make the camera leash a little longer for larger mechs.

Overall I found it harder to pilot in 3rd person (not enough match with it...) and much harder to use it effectively in combat.