116 replies to this topic

[luxebo]

I started yesterday after getting my beta key to MW tactics. Then I was inspired to go back into this game and attempt to play. I upgraded my machine the last time I played, and the map showed up with all the features; however, there's still quite a lot of lag. Although I'm a veteran at Mechwarrior (played MW3, MW4+mekpak 3.1, MC/MCG, MC2+Mechcommander Omnitech and Wolfman-x), I'm suprisingly terrible at this game. My best game to date is with the Hunchback with 8 med lasers, and I got 50 damage (which is probably terrible to standards) but most of my matches ended with 0-20 damage! This amazed me, because I completed Mechwarrior 3 and 4 mekpak 3.1 campaign with elite difficulty, and played mektek servers in past years until it went down, then some lan with friends and did decently well in most matches. I know I'm more suited to RTS and other games but at this rate, I will never score a kill.

Maybe my layout of buttons affect me, maybe lag? I fire missiles somewhat slowly, and ballistics don't really show to do much. Lasers look like they are pulse. My buttons are not stock; I use a similar to my MW4 Mercs layout. `/1-10 is walking, gas pedal arrow up and down (I can't use mouse wheel up and down), turn left/right mouse 1&2, Center torso mouse 3, and fire Home/End/Insert/Page Up/Delete/Page Down 1-6 groups for convenience in my keyboard. Don't know if that's affecting my aiming or I don't know a secret. Another thing could be 3rd person view, I'm pretty bad without that. Even with those disadvantages I read about, I'll still use it because I don't like 1st person view.

Just a few other game things. Maybe these trial mechs just suck now (before I think we had a decent Jenner, Hunchback with missiles, Katapult K2(that's how MW4 Mercs spells it), and a brawler Atlas.) My Commando can't do **** with the lag, my blackjack is a joke with 4 freaking flamers, my Catapult is useless with LRM20's and small lasers, and my Atlas can do decently well. It dies far too often though. My newly bought Hunchback is pretty good with 8 med lasers cutter variant.

Final couple questions, what happens if I sell a mech? Will I save the experience for that chassis/variant, or will I lose everything? I'm not willing to spend any money on this game until I can actually play normally. Mechlabs cost money. If I sell a mech, will I get partial cash, or will I get full price back? Also, can I sell parts that I deem useless?

Lastly, can someone help me with which mechs should I use? I generally know all the mechs in the game now, but the different variants are different from the basis chassis.
Commando=light raider
Spider=jumper
Jenner=light raider/scout
Raven=scout
Cicada=scout/sniper
Blackjack=sniper/fire support
Centurion=brawler
Trebuchet =fire support
Hunchback=brawler
Dragon=sniper/fire support/brawler
Quickdraw=fire support/jumper
Jagermech=sniper/fire support
Catapult=sniper/fire support
Cataphract=sniper/brawler
Awesome=sniper
Victor=sniper/brawler
Stalker=fire support/brawler
Highlander=brawler/jumper
Atlas=tank/sniper/fire support/brawler
Is that generally their roles?

Thanks for helping if anybody does.

[Koniving]

It's not as simple as that...

Commando=Base capper, harassment, heavy killer (depending on loadout).
Spider=Harassment, scout, sniper, Base capper
Jenner=Anti-Spider/Commando, mobile LRM platform, scout, fighter, base capper
Raven=Raven 3-L, harassment, scout, LRM-boat jammer. Ravens 2x 4x sniper, close combat support.
Cicada=scout, anti-light, base capper.
Blackjack=sniper, direct-fire support (BJ 1 and 1 DC variants), anti-light (BJ 1x and BJ 3 variants).
Centurion=Brawler, hit and run fighter.
Trebuchet =Indirect fire support (most models), direct fire support (7K). People foolishly use these Atlas-sized mediums as brawlers with missiles. Worst idea ever.
Hunchback=Brawler, Assassin (4P, 4G, 4H), direct fire support, indirect fire support (4J), anti-light and anti-heavy (4SP), all non 4SP variants work best in urban areas bobbing between buildings.
Dragon= Sniper, direct fire support (5N), hit and run tactics (any other Dragon).
Quickdraw=Same as Dragon.
Jagermech=sniper/fire support, brawler (throw on twin AC/20s)
Catapult=K2 direct-fire support, brawler. C1, C4, A1 indirect fire support, possible brawlers. Never bring a C4 to the front lines.
Cataphract=Direct fire support, brawler.
Awesome=Direct and indirect fire support, works best at the rear line. Light hunter, Awesome 9M. Brawler capable: 8T, 8R
Victor=Anti-medium anti-heavy hunter, direct fire support (Victor 9B), indirect fire support (Victor 9K), Anti-light (Victor 9S).
Stalker=fire support/brawler
Highlander=Brawler, direct fire support, indirect fire support.
Atlas=D and DD-C varied roles. RS, anti-light (pulse lasers), brawler, assault defender, sniper, direct fire support. Atlas K is NOT a brawler. Just like on tabletop it performs its best far from the fight, protecting either PPC boats or LRM boats.
Kintaro=Look at Trebuchet. According to Sarna it's a missile-hording monkey with swagger.

On hit and run fighters... This vid by 7NationArmy is good at explaining or demonstrating it.

(I'm the Cicada at the end, and I'm leading the group in each mission).

[Greyrook]

Oh dear! It's too bad your experience wasn't golden right off the bat but it's good you're sticking with it, this game does have a massive difficulty curve but it's worth slogging through in my opinion. If you do sell your hunchback, you WILL retain any experience and unlocks you have on it, but be careful as it's an easy way to deplete your funds as you only get half their original value back (and this can really hit your wallet if you've bought upgrades like double heat sinks). You can do this for parts as well, the sell option is down under the description when you're modifying a loadout and have a part selected.

Mediums are probably one of the more difficult weight classes in my opinion, possibly the -most- difficult because of the metagame. You just don't have the up-front alpha of the heavies and assaults, and you don't have the speed of the lights until you can afford an XL.

My personal suggestion would be to get your experience in a light, it forces you to be a better pilot in pretty much all aspects (maneuvering, aim, etc) and lets you save money for much-needed upgrades like XL engines and endo structure.

But, if that just sounds out of your wheelhouse, the hunchback is a great medium and has a variant for pretty much every battle role. The 4P is kind of gimped with the heatscaling they just implemented, but I've seen them around. If you want to stick with it, my suggestion is for every match: find a buddy. Just stick with 1 or 2 slower assaults/heavies and provide support for them fending off lights and adding to their DPS.

Also, your lag issues may be performance based. If you haven't, try dialing down the graphics and see if that helps. They're supposed to be working on optimization, but this is the CryEngine after all. If that doesn't help, it may be that you just aren't keeping the beams on long enough. Medium lasers do their 5 damage over the duration, so if you only keep it on for a moment, the damage is going to be negligible; learning to keep your lasers on target is an essential skill, even when using the pulse varieties.

Another great tool is the smurfy mechlab. Here's your 4P http://mwo.smurfy-ne...lab#i=2&l=stock go nuts designing one that looks good and be sure to check out other successful builds in the guides section of the forums.

Edited by Greyrook, 02 August 2013 - 10:53 PM.

[Gwydion Ward]

When you sell a mech, you get two options. Cell the Meh + equipment, or Mech only. You do NOT lose any gained EXP from that mech, but you must 'have' that mech in order to USE any of the exp gained with it (which is a bit odd to me.)

As for being terrible at the game. Well at first MWO played just like MW3 and 4. You could aim for specific mech-parts and it would be a 'valid' tactic, destroying weapons. damaging legs.. that sort of thing. Nowadays, with the current Meta. That no-longer exists.

There is no 'i might hit what im aiming at'. there is 'i WILL hit EXACTLY what i am aiming at.' And what is the quickest way to kill a mech? The CT. 1 module, 1 place, take it out, kills the entire mech. And the CT? FIXED armor amount, split between front and rear. There is no way to reinforce it.

What does this mean?

Simple, the game has deteriorated into nothing more than an 'alpha-race'. Strip all the armor off every location EXCEPT your CT (and side torso's) then put as much fire-power on your mech as you possibly can and still have it functional. Then, as you fight, aim for one place and one place only. The other guys CT.

And hope you destroy his before he destroys yours.

Thats the game in a nut-shell right now sadly.

So, if you have lag issues, or Graphical lag issues, The other guy is going to be targeting and hitting your CT faster and more accurately than you are.

Easy to hit CT's + Human FPS style accuracy = Gameplay that has degenerated to 'highest alpha wins'. The only exception of this are lights that can sneak up behind another mech and hit them in the rear armor (as everyone has 90% of their CT armor towards the front to try to counter the CT targeting), or anyone in any other size mech that manages to sneak behind someone.

Thats all the game is now.

No MW tactics work as there is no gameplay that works with it. Its target the CT and hit it with as much firepower as you can, and hope you out-damage the other guy.

[Sephlock]

[Greyrook]

Rhapsody Repine, on 02 August 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

As for being terrible at the game. Well at first MWO played just like MW3 and 4. You could aim for specific mech-parts and it would be a 'valid' tactic, destroying weapons. damaging legs.. that sort of thing. Nowadays, with the current Meta. That no-longer exists.

There is no 'i might hit what im aiming at'. there is 'i WILL hit EXACTLY what i am aiming at.' And what is the quickest way to kill a mech? The CT. 1 module, 1 place, take it out, kills the entire mech. And the CT? FIXED armor amount, split between front and rear. There is no way to reinforce it.

What does this mean?

Simple, the game has deteriorated into nothing more than an 'alpha-race'. Strip all the armor off every location EXCEPT your CT (and side torso's) then put as much fire-power on your mech as you possibly can and still have it functional. Then, as you fight, aim for one place and one place only. The other guys CT.

And hope you destroy his before he destroys yours.

I wouldn't say this is -entirely- true, but it is...mostly true, admittedly. I don't think there's a complete absence of weapon stripping for certain mechs (e.g., I will usually try to take out a Yen Lo's right arm if possible, and I always go for the RT of an Atlas or either side torso for a Jager {due to them usually carrying an XL}), but yeah, it is kind of an alpha-strike game, though I don't play that way personally. Every time I see a 2xERPPC + 1 Gauss opponent I die a little inside.

[Gwydion Ward]

Greyrook, on 02 August 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

I wouldn't say this is -entirely- true, but it is...mostly true, admittedly. I don't think there's a complete absence of weapon stripping for certain mechs (e.g., I will usually try to take out a Yen Lo's right arm if possible, and I always go for the RT of an Atlas or either side torso for a Jager {due to them usually carrying an XL}), but yeah, it is kind of an alpha-strike game, though I don't play that way personally. Every time I see a 2xERPPC + 1 Gauss opponent I die a little inside.

Less than a hour ago... I found myself in a situation were i ran headlong into a flank by 6 enimy mechs.

Yes 6. Yes i died, not upset about that, 6 vs 1 of course im going to die.

What i AM a bit upset about, and is why i say what i do about the current state of the game is HOW i died.

6 enimy mechs. Between them, they fired every type of weapon currently in the game at me. Energy, Ballistic, Missile, all 3. Now, as for my mech? As per the current meta, i had arm and leg armor set to around 15-20. Head armor set to around 8, and between 80-20 or 90-10 split front/rear.

Now.. how did i die?

100% CT destroyed. Right arm dropped down to 'yellow' displayed armor, left leg down to Red structure.

NO OTHER AREA WAS DAMAGED EVEN 1 POINT.

6 mechs, all targeted the exact same point. the CT.

That is all the game is now

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 02 August 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[Greyrook]

Rhapsody Repine, on 02 August 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

NO OTHER AREA WAS DAMAGED EVEN 1 POINT.

6 mechs, all targeted the exact same point. the CT.

Like I said, it is -mostly-/almost completely true, but you can't really fault players for doing what the system is encouraging them to do right now. And in that case, I'd say they did quite well, focusing fire like that, I'm surprised you were even nearly legged. There are still some who check for weak legs though, and I've gotten my share of kills because somebody decided not to put on leg armor.

[Gwydion Ward]

Greyrook, on 02 August 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

Like I said, it is -mostly-/almost completely true, but you can't really fault players for doing what the system is encouraging them to do right now. And in that case, I'd say they did quite well, focusing fire like that, I'm surprised you were even nearly legged. There are still some who check for weak legs though, and I've gotten my share of kills because somebody decided not to put on leg armor.

Yea, im not ranting about the players =)

More a rant about how the game is designed to be played now. Vs what it was back in earlier beta days.

The game forces you to do the 'alpha-race' dance, It forces you to aim at only the CT. Its just sadly become that way

And just as sadly, its the only real advice to give new players.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 02 August 2013 - 11:46 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

If everything seems super laggy, I'd really like to know your system specs as well as your typical ping while playing the game.

[Elizander]

When was aiming for the CT and killing someone a bad thing? If you think everyone is running low on leg armor just tell your friend to shoot the right leg and you shoot the left

[Ridersofdoom]

¡someone please listen to us! this is not the MW that we wanted.

[tucsonspeed6]

People are naturally going to aim for the CT. Even a new player will aim for the center of mass simply because it's the easiest to aim for. Personally, I aim for different targets depending on the type of mech I'm shooting at. I always shoot the legs out from under a raven or jenner since that armor is so low and a legged light is as good as dead anyway. Some heavier mechs tend to use XL engines to get a good balance of guns and speed, so I tend to aim for a side torso on most medium or heavies since it's either a kill or at least takes out half of their weapon systems. Assaults tend to have standard engines since they can handle the weight, so I aim for CT if I can.

As for the OP, I think most players feel like they can do better. Still, 50 damage per round is evidence that there's something wrong. I suspect that if you're not dying 10 seconds after encountering an enemy, you're not hitting them because of some serious lag. If that's the case, there's probably not much you can do to improve.

If you're dying too quickly, I suspect it's because you need new tactics. People won't prioritize a hunchie first in a group, so if you stay with a group and act as support fire, you'll live much longer.
Also, your button layout looks very unorthodox. I think you'll do much better if you teach yourself how to pilot the mechs with the default layout and group your weapons to your mouse buttons. Just go into testing grounds for a while to learn without anyone shooting at you.

And as always, a premade group with teamspeak will ALWAYS be better than a PUG group that communicates through chat. If you don't have a problem with the whole process of meeting strangers in a teamspeak lobby and joining their group, you should go that route.

Edit: I should also point out that a mech with elite skills maxed out is not the same crappy machine that you bought. The difference is dramatic to say the least. Grinding to get enough exp on 3 variants sucks, but the reward is totally worth it.

Edited by tucsonspeed6, 03 August 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[ROJ]

First of all, if the game is performing poorly on your system, then it will affect your in game performance.. Lag and fps drops can be a sign that your computer is barely catching with this game, perhaps even overheating when this game is running.. Are you running a laptop by any chance???

Yeah, this game is not easy to start with.. There is plenty of patience and planning before making the next move and when the fight begins you will need to keep moving to avoid being hit and to attack effectively.

Each mech has a different purpose and works best for certain situations. The hunchback is a great starter mech as it is a good teacher when it comes to controlling and using a mech. It handles good, easy to drive, not very fast and not very solid of a mech. Needless to say the hunchback is to be used mainly as a support and escort mech as it barely holds up on its own in combat. Always stick next to your team and assaults, while providing them support.

Finally team speak is a great way to meet and communicate with mechwarriors.. It will enhance the gaming experience; you can work better with your lance mates and you learn from others watching your performance & commenting about it.

[BoPop]

i'm amazingly terrible and I've played A LOT. so it's ok. it can be a tough game, also some luck involved, and lots of teamwork. and yea, need a tweaked out 2xbasic greased up mech too.

[Gremlich Johns]

Switch to a joystick for X, Y and Z. And do not get rid of any Hunchback.

I use a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and a razer Nostromo. I pilot mostly my HBK-4G (F) with an AC20 and 3xMLas. The most damage I have dealt out in that mech was 800. The highest score for both sides (and my team still lost)
Uploaded with ImageShack.com

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 03 August 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Redshift2k5, on 03 August 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

If everything seems super laggy, I'd really like to know your system specs as well as your typical ping while playing the game.

This.

Also, don't worry too much - the game is famously hard to get into but everyone gets the hang of it

(Also, keep in mind that Medium lasers fired above six now cause a heat penalty, so it might be worth adjusting your build or firing patterns to not fire more than six at one time.)

[Koniving]

Kon's mech experience.

Spoiler

I collect 'em all!

For piloting Dragons, Quickdraws, and thusly any super fast Centurion with an XL engine

Spoiler

Koniving, on 06 February 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Here's what I'll tell you from my experience on the learning curve for dragon 'Mechs.

They are not brawlers. If they brawl, they will always lose. Their strengths are speed and concentration of arm-mounted weaponry. The ideal dragon fights in hit and runs, like the classic Jenner from pre-ECM days. You move in, you hit, you move out.

The only exception is when the enemy is exhibiting tunnel vision -- that is when the enemy focuses entirely on one target to the exclusion of anything else with the sole intent of killing that one target. In that case, you get your dragon behind that enemy, hammer everything into their back until you get a reaction and then you stay behind it.

You are a Dragon. A glorified, heavy weight, highly armored monstrosity that is confused about his weight class and pretending to be a light 'Mech.

You are the anti-light.

You are anti-medium.

You will not snipe the heavies.

You will not brawl the assaults.

You are not on the front line.

You are not at the rear guard.

You are coming from the side.

You are the clean-up crew.

You are the hero that saves a swarmed assault.

You exist to hear "Thnks 4 the help."

You are neither the sword nor the shield.

You are the hidden dagger concealed in a swordsman's boot.

You are the cheap shot.

You are the killing blow.

And if you bring any other mentality while in the Dragon, then you are the rusted pile of junk left in the snow of Frozen City.

And finally, as there's a Hunchback picture above...

Spoiler

My high with a Hunchback that has an XL engine and triple AC/2s firing one at a time per 35 MS [10 milliseconds slower than just one AC/2 to keep heat and ammo consumption down] and small lasers. 768 with 3 kills 2 assists.

The build.


And a stock Hunchback, SHS and all.

[ego1607]

Gremlich Johns, on 03 August 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Switch to a joystick for X, Y and Z. And do not get rid of any Hunchback.

I use a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and a razer Nostromo. I pilot mostly my HBK-4G (F) with an AC20 and 3xMLas. The most damage I have dealt out in that mech was 800. The highest score for both sides (and my team still lost)
Uploaded with ImageShack.com

Wait, joystick for x,y, z? I hope you don't mean for torso twist, because that is a terrible idea, specially for beginner player. If you use joystick, map the x axis for leg turning and y axis for throttle, and use it in your left hand. That will give you a slight edge against keyboard users as you'll have more precise and responsive controll over your mech's movement, while still mantaining the precision of mouse aiming with your right hand.

As for the hunchback p variant, my advice goes something like this: Take 7 mlas (5 in hunch, one on your head), fill the rest with heatsinks and put in the fastest standard engine you can fit. Now when you engage the enemy, just remember to torso twist so that every time you expect him to shoot you (every time you're not aiming to shoot at him if possible), have your left side turned toward him. That way when he shoot, he will waste his shot on your left arm or left torso, and your center torso and hunch lasers are well protected. After he shoots, you shoot him back, and imediately turn away again to protect your hunch.

Also, as you'll quickly find out, this game is more often then not, more about positioning then about piloting skill. Always keep in mind where your teammates are, and always stick close to them. If possible, stick close to someone big, like an atlas, and usually, noone will even target you. Never let sourselt get greedy and allow yourself to chase a damaged light to an ambush. Be patient, wait for the enemy to make a mistake and get into a fight where he is outnumbered and then waste him.

Edited by ego1607, 03 August 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[BoPop]

luxebo, on 02 August 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

maybe lag?

i'm gonna think a little of this and a little of that. from your OP it sounds like you have enough basic experience in this and these type games. someone might have asked up above but I didn't read:

so how awesome is your computer? how good is your connection? what's your FPS when you're fighting? Do you have your graphics all maxed out? Try bumping them alllll the way down, then working from there. To me it sounds like some latency or something there's no reason you should have that low of damage and I don't think it's cuz your a bad player something's amiss, you're dropping packets or SOMEthin. basically you are firing, and in YOUR reality, that enemy is there, when in the server's reality he's maybe a meter or two to the left or right.

Edited by BoPop, 03 August 2013 - 07:44 AM.