2021 replies to this topic

[Monky]

Paul made a follow up post to the now infamous spider 3PV screenshot dismissing it (and by extension arguments about the 3PV scouting behind cover) as a bug.

Here is this post; http://mwomercs.com/...e-those-queues/

In response, I spent a little while taking a scenic tour of River City in 1PV/3PV and snapping some screenshots of areas that avoid the ray trace bug, posted here for easier digestion;

http://mwomercs.com/...tracing-errors/

Please help bring attention to this, that is 45 minutes of halfassedly looking for exploits, surely someone on the QA team could have made a 30 minute pass on each of the maps and located MULTIPLE more sites where this problem occurs without the ray trace bug (which still should not have slipped through as you can repro it against any surface - this feature was not tested internally and they ignored input from the test servers where this very issue was identified, though the cause wasn't known at the time).

Edited by Monky, 21 August 2013 - 01:06 AM.

[psihius]

I don't understand this shitstorm, being a Legendary Founder and Phoenix Overlord owner.
Even when reading the patch notes, I realised that 3rd person view is nothing more than an educational tool for new players. Seriously: arms locked, no minimap, no hud, no seismic sensor data and a flashing drone that points your exact location (oh the River City Night - snipers gona love those 3rd person view drones)!.
Seriously, you geniuses, just try playing it. It's impossible to play it on any serious level in that way.

I would imagine, that the majority of you, play solo or randomly in groups and don't play in units. And what the 1PV gives you in 12 vs 12 or even in random 4-man groups is priceless. The restrictions on 3rd PV are just crippling your ability to play. It's clearly designed for educational purposes only (or for casuals, who log in a few hours a week to ride a shiny giant kick-*** robot and can't grasp the 1-st PV).

I don't know about you, but i'm planning to move on to hardcore modes with my unit when they are getting released, and as far as i remember, those modes where to be strictly 1PV only. Until I see proof of otherwise, I'm all ok with random matches being a mix. Why? Just see the 12 vs 12 queue, i's impossible to find a match there some evenings at all, sometimes it takes some time to find a match for our 4-man group (sure our ELO is quite high, we are Varangian Guard Of FFR for gods sakes).
So, instead of bitching, get a 12 man team and drop in at West Europe - Central Europe prime time and we shall see are you fighters or just a bunch of whining kittens. Europe comstar team speak server would be fine, I will be hanging out there for a while. We also have our own TS server, that can be found here: http://varguard.ru/v...opic.php?id=126 (in English)

Edited by psihius, 21 August 2013 - 01:12 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

dtgamemaster, on 21 August 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

Is it good business sense to implement 3PV as it is now, and anger a community that actually cares about the franchise and have supported you where it matters most - thru their wallets?

It must be good business sense.

PGI has known about the massive lashback for months, we've seen forum polls with 90% for 1PV only, 10% want 3PV, PGI still gave us 3PV.

now - only an ***** would implement 3PV if it was bad for business given the last 6 months & massive vitriol this entire 3PV affair has pulled from hardcore players.

so it MUST be good for business and financially.

[Mindwiper]

All people commenting here forget one thing:

It dos not matter how many people post and write AGAINST 3rd person. 10 000, 100 k, 1 Million...The silent majority WANTS 3rd person! Don't you remember?

When I think of Bryan right now a character from another Scifi Universe comes to my mind. Kharn the Betrayer, or to stay in our beloved universe, let's start calling him Amaris the Usurper.

[Razor1611]

MischiefSC, on 20 August 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

I realize that I'm on the consumer side of the window here and know nothing about the events that led to this decision but I just can't help but try to understand what process failure led to this seeming like a good idea and if anyone even realizes what sort of a mistake it is and is collecting data to resolve it.

That all does not matter. Because what you need to realise, you are actually on the EMPLOYERside. You pay the money that secures their jobs. Stop paying it. Demand a 100% refund, Lets see how far paychecks go without the proper accountbalance.

I am really saddened that it had to come this far. This is nothing i like to do. But we need to remember the basics of selling. Sell truth. Sell fair. And most of all: Sell the customer what he wants.

It all could be so easy. I mean, its not like we demand anything unresonable. Just do your Job. Give us what we pay for.

anyways, i am out again. Playing some Forex MMO at www.etoro.com There at least my money is wanted.

[telomere]

Make the transition time between 1PV and 3PV take approx 5 - 10 seconds. During this time your controls should be locked and screen should be black with a message saying "drone deploying" or "retrieving drone".

The current situation allows a player to gain the advantages of both 1PV and 3PV by switching between them at will. You need to make it a meaningful choice by penalising the switch between the two modes.

Also, the implementation which pulls the camera in close when you're near terrain is laughably exploitable. And I'm not referring to just the "river city bug" -- all you need to do is look to the side slightly while near a ridge and the camera pulls out again, allowing you to see over the obstacle.

[Sinnersaix]

well, we all know the Jumpsniper and Boating Issue with this Game. The Boating Issue is more or less fixed. But the Jumpsniping will be increasing with 3rd Person view, because Jumpsniper do not need the Radar at all, only a small or building to sit behind. Then they can use the Drone to look over the Object, wait for an enemy Mech, jump and POW one more for the Junkpile. Thats what killed MW4 Multiplayer for me. Spawning, runing around for some secs and get killed from someone i cant even see. And thats what 3rd will bring us. Overkill Jumpsniping.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Paewen, on 20 August 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

I'm normally the first one to stick up for PGI, you can ask anyone in DHB. But this time, I just can't.

I'm going to give it the week Russ stated in his tweet, and if no resolution based on what they promised us, I'll ask for a refund on my Phoenix pack. I can use the refund for other "things"

The beauty is SC's hangar module kicks off this coming weekend. College starts next week. SC Dogfighting alpha starts in December, so, if I have to end up leaving, I'll hate doing it, but if they can't deliver what they told some of their biggest supporters, why should I continue to support.

I'm deeply concerned about SC's Hangar and Dogfighting modules because I feel that PGI will be so preoccupied messing about with that they'll stop developing MWO completely. The game might even take a step or 2 backwards durung that time and revert back to closed Beta status. I sincerely hope not, but then again, less PGI influence might be a good thing, no?

Edited by Brown Hornet, 21 August 2013 - 01:20 AM.

[SiDheBRX]

psihius, on 21 August 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

I don't understand this shitstorm, being a Legendary Founder and Phoenix Overlord owner.
Even when reading the patch notes, I realised that 3rd person view is nothing more than an educational tool for new players. Seriously: arms locked, no minimap, no hud, no seismic sensor data and a flashing drone that points your exact location (oh the River City Night - snipers gona love those 3rd person view drones)!.
Seriously, you geniuses, just try playing it. It's impossible to play it on any serious level in that way.

I would imagine, that the majority of you, play solo or randomly in groups and don't play in units. And what the 1PV gives you in 12 vs 12 or even in random 4-man groups is priceless. The restrictions on 3rd PV are just crippling your ability to play. It's clearly designed for educational purposes only (or for casuals, who log in a few hours a week to ride a shiny giant kick-*** robot and can't grasp the 1-st PV).

I don't know about you, but i'm planning to move on to hardcore modes with my unit when they are getting released, and as far as i remember, those modes where to be strictly 1PV only. Until I see proof of otherwise, I'm all ok with random matches being a mix. Why? Just see the 12 vs 12 queue, i's impossible to find a match there some evenings at all, sometimes it takes some time to find a match for our 4-man group (sure our ELO is quite high, we are Varangian Guard Of FFR for gods sakes).
So, instead of bitching, get a 12 man team and drop in at West Europe - Central Europe prime time and we shall see are you fighters or just a bunch of whining kittens.

This.

I couldn't care less about the 3PV, both in terms of using it myself, as well as in terms of my opponents having an unfair / game changing advantage over me.

Nothing to see here, move on.

2c

[GrandLocomon]

Almeras, on 21 August 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

Well I hope my feed back gets through the 54+ pages for anger I've seen

First I understand why PGI did 3rd person. I don't like 3rd person and wish it wasn't in but that's besides the point.

• I think you view point should be locked either from the options menu or within the 1st moments of the match. I want to avoid the whole having to toggle back and forth in 12mans to eek out every iota of competitiveness from both modes. You pick you poison you make your choice.
  
• I would like to see the elevation for the camera lowered to 1st person height and a transparency (adjustable) cast on your mech allowing you to see what you're shooting at like this;
  
• 

This idea sounds good. To me, the only other acceptable option (since 1st person only queue is out) to include 3pv is to lock it. No changing during match to gain whichever PV is more beneficial at the time.

Edited by GrandLocomon, 21 August 2013 - 01:24 AM.

[SiDheBRX]

Sinnersaix, on 21 August 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

well, we all know the Jumpsniper and Boating Issue with this Game. The Boating Issue is more or less fixed. But the Jumpsniping will be increasing with 3rd Person view, because Jumpsniper do not need the Radar at all, only a small or building to sit behind. Then they can use the Drone to look over the Object, wait for an enemy Mech, jump and POW one more for the Junkpile. Thats what killed MW4 Multiplayer for me. Spawning, runing around for some secs and get killed from someone i cant even see. And thats what 3rd will bring us. Overkill Jumpsniping.

I don't agree, for several reasons:

As a fire support, you will usually have a pretty clear idea (esp. in a premade) where your opponent is. I don't need 3pv for that, it's an advantage indeed but nothing that I'd consider vital.

In addition, if you are in that situation, the drone might / will give yourself away, which is a much greater threat to a poptart since the counter-FS will be able to lign up shots.

I do not see that 3pv will increase poptarting.

Secondly, about poptarting as such: in 12vs12 premades, it is often / usually best at the beginning of the game. Either it stays a FS battle for some time, or one of the sides is forced to push and make it a knife fight. In either case, sooner or later poptarting ceases to be the most effective playstyle, simply since you need to get out more DPS in order to carry your weight.

TLDR: the griefing about poptarting is exaggerated; so is a perceived "boost" to poptarting from 3pv

[TekGnosis]

Doxylicious, on 20 August 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

-Useless when other mechs are close. u can not aim precice enough and not camera to slow. . try hitting a light mech circeling you.

It is far easier to hit a circling light in 3pv. Just aim a little high and when your crosshair 'jump's down pull the trigger. Will get a torso shot nearly 100% of the time. This is as close to an aimbot as I've ever seen one implemented in a game.

[BladeXXL]

As the hovering drone allows to watch over a hill or object, it should be possible to shoot the drone down and destroy the 3rdPV for a player for the rest of the match!
So give it some health, a hitbox and a message "Drone under Attack" and everything is fine.

[DeRazer]

Dear PGI,

I enjoy this game and have respected many of the decisions you have made - even the unpopular ones - in the interests of getting the game finished.

I am not a purist for TT despite having played it and most of the mechgames over the last 20 years. I don't care about timelines or wacky heat logic or LRMs doing the damage of light rain or delaying certain mechs or dumbing down graphics.

But I AM a person of principles.

You have lied about 3PV.

You said it would never happen. It did.
You said it would never mix with 1PV. It does.
You said the queues would be separate. They are NOT.

I don't care whether it provides an advantage or not it's time to act like an adult and just be honest with your players IN ADVANCE.

I urge you to create hardcore queues as hotfix immediately and try to preserve what little remains of your reputation.

Done.

[Ghostwolfe]

I've played it, I've played against it. 3PV is an advantage if you can switch back and forth - and anybody saying otherwise clearly doesn't care or doesn't know what they are talking about. I watched some jump snipers pull off "incredible" timing with their shots when they should not have been able to and it was due to the 3PV. This crud needs to be re-worked.

[Psydotek]

I am unthrilled about this decision.

My extended hiatus from the game will be extended even further unfortunately.

There's my feedback.

[Wired]

SiDheBRX, on 21 August 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

I don't agree, for several reasons:

As a fire support, you will usually have a pretty clear idea (esp. in a premade) where your opponent is. I don't need 3pv for that, it's an advantage indeed but nothing that I'd consider vital.

In addition, if you are in that situation, the drone might / will give yourself away, which is a much greater threat to a poptart since the counter-FS will be able to lign up shots.

I do not see that 3pv will increase poptarting.

Secondly, about poptarting as such: in 12vs12 premades, it is often / usually best at the beginning of the game. Either it stays a FS battle for some time, or one of the sides is forced to push and make it a knife fight. In either case, sooner or later poptarting ceases to be the most effective playstyle, simply since you need to get out more DPS in order to carry your weight.

TLDR: the griefing about poptarting is exaggerated; so is a perceived "boost" to poptarting from 3pv

Seriously people, start abusing 3pv and streaming it. People like this guy are not going to understand until it is out there for all to see.

[charov]

Caviel, on 20 August 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

Is 3PV game breaking? No.

Is it an absolute requirement? No.

Does it provide a competitive advantage with occasional use when used beyond the "new pilot" intention? Absolutely.

Example:

Spoiler

1st Person view, Frozen City training grounds:



3PV, same location, circled enemy mechs:


So no, not "game breaking", although you can easily gain more information than you could otherwise. It just feels cheap.

See PGI? That's the problem. Make the 3rd person like an UAV: destroyable, one-shot and time limited. That will make it a valuable tactical asset instead of a cheap and brainless advantage.

Leave it as it is now but only in training ground. This feature really kills the competitive play.

[POWR]

zwanglos, on 20 August 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

And do what? Shoot the rock?

And you'll do what from having equal knowledge of your position? Shoot the rock?

[PickleM0nster]

WOW! i'm not normally one to write on the forums but plz,plz,plz people stop the bitching and whining.It seems to be the majority of what this forum is used for..and by a minority... saying all the the MWO community hates 3pv is a crock of ****..you dont speak for me or many others!!
Having tried 3pv it doesnt bother me one way or the other .all ill say is if you dont like it simply push F4 and "GET ON WITH IT" ..play the game people ,as it is simply that "A GAME" . ive never seen a more **** retentive bunch of ****** in my life .Ive spent so much money WAHH WAHH WAHH, i cant boat my 6PPC WahhWAHH, I dont like LRMs, SSRM, SRM, Gaus rifle, poptarting ,alpha striking, spiders, jenners, the list goes on!!WAHH WAHH wAHH . !!! Throw your rattle out of your pram!!

having a bad day!, you've pissed me off children! .. Have a nice day!
Oh and i'm not going to answer any replies to this as i wont engage the **** trolls(not all ,some are constructive) who frequent the forums! see you in game!