2021 replies to this topic

[Rashkae]

Anthono, on 21 August 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...85#entry2678285

"it wasn’t because we don’t care about the community but quite the opposite, you could even say we cared too much"

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Shaddie]

After playing a few rounds I've decided I don't really care about 3pv being in there.... I'll still play the game and hopefully kick some metal butt.... however I am still very sad about the lying part..

[Kith Kinda]

For me its the bold face lying. If they had said we are implementing 3pv with no ques id be pissed but could deal. The fact that they put in writting that there woupd be ques and then not even notify us ahead of time of the change is unacceptable and inexcusable. Its poor buisness practice. Especially since we are here to test the game for the, so they can make it better and therefore make more money. Your welcome PGI.

[Your Friend Mr Rogers]

Killashnikov, on 20 August 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

So you like to look at your mech fine... But just because you haven't seen the problem doesn't mean it is not there.
The stupid thing is if it is done right you will never know your opponent used it against you - you wont see them.
Sure a red blinking light will give them away - if you are looking!
They wont pop up on radar. They can line you up for a shot from behind cover even LRMs cant target them, and when they pop you have less then 2 seconds to see them, line them up and shoot back, all of this while taking incoming damage.

At competitive levels of the game it will change the game considerably more toward a sniping meta. As if PPC changes back in the day weren't bad enough.

Worst it makes cover sniping more effective and cover sniping is the mode of combat least effected by the heat-scale changes they introduced.

Ranik Selesky, on 20 August 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Nobody uses it to corner peek?

Nobody uses it to look over hills both small and hilltops?

Nobody uses it to line up shots for poptarting?

Nobody uses it to risklessly scout enemy movements?



Are you joking or just naive? Just because people don't have it on non-stop doesn't mean it isn't messing up the game.

I don't see the problem with it, but what does it matter. I am saying that the game play itself has not changed one bit for me. Now I do understand the people who are angry about PGI blatantly lying. The people that are saying the 3pv is OP or whatever, I really don't see it even with the fancy diagram posted many times though out this topic. I don't see it, because when I am actually playing the game nothing is unfair or different.


As for corning peaking...
1. you do not have a radar
2. your sensors still won't be able to pick them up
3. they will know your there, because of the blinky drone
As for poptarting...
1. The blinky drone offsets that a bit
As for scouting...
1. THE GOSH DAMN BLINKY DRONE
2. can't receive target info
3. sensors will not pickup enemies(yes I know you can type their locations and type of mech, but without loadout info what does it matter?)

Above all else I never see anyone ever use it...

Does anyone else see the point I am trying to make!

[MoonUnitBeta]

Shadinator, on 21 August 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Actually they said just that...

Yes I was corrected on that already.

Here's PGI's apology. Posted 10 minutes ago.

[Wrayeth]

Okay, I'm going to briefly play devil's advocate here, then jump on the bandwagon...

At this point, I'm wondering if PGI's being pushed into this by their publisher, IGP, if they've been told that they have to include 3PV RIGHT NOW or else. It would certainly explain why they did it all of a sudden and with little warning, and also without hardcore mode. Lord knows we've seen enough instances of higher-ups pushing their decisions on game developers in the last decade (see: the death of Star Wars Galaxies for one of the most prevalent examples) and ruining games in the process.

The reason this springs to mind is largely due to the sudden and unexpected change of developers for MW: Tactics. One moment MW: Tactics had one publisher, and the next it was a different company, with no prior announcement that I could discern. This is a classic symptom of a publisher who micro-manages the developers they publish for and ruins games in the process. Now it may be happening to PGI.

So, at this point, what would you do if you're Russ Bullock? You've just been told by your publisher to implement third-person view OR ELSE, but it's a.) not ready, and b.) would violate your oath to the players. You could refuse to implement it, but that would get PGI axed just like Roadhouse Interactive was. However, while taking the moral high ground is laudable and the players will love you for it, your responsibility to the customer isn't your only duty. You also have a duty to the employees working under you as well as your own family, all of whom would face hardship and could even lose their homes when the money stops coming in. You then have to decide: is your personal honor and integrity worth the pain and suffering it will cause your family and employees?

Let's say you choose to sacrifice your integrity for the well-being of your associates and family. The players are going to be angry, and rightfully so, and all of that anger will focus directly on you. You now face another decision: implement 3PV while being honest and laying the circumstances out for the player base (which, not coincidentally, will also have the effect of placing the blame squarely where it belongs) or implementing it yet staying quiet and accepting the burden of guilt.

If you do the former, your players will be unhappy, but with IGP instead of you. However, because you pointed the finger at them, justified or not, you and your company may end up facing the same consequences as if you'd simply refused to implement 3PV in the first place. Nobody in authority likes having the blame laid upon their shoulders, especially not when it's fully justified.

With all of the above choices being totally unpalatable, which one do you choose? Refuse and lose your company's income, accept but place the blame where it belongs (and possibly lose your income), or accept and keep quiet, pretending it was your own choice?

As a person who at least attempts to be reasonably moral when it comes to the important things, I'd choose the third option and sacrifice my integrity for the good of my employees and family. My players would be unhappy and many would leave for greener pastures, but at least none of them would be left wondering where their next meal is coming from.

I don't know if this bears any resemblance to reality or not, but it's always best to remember that nobody works in a vacuum.

All of that said, I'm just as pissed as everyone else that 3PV offers a significant tactical advantage in the form of information gathering and, moreover, that this was done without hardcore mode, in direct contravention of a promise made to us by PGI.

EDIT: Just read the apology, and it sounds to me like PGI is saying, "We know what's best for you, and you WILL like it. We're sorry we didn't communicate that fact well, but them's the breaks. We'll be happy to make *minor* alterations in our plan, but that big thing you really want (hardcore mode)? Yeah, no."

Edited by Wrayeth, 21 August 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[nitra]

MnDragon, on 21 August 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Okay, not a flame, but a constructive criticism. I asked my wife to get on the game today and see if she could figure out the controls......

Girl Gamer feed back was only important in the 2000's

PGI Has clearly demonstrated the only feed back they are interested in is the "silent majority" .

During some research into who this silent majority is i came across a startling conclusion .

The silent majority does not exist .

it is effectively the developer telling the player base to be silent. they do not want to here your feed back . Silence !!

When they say they only want constructive criticism it means post only positive feed back because they do not want to hear anything negative .

They then reinforce this by strictly moderating the entire forum and only allowing "constructive feed back" in a single buried thread. Silence !!

(all arguments that they did this to ease compiling of the feed back is bogus because they ignored all the feed back in the previous 3pv thread)

In this thread they said they are going to address the community ideas regarding 3pv, and that is why they have taken the course they have.

but just keep this in mind .

In closed beta there was a ton of feed back on .

no 3pv .

pin point alpha needed to be addressed.

and the game was in dire need of game play based content.


That was over a year ago.



Today we now have 3pv

no fix for pin point alpha

and the same 2 game modes for almost a entire year .


thus when pgi says they are listening to the silent majority . they mean they aren't listening, and are pursuing their own goals

which lie directly opposite of the player base.


i wish their was something positive to say but the actions speaks for themselves .


PGI does not care nor do they have any interest in what our opinions on what mech warrior online should be.

They have chosen the easy route and are pursuing a stream lined simplified approach to a generic fps, with mech skins.

The business model is a crash grab providing little substance or value for the gamer .

and they have no interest in retaining core mech warrior fans, as this demographic is considered unattainable and has unrealistic expectations for the game .

Therefore they will cater to the general fps gamer and mine them for dollars until that base is dried up . they will then shut down mwo citing lack of player response and that the fan base never materialized.

[RussianWolf]

Apology accepted, but my money will be staying in my pocket until I see the game going in a better direction. I had fun this evening on the MW:LL servers.

I still am not happy with the way 3pv allows for focused fire when someone tries to get a peak without using it. It is as if it can be used as the ultimate anti-ecm (back when ecm was so overpowered at to be ridiculous).

When I signed on for the Founders I had so much hope for this game. Then I was disappointed by Solaris VII being "years away" and no free-for-all environment for solos to really shine (not all of us want to play in groups). Then All the little things that have come along the way. I just played Warthunder for the first time. They have a nice, simple 5 minute tutorial that gets you up to speed nicely. Nothing like that here and you are about to launch??????

WAKE UP!!!! YOU AREN"T READY!!!!


I continue to hope for this game, but I've been burned by you guys too often to drink any more of the koolaid.

[Zeus X]

Hold on here, let me get me dive suit on. Seems we are going to swim this ocean of sh|t that Russ calls an apology.

Remove 3PV and maybe, JUST MAYBE, we will accept this so called apology.

Edited by DCM Zeus, 21 August 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[Rashkae]

LOL this thread died because everyone continued in the apology feedback thread.

[Jack Gallows]

Anyone asking for 3PV to be removed is delusional. There's no way PGI is going to take out a feature they took time and money to design, even if they did basically drop it on us (intentional lack of communication or not.)

The only real outcome is to voice your opinion with your wallet and game time...or lack there of. If you can stand to get past how PGI treats it's community, however you see that as, then you keep going. If you don't...spread the word and don't give them any more time or money.

Their apology, while appreciative of it's intended effect, to me shows a pretty big disconnect in what the playerbase actually cares about and really wants. You can claim that maybe we don't always know whats best for us....but 3PV is NOT a new concept and has been used in many games to give us the experience we need to know it's a horrid idea for MW:O. Even playing a bit with it today to help showcase how it's a bad idea, I've seen people abuse it in competitive matches. Puggers still can't hit the broad side of the barn because now they'll use it as a crutch, while pro players exploit it for their own game. Hell, even part of the apology feels more like a slap in the face then it does as a balm.

No risk/reward for scouting anymore, can't hide or sneak around maps or find a better position cause everyone can see what you're doing. And now it may never go away...or I should say most likely will not.

Predictions are that if they feel they don't want to segregate the player base now, they're not going to do it when Community Warfare hits. They'll figure it's too cruel to let Timmy sit in the small kid pool while 99% of everyone else goes on to play CW, especially when they will want CW accessible to everyone!

Separate queue's won't happen.

[Arizona]

Very well Russ, but at this point it looks like I have lost half of my team due to your error in communication. We have over 80 people in House Jurai who regularly played MWO. As of right now I know of at least 20, if not a full 40 that have either uninstalled MWO or who will no longer be playing 12v12s. It may not seem that bad, but those are the ones who make up more than half of our 12v12 drop team. We have fielded as many as 4 8v8 teams at once and 2 12v12 teams (at once) in the last month. I think no more. While I don't have the time to be a Warlord for the House and one of the top leaders, I can say from my over 12 years fully that position, my team will not be so forgiving. You can say opps, but what counts is where and when the tire hits the road. A lot of my team are either in the military (multi country) or like me, have been on active duty. As an ex-officer I hold people to a higher standard. I really don't see such standard being held here. As we say in the US Air Force, 'one "One 'oh-****" wipes out all your "at-a-boys' ". Guest what you just had. An apology is good, but now you all have to get with the follow up actions and the program to make good on your recovery and your apology.

Its up to you guys on whither or not this game lives or dies. Enough said.

[Killashnikov]

Your Friend Mr Rogers, on 21 August 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

I don't see the problem with it, but what does it matter. I am saying that the game play itself has not changed one bit for me. Now I do understand the people who are angry about PGI blatantly lying. The people that are saying the 3pv is OP or whatever, I really don't see it even with the fancy diagram posted many times though out this topic. I don't see it, because when I am actually playing the game nothing is unfair or different.


As for corning peaking...
1. you do not have a radar
2. your sensors still won't be able to pick them up
3. they will know your there, because of the blinky drone
As for poptarting...
1. The blinky drone offsets that a bit
As for scouting...
1. THE GOSH DAMN BLINKY DRONE
2. can't receive target info
3. sensors will not pickup enemies(yes I know you can type their locations and type of mech, but without loadout info what does it matter?)

Above all else I never see anyone ever use it...

Does anyone else see the point I am trying to make!

Ah I think I see the disconnect - if you are on team comms then it doesn't matter if they know you are there, it wont be you sniping - at least not alone. All you have to do is say alpha in the open and everyone els can go up fo the shot - while they deal with that you can take yours. Trust me it takes a VERY good player to sit and take incoming fire and still be ready enough to hit me when I pop out for a shot...

[Xiphias]

Your Friend Mr Rogers, on 21 August 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

[Snip]
I don't see it, because when I am actually playing the game nothing is unfair or different.

As for corning peaking...
1. you do not have a radar
2. your sensors still won't be able to pick them up
3. they will know your there, because of the blinky drone
As for poptarting...
1. The blinky drone offsets that a bit
As for scouting...
1. THE GOSH DAMN BLINKY DRONE
2. can't receive target info
3. sensors will not pickup enemies(yes I know you can type their locations and type of mech, but without loadout info what does it matter?)

Above all else I never see anyone ever use it...

Does anyone else see the point I am trying to make!

Random drops aren't the biggest issue with third person view. A good player will definitely take advantage of it but it's probably not game breaking.

As to your points against third person let me say this, Teamspeak, Mumble, Ventrilo, Skype. Do you see the point I'm trying to make?

No radar? My buddy standing beside me in first person still has his. Sensors? Still has his. Only knowing position and type? I could target them in first person, except that they have ECM. Blinking light? What do I care if the enemy knows where one light mech is but cannot shoot me? I can gain information on multiple mechs at the cost of give away the position of only one. That's still much safer than being seen and being able to be shot at while scouting. Also, the drone doesn't show up on sensors. My Jenner does.

In regards to jump sniping. I can see when the other team looks away and/or fires a salvo, then I know when it's safe to jump.

I don't mean to come across as rude, but these are some of the big problems with third person view.

[Mista Whizzard]

Arizona, on 21 August 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Very well Russ, but at this point it looks like I have lost half of my team due to your error in communication. We have over 80 people in House Jurai who regularly played MWO. As of right now I know of at least 20, if not a full 40 that have either uninstalled MWO or who will no longer be playing 12v12s. It may not seem that bad, but those are the ones who make up more than half of our 12v12 drop team. We have fielded as many as 4 8v8 teams at once and 2 12v12 teams (at once) in the last month. I think no more. While I don't have the time to be a Warlord for the House and one of the top leaders, I can say from my over 12 years fully that position, my team will not be so forgiving. You can say opps, but what counts is where and when the tire hits the road. A lot of my team are either in the military (multi country) or like me, have been on active duty. As an ex-officer I hold people to a higher standard. I really don't see such standard being held here. As we say in the US Air Force, 'one "One 'oh-****" wipes out all your "at-a-boys' ". Guest what you just had. An apology is good, but now you all have to get with the follow up actions and the program to make good on your recovery and your apology.

Its up to you guys on whither or not this game lives or dies. Enough said.

There are many of us that are in the same boat - People feeling this way need to be checking this thread out, and supporting and also supporting #savemwo.

http://mwomercs.com/...-the-community/

Whiz.

[NATIONALCAPITALGAMING]

PGI,

Don't listen to those here saying no advantage exists. If you have to, find a volunteer on here to ghost around and watch how they exploit it. They will do you one better than your cheerleaders will.

I love the game. But please, make those separate playlists. If the community doesn't want to be divided, they'll choose the general pool. But if most choose the 1PV only list...I think you have your answer as to what the people want.

[KitK]

grayson marik, on 21 August 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

After almost 2 years of beta... where the hell do you take your optimism from?

Well, that made me laugh and is a good probing question, so I'll field it. Your right, my optimism does seem a bit unwarranted at the present juncture. Thus, I must be either an *****, or as some have suggested, "new here." Basically, it is my opinion that much of the dissenting stance regarding broken "promises" is really baseless, and that much of the fear of 3PV is fueled by negative experience in prior MW titles and/or other games that have used it, rather than on this game's implementation of it. So many people threatened to hate this feature two years ago if it ever happened that it is hard now to take them seriously, since their minds were already made up. So, I don't buy into most of the dissenting arguments, making my optimism more of a hard-headed, obstinate, refusal to join these hyperbolically negative bandwagons than it is any actual form of hope. This manifests itself in my occasionally making a meager (and drowned out) attempt to point out a potential positive spin on a developer's statement that highlights an inconsistency in the dissenters' behavior/demands. One might more accurately accuse me of trolling with happy thoughts than having optimism.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

KitK, on 21 August 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Well, that made me laugh and is a good probing question, so I'll field it. Your right, my optimism does seem a bit unwarranted at the present juncture. Thus, I must be either an *****, or as some have suggested, "new here." Basically, it is my opinion that much of the dissenting stance regarding broken "promises" is really baseless, and that much of the fear of 3PV is fueled by negative experience in prior MW titles and/or other games that have used it, rather than on this game's implementation of it. So many people threatened to hate this feature two years ago if it ever happened that it is hard now to take them seriously, since their minds were already made up. So, I don't buy into most of the dissenting arguments, making my optimism more of a hard-headed, obstinate, refusal to join these hyperbolically negative bandwagons than it is any actual form of hope. This manifests itself in my occasionally making a meager (and drowned out) attempt to point out a potential positive spin on a developer's statement that highlights an inconsistency in the dissenters' behavior/demands. One might more accurately accuse me of trolling with happy thoughts than having optimism.

We have seen where 3rd person in mechwarrior leads.

Those who do not take heed are doomed to repeat the past.

[3Xtr3m3]

3Xtr3m3, on 20 August 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

<snip>
So Believe me when I say, "This 3pv in every match is a mistake."
And you should know better.. You promised them something, and a screenshot earlier says it is possible
I can not think of a single reason possible to make that promise and then not deliver on it.
If you have a great reason, ffs post it and convince us.
<The important part>
AFTER you have kept your promise to the community about never having to play with or against 3pv. It is the only way forward at this point.
.

3Xtr3m3

And what do I do with this mega pack of Microwave popcorn?
anywho, carry on .

[DjPush]

So...... There is a blinking probe over your head giving away your position. Arms locked, slower rotation, cross hairs teleport making accuracy an issue and the zoom sucks too. The 3rd person view is OP and I want a refund! Also, its the UAV and seismic sensor make it too easy to know the enemies location! This is not how the game is played on table top. REFUND!!