597 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

PappySmurf, on 25 November 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

PGI is a successful, veteran game developer. You don't last over a decade in this industry without being able to do something right. It's a pretty cutthroat industry.

Sorry WRONG!!! PGI is nothing more than a corporate raider preying on older popular IP's to suck the life and money out of players still loyal to that IP. PGI has never made a successful game out of any IP they have ever acquired and MWO is going down the drain just like all the rest of there ventures as soon as the money flow stops.

Then they will find a new old IP to redo again and suck the life and money out of new fans and players.

[Navy Sixes]

Join me in keeping this thread alive and at the top of "MWO In the News" until the final collapse of western civilization

#savegamefront:acautionarytale:therageofthemechwarriorcommunity

[Sandpit]

Tycho von Gagern, on 27 November 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Join me in keeping this thread alive and at the top of "MWO In the News" until the final collapse of western civilization

#savegamefront:acautionarytale:therageofthemechwarriorcommunity

Now THIS needs a petition
and a poll
and it's own website
and an award
and to be nerfed
and to be buffed
and to be removed
and to be "fixed"
and to be balanced
and to be pinned
and to be stickied

[MadcatX]

Sandpit, on 28 November 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Now THIS needs a petition
and a poll
and it's own website
and an award
and to be nerfed
and to be buffed
and to be removed
and to be "fixed"
and to be balanced
and to be pinned
and to be stickied

Soon.

[Sidekick]

Nobody is forced to post in this thread that has little to do with the 3PV affair as a whole.

But iconically and/or ironically, everybody will. Exept the 12-man-boogeyman.

[RG Notch]

MadcatX, on 28 November 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Soon.

Can't do any of that until UI 2.0.

[mekabuser]

RG Notch, on 28 November 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Can't do any of that until UI 2.0.

take a look at the feedback thread and despair

[Galenit]

Tombstoner, on 08 November 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

you either read and accept the Eula as legally binding or you dont use the product. that how it should work.

In germany the eula is only legal if you get it (can read it) pre buying something. If its in the software or printed in the box, its has no legal meanings. Clickig OK during installation is not making it legal, if you could not read it pre buying.

This judical decision was made in a court proceeding of the Bundesgerichtshof.
http://en.wikipedia....ndesgerichtshof

It was about a company that sells used software against microsoft and their windows eula.
(This is the reference number of the decision: BGH 1 ZR 244/97)

Edited by Galenit, 29 November 2013 - 02:45 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Galenit, on 29 November 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:

In germany the eula is only legal if you get it (can read it) pre buying something.

Doesn't matter here.

[FromHell2k]

How to explain MWO - From developers to users..

[Diego Angelus]

FromHell2k, on 01 December 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

How to explain MWO - From developers to users..

full of win

[miliardo]

FromHell2k, on 01 December 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

How to explain MWO - From developers to users..

LMAO

[Silent]

lmao lol epic win for the lulz XD

(Put that cat down)

Edited by Silent, 02 December 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[SirLANsalot]

John MatriX82, on 30 August 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

So here's an article by GameFront worth THREE pages about what's happening between our community and PGI: ->>LINK<<-

So, it breaks down every single aspect of what happened so far that led many (me included) to distrust PGI in developing MWO. I still have a little faith that this kind of news will make them realize that launch won't do anything good to the game, but here's a list of the most notable passages (imho).

"Ghost Heat is a system in which players receive penalties to heat generation (that is, they generate more heat) if they fire more than a certain number of weapons of the same type at a time. But the system shipped with a number of problems.

First, it is completely undocumented in the game itself and incredibly newbie unfriendly; only those that read the forums are familiar with the feature, and even then, they only received data about how the system worked after harassing PGI for more details. Second, Ghost Heat hurts ‘Mechs that relied on large alphas of low-damage weapons: ‘Mechs like the Hunchback 4P, whose strategy is to “boat,” or equip as many of certain weapons as possible. Third, the system ended up being applied to weapons that didn’t need a nerf thanks to their already low viability, like the Autocannon/2 or Long-Range Missile/10."

This is well known, they applied it to everything rather then just to the 3 energy weapons it needed to be applied to. Everything else was fine as is.

Quote

"After the patch that included third-person view was set live, the forums exploded in what can only be described as a mushroom cloud of hate. The responses to the patch notes were overwhelmingly negative, and countless threads sprang up slandering PGI. Users began changing their forum signatures to mock PGI’s competence, trolls openly started flame wars, and every developer post was met with a degree of hostility that — while not quite as bad as the likes of Call of Duty players (NSFW) — boggled the mind in its totality."

That cloud was made by the [people] out there who are very few, dedicated, people but are very misguided. 3PV wasn't the major "OMG Game breaker" they all made it out to be. The fact cannot be denied that no one but a very very very few people actually use it. In over 300 games, I myself can count on one hand the amount of people I have seen use it after I die myself (number is 3). Game is too chaotic to even use it to "peek" over ridges or around corners, and those in 1PV (the elitists) should be good enough pilots to counteract any other "advantage" someone might be trying to use. Good Piloting and Gunnery Skills go 100x farther then using a different viewing angle. I myself use 1P, and have no issues with people using 3P at all.

Quote

And mostly notable:

At the end of this long history is one question: Does the Mechwarrior Online community have the right to be so angry?

The answer: absolutely.

answer is: NO

Failed reading comprehension and failure to understand how game development goes is why people get mad at PGI. Those of us who DO understand these things, just wait it out and know of whats to come even tho things might be incomplete now or placeholders. Some do understand that those placeholders lead to far better things.

Quote

And finally:

"Mechwarrior Online’s road to launch is a cautionary consumer tale, fraught with anger and betrayal. It shows how a company can take a fan base dedicated to an old IP and completely alienate it through lack of communication, unpopular features, and oathbreaking. It shows how players need to be cautious of supporting a project based solely on the IP backing it."

Refer to prior quote.






Am I a white knight here to save PGI? Yes, because I actually have a Brain and can think without having my emotions influence my judgement. I challenge any of the doomsayer ***** out there, to do the same, you will be singing a different tune very shortly.

Edited by miSs, 04 December 2013 - 10:23 AM.

[MadcatX]

SirLANsalot, on 03 December 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

This is well known, they applied it to everything rather then just to the 3 energy weapons it needed to be applied to. Everything else was fine as is.



That cloud was made by the [people] out there who are very few, dedicated, people but are very misguided. 3PV wasn't the major "OMG Game breaker" they all made it out to be. The fact cannot be denied that no one but a very very very few people actually use it. In over 300 games, I myself can count on one hand the amount of people I have seen use it after I die myself (number is 3). Game is too chaotic to even use it to "peek" over ridges or around corners, and those in 1PV (the elitists) should be good enough pilots to counteract any other "advantage" someone might be trying to use. Good Piloting and Gunnery Skills go 100x farther then using a different viewing angle. I myself use 1P, and have no issues with people using 3P at all.



answer is: NO

Failed reading comprehension and failure to understand how game development goes is why people get mad at PGI. Those of us who DO understand these things, just wait it out and know of whats to come even tho things might be incomplete now or placeholders. Some do understand that those placeholders lead to far better things.



Refer to prior quote.






Am I a white knight here to save PGI? Yes, because I actually have a Brain and can think without having my emotions influence my judgement. I challenge any of the doomsayer ***** out there, to do the same, you will be singing a different tune very shortly.

Challenge accepted.

I used to be a white knight during the beta days with my mighty battle cry of "It's still in beta". And then the game decided to go from beta to live. And our battle cry changed to "it just came out". Part of me thought that that didn't make a whole lot of sense, but I ran with the new slogan.

Then that eventually changed to "Be patient" and "You don't understand the development process". At this point, I could no longer defend this game in a logical debate, just make up justifications and essentially do the same as PGI did to me... promise that if people just wait, great things will come!

But before they can really get going, they have to resolve the current hit box issues. The game launched with hit box issues? I can't defend that at all! And I didn't even bother going with "you don't understand F2P / development process", since I don't even understand PGI's current development process, they seem to be unable to keep to an established set of goals and have a knack of adding a new ones to the top of the list. Right now the most confusing thing is that PGI cannot provide me with their current developments because they're busy building a video format to let us know of their current developments.

One thing I've seen industry-wide is games launching with missing parts.. no lobbies, full of placeholders, under the false sense of security because "the game will never be complete, it will always be in development".

But then, after some time, the game has finally completed everything it had set out to do. The new battle cry is "Come back and try the game, everything is implemented and it's awesome now!" to those who were told to be patient. And even when that is the case, a certain percentage of those players who've moved on to play other games while they wait will say "Well I'm already playing this other game". Sometimes an F2P gets lucky and receives a "second" launch, something happens that makes the game show up on the mainstream gaming radar again and gets reviewers and social media talking again.

Ok, so I'm not a fully-fledged doomsayer. However I do acknowledge the fact that the potential for this game not to pan out does exist. It could also become wildly successful.

[Ryoken]

I also think this "cautionary" article isn't cautionary at all but biased, as it does not debate on the advantages the changes will bring to mwo. And this is highly reprehensible as it distracts readers from the changes intentions and denying further constructive discussion!
So the apocalypse moaning mob should better start thinking and use its brain to understand that game development can not go on without change. I challange you to see both sides of the changes and think of ways of development that facilitate the advantages of both worlds!
(And please be fair even if your beloved PPC/Gauss poptart or monolaser derbbuild does not work anymore - it might have been some kind of abusing the system of you, didn't it?)

Raging about 3rd person view?
Pro:
It is ment to simplify access to the game for new players which is an absolutely good thing. The faster the mechwarrior community grows the more diverse the game will get!
Con:
The 3rd person view is accused to give an unfair advantage over players who refuse to make use of it.
My thoughts:
Well I mostly use 3rd person view to watch my shiny new paint job. For playing I prefer the cockpit view as it provides a lot more data to the pilot and also has a better match of line of sight and line of fire from my weapons. Also in 3rd person view the bright blinking drone gives away your position. So I think PGI did a nice job getting new players in the game more easy while also giving incentive to those players to use the advantageous pilot view.
Constructive suggestion:
To smother those accusing the 3rd person view to be an unfair advantage to experienced players using both view modes in an unfair manner it's use could be restricted to a certain amount of battles like the cadet bonus.

Raging about ghost heat?
Pro:
Well it is ment to avoid weapon monocultures. It reminds me of the tabletop when everyone could modify ones mech as he wishes. Soon there will be only max armor 5/8/5 PPC&ML only builds! So the ghost heat mechanism does a good job to keep mechs the weapon branch combining walking tanks instead of getting walking PPC- or ML-turrets!
Con:
Some mechs, that heavily rely on grouped identical weapons do suffer a lot, which makes them up to unplayable to some players.
My thoughts:
As I stated above I do welcome this mechanism to keep all kinds of weapons in the game. Good players even manage to aquire very good timing skills to still make use of grouped identical weapons, so those who cry to loud may just be not willing to learn how to use those weapons adapting to the new game mechanism.
Constructive suggestion:
To save mechs like the Awesome or the Hunchback P, there could be a reduced ghost heat factor to "hardpoint native weapons". This would only apply if the stock weapon in it's original hardpoint is used. So changing an native medium laser into a medium pulse laser, ppc or large laser would cancel this effect.
In this point also thinking about "hardpoint native weapon types" may be for discussion. By "mech native weapon types" a player could change a laser/PPC into its pulse/ER-variant without canceling the effect.

Raging about jump shake?
Pro:
Easily this is to avoid people from poptarting.
Con:
Players who envisioned in playing highly mobile sniper mechs loose the opportunity to place shots in flight.
My thoughts:
Well rooting back to the table top or the novels I have never experienced much emphasising on jump-sniping. In fact jump jets are used to get to position otherwise inaccessable by foot and the jumping itself gave a big malus (+3) on shooting. There was no option to just jump up and down in one hex and place shots. So I think to not depress the jump jets shaking by the mechs targeting computer is a nice idea to stick to the jump jets original intention with an in game physicle reason.
Constructive suggestion:
Well as I am fine with the solution, but might glance the point of lament from some sniper mech players i suggest this: What about allowing some mech designs to reduce jump shake on carefully selected hardpoints. This may be by default on certain mech chassis or may be an individual pilot skill only available on certain mech chassis. By saying this I have weapons like the hand mounted PPC of the Panther or the Griffin in mind. All those mobile sniping mechs that rely heavily on those single weapons would be enabled to fullfill their role better - and still weapon massing alpha strike jumptards stand no chance abusing the game system.

So what do you think?

See ya on our battlefield mechwarriors!

Edited by Ryoken, 03 December 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Tsen Shang]

Ryoken, on 03 December 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

I also think this "cautionary" article isn't cautionary at all but biased, as it does not debate on the advantages the changes will bring to mwo. And this is highly reprehensible as it distracts readers from the changes intentions and denying further constructive discussion!
So the apocalypse moaning mob should better start thinking and use its brain to understand that game development can not go on without change. I challange you to see both sides of the changes and think of ways of development that facilitate the advantages of both worlds!
(And please be fair even if your beloved PPC/Gauss poptart or monolaser derbbuild does not work anymore - it might have been some kind of abusing the system of you, didn't it?)

Small tweaks to a system they've had in place since beta do not mean progression for a game.

After your girlfriend promises to stop drinking and stop punching you the 12th time, you kinda just realize what's done is done, cut your losses, and move out. Let me know how your hope and change goes.

[Heffay]

Tsen Shang, on 03 December 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

Small tweaks to a system they've had in place since beta do not mean progression for a game.

After your girlfriend promises to stop drinking and stop punching you the 12th time, you kinda just realize what's done is done, cut your losses, and move out. Let me know how your hope and change goes.

Comparing a video game to domestic abuse is pretty pathetic.

[Tombstoner]

Ryoken, on 03 December 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Raging about ghost heat?
Pro:
Well it is ment to avoid weapon monocultures. It reminds me of the tabletop when everyone could modify ones mech as he wishes. Soon there will be only max armor 5/8/5 PPC&ML only builds! So the ghost heat mechanism does a good job to keep mechs the weapon branch combining walking tanks instead of getting walking PPC- or ML-turrets!
Con:
Some mechs, that heavily rely on grouped identical weapons do suffer a lot, which makes them up to unplayable to some players.
My thoughts:
As I stated above I do welcome this mechanism to keep all kinds of weapons in the game. Good players even manage to aquire very good timing skills to still make use of grouped identical weapons, so those who cry to loud may just be not willing to learn how to use those weapons adapting to the new game mechanism.
Constructive suggestion:
To save mechs like the Awesome or the Hunchback P, there could be a reduced ghost heat factor to "hardpoint native weapons". This would only apply if the stock weapon in it's original hardpoint is used. So changing an native medium laser into a medium pulse laser, ppc or large laser would cancel this effect.
In this point also thinking about "hardpoint native weapon types" may be for discussion. By "mech native weapon types" a player could change a laser/PPC into its pulse/ER-variant without canceling the effect.

Ghost heat should have taken into consideration stock loadout's. if your running stock you dont suffer from any ghost heat regardless of configuration. This will eliminate any issues for new players not understanding what happening when they melt down. If however you decide to customize your mech then ghost heat comes into effect at 100%.

[Kaijin]

Tombstoner, on 04 December 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

Ghost heat should have taken into consideration stock loadout's. if your running stock you dont suffer from any ghost heat regardless of configuration. This will eliminate any issues for new players not understanding what happening when they melt down. If however you decide to customize your mech then ghost heat comes into effect at 100%.

So a stock Awesome would have no ghost heat, but put 3 PPCs on a custom mech and you get ghost heat? Like that's not confusing.