833 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

NoXHeart, on 03 September 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

PPCs may not be sniper weapons, but the fact is they are long range weapons that were fighting on part with shorter range weapons. You can't expect to be able to hit brawler focused mechs at distance when they can't hit you at all because they're packing close range weapons, then when they close the distance still be able to compete with them, they deserve the advantage after they close that gap.

Long range weapons might be usable at short range still, but they simply should not be able compete equally with short range weapons in brawler combat, otherwise it's simply unfair.

PPC's did less damage under 90m, and ERPPC's have always been so hot that they can only be fired a couple of times before needing to cool down, and if the mech has other energy weapons for close range (like most mechs) then the heat down not go down as long as the mech is using those weapons.
My K2 only has 2xML's and 2xMG's for close range fighting. When i'm using the ML's the heat goes down very slowly and i can barely fire the ERPPC's in a brawl. Even changing those two ML's to MPL's means the heat does not drop, with 20DHS.
I've won 3 vs 1 brawls in my K2 for one reason only. Those who decided to brawl with me were not using brawling mechs.
I think that's another part of the problem with peoples idea that PPC's are not brawler weapons. They think everything else is.

Edit: Forgot to add, the ER/PPC's weigh 7 tons. If you have 7 tons worth of smaller weapons (which a brawler should have) then you easily out-DPS the bigger weapons.


Also, PGI...great start to the tutorials. I think a voice actor might work better but it's good as it is too. Oh, for some reason there were blue boxes all over in the tutorial though, in the distance.

The new movement speed though, feels too fast. 65ton mechs feel like they are skipping lightly across the landscape. But then, i always felt that mechs were moving too fast

Edited by Wolfways, 03 September 2013 - 09:55 PM.

[Humminbird]

Brawling is back!!! Love this patch. Play the game and see. Brawlers gotta brawl.

[Grimmnyr]

(ORION!)

[Shiro Kell]

All of the support I see coming in for this patch is rediculous. The Gauss rifle nerf is unwarranted and unneeded, its as simple as that. In fact let me go so far as to say, all of the damage, heat, ammo ammounts, armour changes etc are all unneeded and unwarranted and have been put in place but a set of staff that have no idea why they are making the changes, other than the fact that people are complaining so there must be the need to change something.

I know it has been said before but it needs to be said again. Board game rules and stats already have balance included with the balance being between heat, damage, range, weight and ammo load. The only things that should require adjustment, in order for these stats to translate into a computer game, are FIRE RATE and TRAVEL TIME. Board game rules are based on 6 second rounds but obviously this does not translate into the PC game environment, therefore, tweaking of fire rates is the primary method for weapon balance within this environment. If a weapon is dominating beyond its normal parameters, simply decrease the fire rate (increase cool down time) or increase the travel time to target.

Besides board game rules, which not everyone appreciates, this is the simplest method for modifying weapon balance while being easily tracking balance changes. The fact that this has not occurred speaks volumes for PGIs technical know-how.

My biggest and final complaint is that the patch has done next to nothing to alleviate the lag lead time required to hit mechs, especially when up close. The spider is still almost unhitable within 250m on a 250+ ping (which most Australians have).

[Lamda]

What does this remind me off...
Oh yeah, The first round of guild wars nerfing that killed nearly 1/2 of the player base. I dont mind the PPCs i never used more than 2 so im not disagreeing with it.

Heres what i have a problem with.
Why not try different ways of dealing with snipers if one proves ineffective try another since you cant narrow down what is really causing the problem. Why should the gauss suffer a charge up time since i dont see in any version of battletech to throw dice to make sure its charge up. The gauss rifle itself can explosed if a crit is done on it and its equal to a gauss round to the interal which on a x3 could be horrible. I dont think huge weapon nerfs should be the priority of the devolpers at the current moment. This problem already has a article complaing about bad the situation is. That now gives them a negative reputation and i would hate to see another WARZ problem here.

Its like walking a tight line and having to pick what to do. You have to accominate the new players while keep older players around. I heard about all the founders and project refunds and i wonder how much time it is before we start seeing the game die due to wrong patch updates. If you guys want complain that there are many of people like me crying about it and i would you to look at the stats no one wanted third person and there is no hardcore queue.

I really hope things get better to end the community and developer war.

[Punk Oblivion]

Well after some playing around, here are my thoughts on the Gauss:

1) The charge up sound needs to be a little louder. You kind of lose track of it in the midst of battle, also a sound could be added to denote the cooldown ending? That way you can play this weapon completely by sound.

2) I would also like the charge to be held a bit longer, maybe 2-2.5 seconds, sometimes the one second hold is a little short to line up a good shot when sniping.

3) Since we are taking time to charge up weapons and line up shots, a slight reduction to cooldown seems to be in order, and acceptable.

[CyberRage]

Seems pretty pointless to use (ER)PPC over (ER)LL now.

[Mynder]

To the marketing team: You should have delayed the Sabre package until after this patch - a much larger number of players would have gained/maintained a degree of hope and good faith in the future of this game, resulting in more packages sold.

The Orion (ORION), PPC/Gauss balancing (ORION), A Tutorial (ORION)...sure, balancing will always be a controversial topic (ORION), but your devteam finally (this is what it feels like to many here) addressed some very sore spots (ORION).

Oh, and can I say, we finally get the Orion?

Sell your goodies on a high note, not during one of the worst shitstorms in history...unless the only point was to see how many people would still buy it, even while the forums go down in flames.

[Flying Judgement]

Lailoken, on 03 September 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

I really like the idea of the gauss charge up.. but the PPC/ERPPC heat increase is too much, I thought the heat levels last patch were fine and with the gauss charge they'd be good. It makes the stock ppc Awesomes pointless. My aws-9m with 2 erppc and 19 dhs should be able to keep up a near constant barrage of erppc. I mean whats the point in squeezing in that many dhs?

The 0 ppc damage under 90m is a good idea though.

im fine in my 9M with 2 ER PPC and 1 PPC + 2 SSRM SPEED 84
I can make 60 damage in 5 second and still able to run or hide behind cower get a new sniping position and cool down in a few second then strike again its 60 damage in 5 second thats huge i have no problem with lights either so PPC is in the right place
i doing average 300- 450 damage + - 200

Oh and i love the fact that me and 2 more mech is the only sniper. in one mach and not every one!

i tried the gauss and the buff was great they are really easy to use nice. love the cockpit going dark when ready to shoot its makes it really easy to use.
i packed just one gauss in my Black Jack and made 260 damage first try they a bit to strong now

[Lex Peregrine]

Orion looks cool, love the way the chassis changes when you remove or add weapons.

Gauss changes are not bad, makes it hard to use at short range like it should, agree with the sugestion of making charge time slightly longer and increase sound feedback.

PPCs, they are supposed to fire a Beam of ions, not a projectile! And you make them even slower??

Here's my view of how ppc should work in this thread:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2721967

[segeri9]

so far, loving the patch. the ppc nerfs aren't as bad as it seems since just gotta manage the heat with 2 ppcs. i've managed a few wins with my k2. the advanced zoom is definitely useful now, just wishing i had more so i didnt have to keep transferring it.XD the tutorial is a good step in the right direction, but i find that the lack of explanation of how to group your weapons and that the mech used doesn't have missiles a slight issue. would be nice to clear that up for newbies. and might be good to put the tutorial button a bit more obvious, but i'll save that judgement for UI 2.0.

now, I just find the movement thing weird. i understand the purpose, but really, a k2 hobbling at full speed is hilarious.)

as for the gauss, the concept is good, but maybe it's best to emulate another sniper weapon from another game. it still uses a chargeup, but it fires immediately once its full. makes the whole timing thing less of an issue, but still keeps the ppc gauss alpha in check. at least, that's my suggestion. otherwise, maybe just tweaking the cooldown times a bit, both charge up and refire, etc.

all in all, i like the patch. takes a bit more skill to use those old high alpha builds, so servers aren't swarmed by them as much. makes brawling much more enjoyable.

[BOWMANGR]

I'm extremely happy with this patch. It really is a step in the right direction. I was sceptical about dumbing down the game fro the masses after 3pv patch but the latest patch is all about adding a little more skill into the equation.

Of course people will still qq, it's obvious that those exploiting some game mechanics will come out of the woodwork to complain that they cannot use their skillless combos anymore.

Keep making weapon diversity changes, forcing players to play better rather than rely on "the flavor of the week" weapon. I was a "free 2 play" gamer but now you are going to get some money. Keep it up!

Medium mechs, Single Heatsinks, Flamers and below 100% Heat penalties are some of the things that I'd also like to see addressed.

woohoo!

[Marineballer]

Good job PGI.

I like the new patch!

[Kattspya]

Shiro Kell, on 03 September 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

All of the support I see coming in for this patch is rediculous. The Gauss rifle nerf is unwarranted and unneeded, its as simple as that. In fact let me go so far as to say, all of the damage, heat, ammo ammounts, armour changes etc are all unneeded and unwarranted and have been put in place but a set of staff that have no idea why they are making the changes, other than the fact that people are complaining so there must be the need to change something.

I know it has been said before but it needs to be said again. Board game rules and stats already have balance included with the balance being between heat, damage, range, weight and ammo load. The only things that should require adjustment, in order for these stats to translate into a computer game, are FIRE RATE and TRAVEL TIME. Board game rules are based on 6 second rounds but obviously this does not translate into the PC game environment, therefore, tweaking of fire rates is the primary method for weapon balance within this environment. If a weapon is dominating beyond its normal parameters, simply decrease the fire rate (increase cool down time) or increase the travel time to target.

Besides board game rules, which not everyone appreciates, this is the simplest method for modifying weapon balance while being easily tracking balance changes. The fact that this has not occurred speaks volumes for PGIs technical know-how.

My biggest and final complaint is that the patch has done next to nothing to alleviate the lag lead time required to hit mechs, especially when up close. The spider is still almost unhitable within 250m on a 250+ ping (which most Australians have).

Did you notice that playing with dice and aiming with a mouse is different?

Besides ER/PPC just got closer to tabletop with heat and min range. That is three changes toward TT and one away from it with gauss delay. You should be happy about this patch. They started out with pseudo TT values it really did not work.

If you have problems with lights (spider is bugged though) 1v1 you probably are aiming with dice or boating lrms. Put some time in lights and you will know how to defeat them. Keep your calm and have an engine that makes you go faster than 50kmh. In a standard non damaged DDC I can scare away up to three lights when pugging. All you need to do is keep calm and be able to aim but that last part takes skill and maybe youth.

P.S. just saw that you are an Aussie so hit detection is probably horrific for you. Sorry about that but do you really think the game should be balanced around your faulty hit detection?

[Maris]

Eh i'm liking this.

Even if 3PV is still a sore point, I'm actually considering throwing money at PGI for this patch. Hoping for more good stuffs in coming patches.

Keep up the good work, PGI

[mack sabbath]

I just had a weird glitch in Testing Grounds, where, A. My Orion was back in it's stock paint, B. Hitting overide, my mech refused to overheat in anyway to blow stuff up...I kept trying for the screenshot lol!

The next two runs / mechs, all was okay again, including that 3 UAC/5 macro!

Edited by Die Primate Die, 04 September 2013 - 01:44 AM.

[ShinVector]

Kattspya, on 04 September 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

Did you notice that playing with dice and aiming with a mouse is different?

Besides ER/PPC just got closer to tabletop with heat and min range. That is three changes toward TT and one away from it with gauss delay. You should be happy about this patch. They started out with pseudo TT values it really did not work.

If you have problems with lights (spider is bugged though) 1v1 you probably are aiming with dice or boating lrms. Put some time in lights and you will know how to defeat them. Keep your calm and have an engine that makes you go faster than 50kmh. In a standard non damaged DDC I can scare away up to three lights when pugging. All you need to do is keep calm and be able to aim but that last part takes skill and maybe youth.

P.S. just saw that you are an Aussie so hit detection is probably horrific for you. Sorry about that but do you really think the game should be balanced around your faulty hit detection?

Ohhhh... These low ping elitist again...

[Smitti]

I'll wear the additional PPC heat but the reduction in velocity is a bit overboard IMHO...

@Kattspya

And why should those of us who don't live nice and close have to suffer with hit detection? Guarantee you'd change your tune if you lived on the other side of the planet.

Edited by Smittiferous, 04 September 2013 - 02:10 AM.

[Rhakhas]

gauss change: - like (I may actually start using one now that it has decent projectile speed)

Kintaro hitbox change: - LIKE

tutorial: - 'bout time (It's good, though voice-over would be nice at some point)

(er)ppc changes: - "hm... this might hurt my K2. And I looove my K2..." (2 erppc + lazerz)
* takes K2 out for a spin *
- 730 dmg & 3 kills later: "Nope, they didn't break the ppc. Just broke the bad pilots"

[Haakon Magnusson]

Punk Oblivion, on 03 September 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

Well after some playing around, here are my thoughts on the Gauss:

1) The charge up sound needs to be a little louder. You kind of lose track of it in the midst of battle, also a sound could be added to denote the cooldown ending? That way you can play this weapon completely by sound.

2) I would also like the charge to be held a bit longer, maybe 2-2.5 seconds, sometimes the one second hold is a little short to line up a good shot when sniping.

3) Since we are taking time to charge up weapons and line up shots, a slight reduction to cooldown seems to be in order, and acceptable.

Agree with 1 and 2, with regards to shot being ready I would like a visual indication as well... add a change to targeting reticule when it is ready (a lit circle around it when ready, that diminishes away as you are losing charge)

I ended up losing a lot of shots as charge ran out while waiting for a good aim. Likewise let go off a few into empty air when there still was charge. Although I note that most shots I lost because charge ran out was up close, so it is sort of doing it's thing, could be a little longer tho.

I am sure some of it will go away with practice but additional visual cue would be very welcome, at least my eyes are focused on the center and lining up my target, looking down to right lower corner simply doesn't happen to me. And sound only is bad when your mech is being blown to pieces, you really need to get those shots off then! (Agreed, much of it is L2P, but still)