143 replies to this topic

[Idealsuspect]

DEAD TOPIC plz stop.

[Lightfoot]

This is the DPS per payload ton used chart. Since Mechs carry more than one weapon up to their payload tonnage limit you measure the weapons by DPS per payload ton consumed. The weapons all have range, speed, heat, modifiers that make them unique

machine gun........................1.00= 2.0

ac2.......................................2.78 = 0.46

ULTRA AC/5........................3.01= 0.33 to 0.55?

ac5.......................................3.01= 0.37

lb 10-x..................................4.00= 0.36

ac20.....................................5.00= 0.35

ac10.....................................4.00= 0.33

gauss rifle.............................3.16= 0.21 (current)

if 6 sec recharge....................2.50= 0.17

I bring this up because these are the numbers that actually count for balancing the weapons. MWO has a problem with 2xGauss due to the weakness of the Mechs and the ability of the players to hit accurately and the reduced recycle times of the ballistics. In all the previous MechWarrior games the Gauss recycled in 8 seconds and the AC20 in 6. The shorter recycles in MWO give long range longer to work before challenged of course, but giving the Gauss the same recharge as the AC20 was the problem and increasing the recycle time (to 6 seconds?) was never tried.

The 2xGauss is still a problem, so the de-sync didn't fix that and only works to keep 90-95 percent of mechs in an average drop from using a Gauss Rifle, but in Battle Tech the single Gauss Rifle is a common load-out element of Stock mechs so it should be fairly common to see playermechs with one Gauss Rifle mounted, but that is so rare it is like spotting the last of the Do-Do birds. That supports the Poll result of 80% of players wanting the Gauss Rifle system to change.

So for most MWO players the charge-up de-sync is just not working and something new should be tried, and for the same reason the original Gauss was changed.

[Night Thastus]

The comment by 30ft Smurfy was really harsh.

I've used single and dual-guass 'mechs since before and after the change. I enjoy it the same. The problem is (and everyone else has already said this) if you remove the charging mechanic you'd need to make the cooldown longer. Make the cooldown longer and the weapon becomes impractical as all hell to use, due to how fast matches play out in this game.

The charge mechanic doesn't require MLG pro skills or some ****. Just a little practice. I do great with it in everything from faster mediums to slow ass assaults like the dire. If you think you're about to turn a corner or see an enemy, charge it just in case. If there ends up not being one, just let it discharge without firing. Not some exact science here.

I wouldn't mind trying a longer recharge time w/no charge. It's a consideration. But then again, I'd liket to try a crapton of new mechanics and balancing in this game, but it'll never see the light of day.

Edited by Night Thastus, 03 April 2015 - 09:08 AM.

[Mindwyrm]

Here is an idea.

Have a 2 stage "cooldown" The first stage would be a 2.75 second , and the second stage would be 2 seconds. Between current charge up and cool down we would still be 4.75 seconds. BUT, only one gauss can be charged in stage one at a time. So there would be no penalty for single gauss, but dual gauss would go to 7.5 seconds to double fire. The 3 gauss direwolf still presents a challenge.

[Lightfoot]

6 second recharge is standard variation (well, maybe 5.75) for differentiating the Gauss from the AC20 and the current fastest recharge is 4.75 seconds and likely more like 5.25.

The thing is that the de-sync charge phase is way too much encumbrance for a 15 ton/15 damage weapon that explodes easily. I mean, maybe that's not enough, maybe it needs an always on NARC Beacon too? As a long time MechWarrior player the de-sync is just as absurd as something like an always on NARC Beacon.

[Lightfoot]

And I am seeing alot of vids like this one, of a 2xGauss plus ERPPC or Large Pulse Lasers Mech getting 6-8 kills and 1500 damage and I feel the Gauss charge/de-sync forces this style of play rather than blocking it, which was what it was supposed to do, right? Block 2xGauss+PPC or other I mean. So it has failed.

What it does do is block most players from using a Gauss Rifle. In spite of all the players who say "L2P" and "I picked it up in a few matches", only the highly skilled, highly outfitted, players are using the Gauss Rifle. If this were not the case you would see the Gauss Rifle on many more mechs than 1 in 15 or 20. That's kind of what the Poll reveals as well.

Okay, I am not going to bend your ear, but maybe the solution is to remove the De-sync charge phase when just one Gauss Rifle is mounted. That way the elites would have their sniper-cannon, but would be encouraged to just carry one or fire one at a time or something. Makes a lot of sense.

[Uthael]

Conclusion: big pin-point alpha-strikes are still here and always will be. The way it is now just requires a few games of getting used to. Fix the problem with the delay between not firing and firing again and everyone's happy.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

The Gauss weapon is really perfect now! PGI managed to bring something unique and great in the game.

[ShinVector]

Can't change to perm.. Else the Macro people with abuse it more.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

I would really wish to see all macros banned in the game.

[Lightfoot]

That wouldn't win much praise from the Mouse-makers who sell the macro mice.

The reason you give the Gauss just a longer recharge is because, 1: that's all it really deserves, and 2: That allows it to be challenged by shorter range weapons. This would also discourage the 2xGauss on most mechs because they could no longer rely on it to do the whole battle. I mean Crabs and DWF's might still carry two, but other mechs would likely carry just one and something for short range.

[Serpentbane]

Quaamik, on 19 January 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

A simple way to de-couple the would be to have one f the two (if fired together) misfire. To be nice about t just have one waste a shot and d no damage. Visually the PPC could form plume or the gauss shot could spiral off into nowhere (or just fall out). Wanna be nasty? Have the one that misfires damage the firing mech or even destroy the weapon.

So, fireing Gauss from left arm together with PPC from the right arm somehow causes a missfire? I dont like this kind of dumb unexplained effecs to nerf weapons. Just like ghost heat. The problem is not the weapons, but the way the game is made and played. Where there are little use of roles and classes.

People expect the spider to be the counterpart of the DWF, but this is just plain silly. If you end up in front of an DFW with your spider you should have your mechs armor stripped away in a flash...

Lightfoot, on 16 April 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

I mean Crabs and DWF's might still carry two, but other mechs would likely carry just one and something for short range.

Mine have 3, but who cares

Edited by Serpentbane, 17 April 2015 - 10:28 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Remove Gauss Rifle de-sync/charge-up, change to 1700 meters per second, 5 to 5.5 second recharge. That's more balanced than what is currently in MWO and it conforms to the lore and canon of the weapon. Battle Tech states with no uncertain terms that the Gauss is always in the capacitor-charged state.

If PPCs and Gauss Rifles have different speeds there is no convergence of the projectiles unless the target mech is not moving, but that is true of all weapons in MWO.

If the 2x or 3xGauss is so wonderful that it must be kept use the Railgun for it. It would be much less apocryphal than converting the Gauss Rifle (which is just a mech-sized rifle) into a non-canon mech sniper rifle which the de-sync attempts to do, but fails because the Gauss Rifle is so weak in raw damage unless used as a 2xGauss which is not the standard use of the Gauss in Battle Tech.

80 percent (and holding) of MWO players speaks volumes about how much desire there is to see this charge mechanic changed or removed. Let us have the true Gauss Rifle back please.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Where did you get these statistics? Everyone likes the new Gauss rifle mechanics in my vicinity. There are a few people who want it simple though.

Edited by lunticasylum, 07 May 2015 - 12:53 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

Although the old way screams to me to have it come back, I just know how devastating the weapon can be in the right hands. Put it in the wrong hands, and easier to use, and it will be predominent.

Increase time, heat penalties, all that will do is increase the accuracy and devastation of the weapon on the battlefield.

Keep it like it is, and only those willful enough, patient enough, and determined enough will learn to use it keeping the devastation of the weapon down overall.

Those who want it back to the way it was want to twitch shoot that monster.
Those who do not want it to change want one of two things; maintain some balance on the field or want to keep their niche weapon because they have the skill to use it.

Becareful what you wish for.

Edited by Aphoticus, 07 May 2015 - 08:59 AM.

[Lightfoot]

lunticasylum, on 07 May 2015 - 12:52 AM, said:

Where did you get these statistics? Everyone likes the new Gauss rifle mechanics in my vicinity. There are a few people who want it simple though.

The ongoing Poll plus the rarity of the Gauss Rifle in MWO PUGs. In Battle Tech it's a common weapon, a Mech-sized rifle (not a sniper rifle), in MWO it's on 1 in12 mechs at best and is absent completely in many games. Both support the statement that only 20% of MWO players are using the Gauss in more than an experimental way. Many of those 1 in 12 players with 2xGauss or even rarer, 1xGauss, are only trying it once in awhile and then dumping it.

Anyway, the single Gauss Rifle used to be and should be a common sight especially in MWO where you don't know what Map you will get. All it needs for balance is a longer recharge than the AC20 and probably slower travel time than the 2000 mps it was buffed to to assuage the importation shock of the non-Battle Tech charge-up.

Or MWO can just continue with the DWF and King Crab 2xGuass+2xPPC Club abiding in the middle Lazor-CheezeWarrior. How can any Battle Tech player stand MWO's current vanilla weapon balancing? It's shameful that after all this time MWO is just a bunch of Laser-Boats. We can do better.

[BerserX]

Unless I'm mistaken, the gauss rifle had an enormous power drain on a battlemech, with multiple gauss rifles causing some mechs to slow performance drastically when fired simultaneously. I do not necessarily believe a gauss charge should be held indefinitely, but the current window is definitely way to small.

I would be willing to take a second longer cooldown, or a heat penalty, in exchange for a much larger firing window (timing is borderline ridiculous for some shots - and two or more across an some open spaces is near-impossible unless the target is really slow). IMO, a heat dissipation penalty is more appropriate while the gauss is charged.

[jay35]

Dirus Nigh, on 09 September 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

4) Give the ER PPC a min range of 120m

No thanks. No minimum range on the ER PPC helps offset the absurd heat gen. It's also nice to not completely neuter all PPC-carrying builds and force them all to be defenseless.

You might only be considering Heavy/Assault class mechs, but there are plenty of Light and Medium class mechs for which taking a pair of PPCs is essentially using up their entire armament capacity. Preventing them from being able to engage within 120m is crazy. At least right now, the player can choose to take the ER with its extra heat to offset the PPC's inability to engage within 90m.

[Dirus Nigh]

jay35, on 11 May 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

No thanks. No minimum range on the ER PPC helps offset the absurd heat gen. It's also nice to not completely neuter all PPC-carrying builds and force them all to be defenseless.

You might only be considering Heavy/Assault class mechs, but there are plenty of Light and Medium class mechs for which taking a pair of PPCs is essentially using up their entire armament capacity. Preventing them from being able to engage within 120m is crazy. At least right now, the player can choose to take the ER with its extra heat to offset the PPC's inability to engage within 90m.

They can use large lasers.

[Lord0fHats]

The Gunman, on 19 January 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

Long range, no heat, as exactly as accurate as the person pulling the trigger...

The holding charge penalty is fair.

This. The reason the charge was added was because Gauss was hands down the best ballistic in the game and so good it was pointless using anything else.

15 damage. Insane range. High projectile speed. Ammo that doesn't go boom. Hell. It's still the best ballistic in the game (Clan and IS side), even with the charge mechanic. The only problem with the charge mechanic is people just don't bother learning it.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 23 May 2015 - 06:47 AM.