211 replies to this topic

[Mike Oakenwall - the khadoran]

The heat cost is to high, never put out enough damage for them to be worth it, Large Lasers are pretty much allways better since they allow you to fire more.

Tried them with my highlander and 15 double heatsinks..

[Mycrus]

on the contrary, i love them now... as it takes skill to use them

i haz 4xERPPC on my AWS-8Q - on chain/dual fire of course

[DaZur]

deanon, on 10 September 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

The heat cost is to high, never put out enough damage for them to be worth it, Large Lasers are pretty much allways better since they allow you to fire more.

Tried them with my highlander and 15 double heatsinks..

Depends on your play-style...

PPCs front-load your damage and deliver it to a singular spot upon impact. LLas require one to maintain focus on that same singular spot over a duration to reap full damage potential.

Typically if your more of a ranged fighter you'll benefit from PPCs more... If you like to close and brawl, lasers are the better choice.

A tool for each job an a job for each tool...

[ValdnadHartagga]

I dunno man, honest to Blake I saw a premade AWS last night packing five ERPPCs. It's all about managing the battle, not blasting away at every opportunity.

[Joseph Mallan]

The heat cost for PPCs is right on the money. They are the hottest running weapon as they are supposed to be.

[EGH]

finally there is a reason to use other weapons

[Itsalrightwithme]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 September 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

The heat cost for PPCs is right on the money. They are the hottest running weapon as they are supposed to be.

Yep, the PPC should be a good mid-range weapon, although one can argue that the <90m limit is too severe. The fact that they were a good brawling gun meant that weapon balance was way off.

There are still very good PPC users out there, who are good at managing heat, and economical at lining up their shots effectively.

[Ngamok]

deanon, on 10 September 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

The heat cost is to high, never put out enough damage for them to be worth it, Large Lasers are pretty much allways better since they allow you to fire more.

Tried them with my highlander and 15 double heatsinks..

So worng. My HGN-732 still works just fine. Maybe you just need to stop brawling with it. PPCs are now long range engagement weapon that let's you have room to cool down when you need to.

[Karl Streiger]

Wrong - PPCs are still great - or in other words now they are great again

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Let me refer you to my idea for weapons:

http://mwomercs.com/...ystems-for-mwo/

If this system were in the game there would be no need for ghost heat, and it would create more diversity in weapons and chassis on the field. It's about limiting the exploitation of a particular weapon through limitation. It creates Class or Tier system for weapons that would see things like PPC/LL/Gauss/AC20 in Class 1 and things like Mlas/Mplas/SRM/AC2 in Class2 and could even be used for a Class 3 to better manage it. This would limit weapons used on a chassis by design. You could never have a Stalker with 6 Class 1 weapons on it, a mix of Class 1 and Class 2 yes. You could have 3 ERPPC on that Awesome, but only 3, you could have 3ERLL on that Awesome, but again only 3, then you'd have to add some secondary weapons such as Mlas and SRM's. Class 1 locations could house class 2 weapons, but Class 2 locations could not house class 1 weapons. This would have or could eliminate the exploitation of any weapon in the game and would be far easier to adjust or manage from the point of the Devs.

[Joseph Mallan]

Itsalrightwithme, on 10 September 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Yep, the PPC should be a good mid-range weapon, although one can argue that the <90m limit is too severe. The fact that they were a good brawling gun meant that weapon balance was way off.

There are still very good PPC users out there, who are good at managing heat, and economical at lining up their shots effectively.

Knife range does not mean brawler. 90M has always been the minimum range, I know the 0 damage is a itch, but it does its job as a heavy hitting weapon and can brawl in good hands.

[Lobot]

Yesterday I brawled with my beloved blacjack with 2xPPC and 4xSLas. After three kills within river city streets, someone commented: "He forgot to read about PPC nerf." Still valid weapon and no need to feel bad of using it.

[FactorlanP]

Personally, I think they should have left PPCs doing reduced damage below 90m. But to balance it, they should do the inverse damage to the firing mech.

So, at 89m, they would do (arbitrary number) 90% damage to the target mech and 10% damage to the shooting mech.

At 45m, the damage would be 50/50.

At less than 45m range, the shooting mech would take MORE damage than the target mech.

All caused by the feedback when shooting below minimum range.

[Khobai]

Quote

on the contrary, i love them now... as it takes skill to use them

Except the skillcap on them hasnt changed at all. All that changed was the rate you could fire them.

PPCs are pretty useless now because other energy weapons, specifically large lasers, are outright better.

For the PPC to be a worthwhile weapon it needs to be able to do something that no other weapon can, which it currently doesnt.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Except the skillcap on them hasnt changed at all. All that changed was the rate you could fire them.

PPCs are pretty useless now because other energy weapons, specifically large lasers, are outright better.

For the PPC to be a worthwhile weapon it needs to be able to do something that no other weapon can, which it currently doesnt.

It front loads energy damage. I think that is unique enough for an energy weapon.

[DaZur]

FactorlanP, on 10 September 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Personally, I think they should have left PPCs doing reduced damage below 90m. But to balance it, they should do the inverse damage to the firing mech.

So, at 89m, they would do (arbitrary number) 90% damage to the target mech and 10% damage to the shooting mech.

At 45m, the damage would be 50/50.

At less than 45m range, the shooting mech would take MORE damage than the target mech.

All caused by the feedback when shooting below minimum range.

Brilliant mechanic and suggestion...

In an original post I suggested the if it's not going to do damage below 90m via the field inhibitor it just should not fire (like SSRMs without lock).

But also allow us to override the inhibitor by our own volition and using your inverse damage mechanism, inflicting linear damage from 1 to 9 within that range would be perfectly conical and viable.

Nice +1

[Karl Streiger]

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

For the PPC to be a worthwhile weapon it needs to be able to do something that no other weapon can, which it currently doesnt.

Wait something like - hitting a target with full damage (no DoT) - at long range - without any delay and high damage?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 10 September 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

PPCs are pretty useless now because other energy weapons, specifically large lasers, are outright better. For the PPC to be a worthwhile weapon it needs to be able to do something that no other weapon can, which it currently doesnt.

[Pale Jackal]

PPCs are still amazing.

ERPPCs are now really, really hot, but I'll still have 1 PPC and 1 ERPPC on my Cicada 3M sniper... and I never liked ERPPCs anyways. However, I think I'm in the minority in that regard, as other players seemed to prefer ERPPCs while I preferred normal PPCs.

The 90m hard cutoff for PPCs was required since ERPPCs produce so much heat now.

IMO, I would now use a single ERPPC, in a 'mech that is not energy reliant. Your Spiders, your Cicada 3Cs, or as a one-of in something like an AC20 CTF-1X... though currently I'm using 2 ERLL on that 1X build.

[Khobai]

Quote

It front loads energy damage. I think that is unique enough for an energy weapon.

Yes but frontloading damage is only useful if you can boat a lot of weapons of the same type.

PPCs are now suffering from LRM syndrome... you cant just equip one LRM launcher and be effective. Likewise having only one PPC is ineffective when you could just boat 5 large lasers instead.

Quote

Wait something like - hitting a target with full damage (no DoT) - at long range - without any delay and high damage?

Like I said... its not useful. There is a reason you dont see people running 1 PPC builds and doing well with them. This game is about boating, and none of PGis balance fixes have changed that, everyone who runs energy weapons just runs large lasers now.

Edited by Khobai, 10 September 2013 - 06:34 AM.