77 replies to this topic

[IR_Quinn]

I've got myself a Stalker 5M and I've tried running it with; 2 ERLLs, 2 10LRM and a 5LRM. But I don't seem to do much damage with the LRMs even with Artemis, they just get shot down by the enemies AMS.

As it stand I do more damage in my Jenner with 5 MLs or 4MLs and 6SRM than my Stalker.

Are they actually worth running, or should I just drop them and add more lasers?

[MnDragon]

LRM volleys are counteracted by AMS to the tune of about 5 missiles per volley, per AMS in the area. With this said, you really want to pack LRM15s or LRM20s and group fire them as opposed to chain fireing. Artemis requires line of sight to be effective, so if you aren't looking at your target, Artemis isn't doing anything for you. I myself do lots of damage with LRMs. I run a CPLT-C4 with 2xLRM5s for blinding and 2xLRM15s for damage. I also pack TAG to assist with the grouping as well.

[StalaggtIKE]

For suppression? Yes.

However you have to invest heavily in order to score any impressive damage and/or kills: Artemis, TAG, a lot of ammo, and a lot of tubes (about 30 missiles per salvo). And even then, your success is highly dependent on your intended target (if he leaves cover, neglects to bring ECM and AMS). That being said, LRM are generally not worth their tonnage.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 13 September 2013 - 04:30 AM.

[scJazz]

In the right hands they can be devastating. Having said that... they aren't even remotely easy to use well.

This
CPLT-A1 SmartCat
Did this (PUG only, no TAG)

[Void Angel]

LRM effectiveness also varies by what chassis you're using. You want to be able to throw at least 30 missiles per salvo - and it's much more effective if you can actually throw that salvo all at once. Thus, an Atlas D is totally inferior, as a missile boat, to that Catapult, a Stalker H - or even a flipping Trebuchet.

Edited by Void Angel, 12 September 2013 - 01:15 PM.

[Sadistic Savior]

RyanUNDEAD, on 12 September 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

I've got myself a Stalker 5M and I've tried running it with; 2 ERLLs, 2 10LRM and a 5LRM. But I don't seem to do much damage with the LRMs even with Artemis, they just get shot down by the enemies AMS.

As it stand I do more damage in my Jenner with 5 MLs or 4MLs and 6SRM than my Stalker.

Are they actually worth running, or should I just drop them and add more lasers?

LRMS are not intended to be a staple weapon. They are meant to soften targets up for other weapons.

Also, they do take some skill to use, but they are more strategic than tactical. You need to know when to fire them in such a way that the target can't simply evade by going behind a building or that they do not get pecked to death by multiple AMS passes.

In short, they are effective in the right hands, but they are not for everyone and are more of a team weapon than a solo weapon. In your position I would drop them...mount more heat sinks or armor instead. Maybe upgrade those lasers to pulse or PPCs.

[Taelon Zero]

LRMs are best as part of a team, where you can have a spotter. If you dont have that there is a good chance you wont be able to use them properly.

[SnowdogJJJ]

Just to show off my missile boat, I have bap, tag and 45 LRMs (2x 15 1x20) a volley +2 med las

This is on a Pretty baby, I could not find any other way to make it work for me. I tried many different load outs.
This almost always makes me over 100,000 c-bills.

How do you post screen shots, it keeps telling me my post is to short when I past the screen shot here

[Void Angel]

Er, that's 55 LRMs, and you'd get hit with a heat penalty for firing them all at once.

[MortVent]

it depends, some games/matches lrms are great

Others you want to kill kittens, but I love my catapults (working on elites now)

It comes down to preference and skills sets, LRM in a pug is a coin toss.. most don't hit R so you can maybe rain on someone a ton of pain.

If nothing else, find a balanced mech chassis you like and run with it. What I did for a bit, before focusing on the cats

Edited by MortVent, 12 September 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[GMAK]

I don't do as much as damage compare to my other mech.

But sometimes I get shot by this missile and it really hurt. I get kill sometimes too.

[Kaijin]

Even though you'll find stock mech configurations with a single 5 pack, 10 pack, or 15 pack, MWO's implementation of LRMs makes these useless. To be minimally effective, you've got to be putting at least 20 LRMs downrange per volley, with Artemis and/or TAG. Two LRM 10s need to be fired together instead of chained. And if you watch your outbound missile salvo and just before they drop on the target you see a stream of weapons fire rising to meet your salvo, you might as well switch targets. That's AMS for you.

Some will say that LRMs aren't meant to be an effective primary weapon. Battletech and Mechwarrior canon and lore do not support this, but players who prefer bringing proverbial knives to a proverbial gun-fight are perfectly happy with LRMs being less than effective, and that seems to be who PIG caters to. One can still get some kills with LRMs, but really, only idiots die to them. I've been dropping some lately after a long hiatus, and it seems there are a lot more idiots playing now than there were 8 months ago.

[Unnatural Growth]

To the OP, how about trying 2 ERLL's, 3 ML's, and 3 or 4 SRM 6's? Maybe try just ditching the LRM's all together.

I've run similar setups in my 4N and 5S. They run hot, so watch your weapons groups, but it'll put out a bunch of hurt at mid to close range. I'm running STD 300 engines and 17 DHS's in both.

Experiment around some with different weapon types, you may find you like running SRM's.

Edited by OldOrgandonor, 12 September 2013 - 06:00 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Kaijin, on 12 September 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

A fair amount....

I would not say 'useless' but at my elo level... everything you know how to use is drastically overpowered

I keep the LRM's on my Centurion for those times when Indirect fire would be nice... and I usually drain all the ammo each match.
-one of the first things I do with the mech though is swap the 1 lrm10 with 2 lrm5 (3 for the 9-A) lighter weight, same salvo.

Do I cause a lot of damage?
Depends on the match:
Sometimes I get out-AMSed.
Sometimes I hit walls.
Once I got a teamkill when a friendly ran into a missile salvo.

Frequently I get at least 1 kill that match on account of having them - either from the sheer range over my other weapons or from being able to shoot at someone I cannot see.

Are they the strongest weapon?
En Mass maybe.

Are they useless?
I would say no - unless the entire enemy team has coordinated AMS...

[Sam Slade]

If you're packing LRMs I'd swp those ERLL out for some more short range punch... say stack some MedLas and upgrade your LRM racks?

An often underestimated role for LRMs is close support. At 300 to 400 meters your flight time is very short and you will lose far less to AMS.

My LRM boat is a Founders Cat with 2 x ALRM20, Tag and 3 x MedLas. It's quick for a missile boat has jump jets and packs a 40 missile salvo; when used as a close support mech for skirmising mediums and lights it is very effective... when used with a Victor or other quick heavy/assault it adds significant momentum to an attack, stripping weapons and side torsos at a rate the target does not expect.

The simple reason it is so efficient in this role is the above mentioned flight time; as a Stalker you can perform this role and tank a little bit of damage while the ravening hoarde screams past you to take advantge of the armor-stripping you're doing.

Close support is a good role to play while you get used to the mechanics of LRM boating; until you have a good grasp of it long range(past 600 to 700 meters) LRM fire is wasted ammo.

Edited by Sam Slade, 12 September 2013 - 08:06 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Does a dumb-fired LRM trigger AMS?

Only times I have remembered that I could, I have been firing at those who do not mount it...

I seem to remember being told that SRM do not trigger AMS...
If not, then would the trigger for AMS activation be the activation of the missile lock? (would that even work with friendly AMS cover??)
If that is so, then would dumb-firing get around that or do I yet again not have a clue what I am talking about.

[Kaijin]

Shar Wolf, on 12 September 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

I would not say 'useless' but at my elo level... everything you know how to use is drastically overpowered

I keep the LRM's on my Centurion for those times when Indirect fire would be nice... and I usually drain all the ammo each match.
-one of the first things I do with the mech though is swap the 1 lrm10 with 2 lrm5 (3 for the 9-A) lighter weight, same salvo.

Do I cause a lot of damage?
Depends on the match:
Sometimes I get out-AMSed.
Sometimes I hit walls.
Once I got a teamkill when a friendly ran into a missile salvo.

Frequently I get at least 1 kill that match on account of having them - either from the sheer range over my other weapons or from being able to shoot at someone I cannot see.

This one kill - Were you the only one shooting at the target, or did you just get the lucky finishing shot with your salvo of missiles?

I'm not saying LRMs are useless. I'm saying they're mostly useless unless you're using them against pilots who don't know how to avoid getting pummeled by them. As I said - I've been dropping some lately. All PUG matches, and I'm usually pulling out 1 kill and 5+ assists with my C1(F). But that'a with Artemis, Endosteel, DHS, & swapping out a ML for TAG.

Two LRM5s are certainly better than an LRM10 due to the lower recycle time, but against AMS, anything less than throwing 20 missiles downrange (and preferably 30+) is just a waste of tonnage.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Kaijin, on 12 September 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

This one kill - Were you the only one shooting at the target, or did you just get the lucky finishing shot with your salvo of missiles?

As it is usually someone I literally am physically incapable of targeting myself at the time of firing (hence my emphasis on indirect fire support) I will leave it to your imagination.

What I usually put into posts like that, and if you pay attention is there - the first thing I say in fact, was the note that all of my perspective comes from my elo level - which I can guarantee you is not competitive - and nor do I overly care about making it so.

I have a lot I want to say - but to avoid being inflammatory I will say this:
LRM have the same stats they had in TT (which I personally never had the opportunity to play, but it is not hard to find the old stats.)
AMS do not knock out that many more than they appear to have done in TT.

Thus from what little I know of the differences between TT and MWO: AMS/LRM are as balanced here as they were in TT.

Were they under powered in TT? by what accounts I have found, no.
Were they over powered in TT? see previous answer.

Are they the strongest weapon in the game? See previous post
Are they useless? Depends on how much AMS the other team brought/ other teams skill
The second of those can only be answered by each player for themselves.

I gave my answer
You gave yours

EDIT: Forgot the spread for LRM in comparison to TT... but I shudder at the thought of trying to program that...

Edited by Shar Wolf, 12 September 2013 - 09:17 PM.

[Delas Ting Usee]

LRMs have their place - having said that...I can't stand when someone claims to be an LRM Boat...to be spectated later and learn that he carries 20 or 25 LRM tubes - THAT DOES NOT A BOAT MAKE! 30, 30 is the MINIUMUM number of LRMs you should bring to the table. This has been a public service announcement. Thank you very much.

[MortVent]

I have switched to lrm boats, mainly cause I like them.

I do about as much as the rest usually, some matches not so good. It's up to how well the pug works.

If I got folks that are not targeting then I'm having to scoot and shoot as I can, and likely wind up running into something nasty (I always add close range weapons)

Sure I may not get kills, but I will get assists usually.

The trick is, figuring out how you play a lrm boat in pugs. I can't stand gunnery mechs, but missiles I like. And with more and more matches I'm getting better at dealing with the bad teams and nasty surprises.