254 replies to this topic

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

IT'S A BAD GAME MODE!

Just face it, Assault is a bad game mode. Never should have been a cap point in the mode and should have just been made as a team death match mode. Currently it's the ONLY place you can go respectfully to play something like TDM and it gets invaded by capwarriors who should just stay in Conquest mode. This is the problem, people who wanted a TDM stay in Assault and most of us respectfully stay out of conquest mode so the capwarriors can go play that. Instead we get them in assault to irritate those who want a true TDM and are trying to be respectful of the others by, again, staying out of conquest.

[MortVent]

[redacted]

Tactics to consider :

Defenders at base or within strike distance of base (this is where mediums shine btw with fast speed and firepower)

Scouts to determine where the enemy is headed, so you can move to slam into the main force as well as adjust to the lights.

As for not just playing conquest, sometimes we like to play "Assault the enemy base" It's not our fault most can't wrap their heads around the idea of defending their base and not just playing big slow mechs for slugfests (though I've run back and defended my base in a catapult, jaggermech, and once a trial atlas! And actually burned down the little bitty mech capping in the atlas... while everyone else sat in mid and whined about the capture attempt... much like many in here complaining about it being a valid win option)

Edited by Egomane, 06 November 2013 - 08:03 AM.
quote removed

[Egomane]

Ok... if I have to remove posts from this thread again, because you can't behave and follow the rules, the responsible ones will recieve more then a warning next time.

[-Muta-]

Werewolf486, on 05 November 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

IT'S A BAD GAME MODE!

Just face it, Assault is a bad game mode. Never should have been a cap point in the mode and should have just been made as a team death match mode. Currently it's the ONLY place you can go respectfully to play something like TDM and it gets invaded by capwarriors who should just stay in Conquest mode. This is the problem, people who wanted a TDM stay in Assault and most of us respectfully stay out of conquest mode so the capwarriors can go play that. Instead we get them in assault to irritate those who want a true TDM and are trying to be respectful of the others by, again, staying out of conquest.

Here is the thing...

- People that plays mostly Assault usually complain about people that go for the cap ...

- Peolple that plays conquest the most usually complain about the one that dont cap and just fight...

So I simply try not to take this GAME so seriously at the en of the day like I said; it is a game, just a game.

pixels, entertainment, fantasy, futuristic animations, intended to be for fun, etc...

[Farix]

Werewolf486, on 05 November 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

IT'S A BAD GAME MODE!

Just face it, Assault is a bad game mode. Never should have been a cap point in the mode and should have just been made as a team death match mode. Currently it's the ONLY place you can go respectfully to play something like TDM and it gets invaded by capwarriors who should just stay in Conquest mode. This is the problem, people who wanted a TDM stay in Assault and most of us respectfully stay out of conquest mode so the capwarriors can go play that. Instead we get them in assault to irritate those who want a true TDM and are trying to be respectful of the others by, again, staying out of conquest.

But here is the rub. Assault is not a Team Deathmatch. It is Capture-the-Flag with the capture mechanic used in place of the flag carry because of technical limitations of the game engine. As a Capture-the-Flag mode, teams where players use Capture-the-Flag tactics will have a higher chance of winning via those tactics, especially against unorganized PUGs who forget that they are playing Capture-the-Flag. Players that complain about "capwarriors" are actually complaining that the other players are using Capture-the-Flag tactics in a Capture-the-Flag mode instead of playing it as a Team Deathmatch that the mode is not set up to be.

Edited by Farix, 06 November 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Blue Footed Booby]

Mutaroc, on 06 November 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Here is the thing...

- People that plays mostly Assault usually complain about people that go for the cap ...

- Peolple that plays conquest the most usually complain about the one that dont cap and just fight...

So I simply try not to take this GAME so seriously at the en of the day like I said; it is a game, just a game.

pixels, entertainment, fantasy, futuristic animations, intended to be for fun, etc...

Yeah, the thing to remember is that people play and enjoy games for different reasons.
A guy who thinks it's dishonorable to flee from combat is not going to see eye to an eye with someone whose idea of sportmanship is constrained entirely to matters of civility and staying within the rules. Whether either side is right/wrong or more/less reasonable is really immaterial.

[Wil McCullough]

Farix, on 06 November 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

But here is the rub. Assault is not a Team Deathmatch. It is Capture-the-Flag with the capture mechanic used in place of the flag carry because of technical limitations of the game engine. As a Capture-the-Flag mode, teams where players use Capture-the-Flag tactics will have a higher chance of winning via those tactics, especially against unorganized PUGs who forget that they are playing Capture-the-Flag. Players that complain about "capwarriors" are actually complaining that the other players are using Capture-the-Flag tactics in a Capture-the-Flag mode instead of playing it as a Team Deathmatch that the mode is not set up to be.

it's any thing but capture the flag.

in traditional capture the flag games, the guy has to run back to his base, with players hunting him from the other team. right now, it's just "oh i stood here for 5 minutes. oh i won".

that's nowhere close to capturing the flag.

also, does that mean the PGI made a game mode, assault, to function as a capture the flag mode, then concurrently made another game mode, conquest, to function as another capture the flag mode?

what?

so for game modes, our only choice is what? capture flags or capture more flags?

pardon me, but that's kinda daft.

[redacted]

either that or assault mode wasn't intended to be played this way, and players are simply abusing an unintended mechanic or design oversight to employ a cheesy way to win that requires way more effort to counter than to pull off.

i'll just leave this here:

http://www.thefreedi...ary.com/assault

http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/conquest

as·sault (-sôlt)
n.
1. A violent physical or verbal attack.
2. a. A military attack, such as one launched against a fortified area or place.
b. The concluding stage of an attack in which close combat occurs with the enemy.


con·quest (knkwst, kng-)
n.
1. The act or process of conquering. See Synonyms at victory.
2. Something, such as territory, acquired by conquering.

Edited by miSs, 07 November 2013 - 07:14 AM.
unconstructive/insulting

[Jon Gotham]

Could all anti capping people please have a look at a thread in the suggestions sub forum:
"Concerning capping and Team DM"

I set up this thread in suggestions section which is aiming to try to drum up support for a 4v4,8v8 or 12v12 team DM. So far a player suggested a 24 man free for all:)
PLEASE take note of first responder Russianwolf's polite post and please try to follow accordingly.
Thank you.


Edited because cross linking is not allowed apparently.....even though I'm trying to be constructive:)

Edited by kamiko kross, 07 November 2013 - 05:26 AM.

[-Muta-]

Well, here is the bottom line and general answer to it.

- GET OVER IT

- IT WILL NOT CHANGE AND PEOPLE WILL NOT STOP DOING IT JUST BECAUSE SOME OF YOU DON'T LIKE IT

[Geek Verve]

Mutaroc, on 07 November 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Well, here is the bottom line and general answer to it.

- GET OVER IT

- IT WILL NOT CHANGE AND PEOPLE WILL NOT STOP DOING IT JUST BECAUSE SOME THE VAST MAJORITY OF YOU DON'T LIKE IT

FIFY

[MortVent]

Geek Verve, on 07 November 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

FIFY

You do know, only a small percentage of the playerbase in any game comes to the forums.[
It's usually the more vocal minority, and not the majority who simply play the games.

And for the record. It's not broke so there is nothing to fix. It's a base capture game mode, the entire purpose is to capture the other team's base (destruction of the opposition just means there would be no counter and thus the game ends, same as with conquest)

[Blue Footed Booby]

Geek Verve, on 07 November 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

FIFY

You don't speak for everybody.

[MortVent]

look at the second definition of assault. You are attacking the fortified base, not the fault of the ones capturing it all the guards went off to play elsewhere

[-Muta-]

There are 2 threads for the same exact stupid topic....

Here is the general answer (it is a copy paste in case you havent read the other one)

Dont complain about cap-warriors, complain about the lack of organization and team work on your team for not defending the base.

And by defending I dont mean camping at base. I mean, having a couple of fast enough mechs going back to defend.

Even on a 12 vs 12 match I have lost and won many time by capping.

So get over it, use the brain and not only your mouse and keyboard and save your base.

[Farix]

Wil McCullough, on 07 November 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

it's any thing but capture the flag.

in traditional capture the flag games, the guy has to run back to his base, with players hunting him from the other team. right now, it's just "oh i stood here for 5 minutes. oh i won".

that's nowhere close to capturing the flag.

The object to Capture-the-Flag is to capture something from the opposing team. That something does not need to be an actual flag nor does it always require for that something to be ran back to the other base. It really depends on the variation used.

In fact, I played versions of Capture-the-Flag that involved "blowing up" a point on the other team (usually involving a water balloon or flour bomb). I've also played versions that had "jails" were capture players were kept for the duration of the game or until there was a "jail break". I've also played a version that no only did we have to protect our flag, but also our commander, because if he/she was "killed" or we lost our flag we lost the game. Heck, I even played a variation that involved three teams instead of two.

In Assault, that something to be captured is the other team's base and the winning condition is the approximately 5 minutes it takes to empty the capture bar to capture the base. The irony is that it actually takes longer to capture the base than it does for a light mech ran from the enemy base back to their base. And because they have to say within that square to capture the base, they become a much easier target than one that is running full tilt back to their base. Because there are two teams and the ability to capture something from the opposing team, it falls within the general format of Capture-the-Flag. To say that Capture-the-Flag can only be one set of specific mechanics is extremely closed minded and completely ignores the thousands of varieties of Capture-the-Flag that exists and the new varieties that are created each summer.

Edited by Farix, 07 November 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Geek Verve]

MortVent, on 07 November 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

You do know, only a small percentage of the playerbase in any game comes to the forums.[
It's usually the more vocal minority, and not the majority who simply play the games.

And for the record. It's not broke so there is nothing to fix. It's a base capture game mode, the entire purpose is to capture the other team's base (destruction of the opposition just means there would be no counter and thus the game ends, same as with conquest)

No, it's not broken, as it's working as designed. However, I'm not basing anything on the minority of the player base that visits the forums. I'm basing it solely on the utter contempt shown for it in-game every single time it happens. This comes from individual PUG'ers and premade groups alike. I honestly can't say I have ever heard anyone other than the capper(s) speak out in defense of it at the time. Anecdotal, sure, but when that same scenario plays out every single time...well, you've got to have some serious blinders on or are intent on being deliberately obtuse to ignore it.

You can find all kinds of things in everyday life that, while completely allowable under the law of the land, are met with derision by the general populace. I can park my 20-year-old rust-bucket of an automobile at the curb right in front of your house every day. I can (in many cases) paint my house a painful shade of pink right next door to yours. I can sun bathe in a Speedo (and trust me, no one wants to see that). Just because none of it breaks the rules, doesn't mean everyone else should just deal with it. I honestly don't understand why it's so difficult to accept the fact that the people defending this tactic are the very small minority.

Blue Footed Booby, on 07 November 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

You don't speak for everybody.

Absolutely correct, but irrelevant. Like I said, just the vast majority from my experience. Of course you're going to find people who disagree. You can find people on either side of *any* debate, so what's your point, exactly?

[Egomane]

Geek Verve, on 07 November 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

No, it's not broken, as it's working as designed. However, I'm not basing anything on the minority of the player base that visits the forums. I'm basing it solely on the utter contempt shown for it in-game every single time it happens. This comes from individual PUG'ers and premade groups alike. I honestly can't say I have ever heard anyone other than the capper(s) speak out in defense of it at the time. Anecdotal, sure, but when that same scenario plays out every single time...well, you've got to have some serious blinders on or are intent on being deliberately obtuse to ignore it.

And I have only ever seen those totally against capping, speaking out against it. There is a third group of players though. Those that do not care. I know that that I, and the group of players I drop with, don't have a problem with cappers and do not speak out against them. It's almost always only one or two players speaking up against it. I have never seen "whole teams" do so.

I do observe quite some verbal abuse against the cappers, almost all the time someone speaks up against the capping. In my eyes... if someone needs to use verbal abuse in any form to make a point, he didn't have a point to begin with.

[TheLetterN]

Game mode is perfectly fine as is.
The point where you have a problem is when random people in matches run off in random directions or stick in one giant blob and leave the base unprotected. Everyone wants to pew pew, nobody wants to hang back protect the base or at least be in the general area to stop a cap quickly, they all want those kills and xp.
So as I said, the mode is fine, for clans and organised teams, just not so much for pug's.

On a different note though, the capping mechanic is a necessary evil. What is so stop a almost dead jenner from running off and hiding on top of a mountain where nobody can kill it just to draw the match out? Those caps are there for just this situation, without it the match would drag out and be a draw, no fun there either.

[Wil McCullough]

Farix, on 07 November 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

snip

so you REALLY are saying that the only two modes available so far (to you) are Capture-the-Flag, and Capture-a-few-Flags?

i'll once again ask the same question pro-cap-warriors seem allergic to answering:

can you say with a straight face that cap rushing and winning without firing a single shot is an intended tactic the designers put in for assault mode?

MortVent, on 07 November 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

look at the second definition of assault. You are attacking the fortified base, not the fault of the ones capturing it all the guards went off to play elsewhere

and how is standing in a square for 5 minutes an "attack"? are you "attack"ing the white house if you stand in it for 5 minutes?

something something mental gymnastics something.

[Egomane]

Wil McCullough, on 08 November 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

can you say with a straight face that cap rushing and winning without firing a single shot is an intended tactic the designers put in for assault mode?

Yes!

And that is what the others are trying to explain to you for some time now!

Edited by Egomane, 08 November 2013 - 04:09 AM.