2555 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Xtrekker, on 29 September 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

To clarify, it can be an advantage against those who do not want to play an arcade-style shooter.

Pihoqahiak, on 29 September 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Unfortunately, your decision to not break your immersion will put you (and very importantly, your team) at a disadvantage to those that will use the benefits of 3PV against you. Admittedly, not necessarily a huge issue in casual game play, but much more so in a competitive environment like Community Warfare and tournaments.

Well, I'm not afraid of those big bad 3PV-exploiting monsters. I say: "Bring it on!".

[Xtrekker]

Mystere, on 29 September 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

Well, I'm not afraid of those big bad 3PV-exploiting monsters. I say: "Bring it on!".

Edited for pfft. Why get trolled.

Edited by Xtrekker, 29 September 2013 - 11:33 PM.

[Nekki Basara]

Xtrekker, on 29 September 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Just took this a second ago. Yeah, no advantage whatsoever...

For full effect, http://postimg.org/i...jdf3wxqjl/full/.

At least that's a nice image

[Heffay]

Xtrekker, on 29 September 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

Dunno, could scout their entire team at no risk to myself, and let my team know the position of every mech. I don't use 3PV much at all, and rarely do I decide to actually run 3 displays in MWO, but the combination is pretty powerful (if you don't mind a little motion sickness). Unless I'm misunderstanding you of course.

If you get shot from 2000m "scouting' the enemy in Alpine while a Spider...the problem isn't 3PV.

You'd be better off in 1PV there, since no one will sneak up on you and there is less of a chance that you'll be seen. "Advantage" ...that's funny.

[Kaijin]

Heffay, on 30 September 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

If you get shot from 2000m "scouting' the enemy in Alpine while a Spider...the problem isn't 3PV.

You'd be better off in 1PV there, since no one will sneak up on you and there is less of a chance that you'll be seen. "Advantage" ...that's funny.

It's not a matter of being shot - It's a matter of being seen. The Spider sees all, without being seen, and judging from the opposing team's position, and 1m15s elapsed time, they're pretty slow, or disorganized. Now maybe if they had seen this Spider peering down on them, they'd formulate a different plan. Those two lights out front might try to chase the Spider down, which might mean all of their team's movements might not be being relayed back to the Spider's team, because the Spider is too busy trying to save itself. But the Spider doesn't have to worry about any of that, because the Spider can see them, but they can't see the Spider.

If you're missing the advantage here, I don't know how I could formulate an explanation you'd understand any better.

[Heffay]

Kaijin, on 30 September 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

It's not a matter of being shot - It's a matter of being seen. The Spider sees all, without being seen

But the spider is seen. Everyone can see the drone a lot easier than he can see everyone else.

Also: pugs. What are you going to do with that information?

Edited by Heffay, 30 September 2013 - 04:09 AM.

[Kaijin]

Heffay, on 30 September 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

But the spider is seen. Everyone can see the drone a lot easier than he can see everyone else.

Also: pugs. What are you going to do with that information?

At that distance the drone is a speck. A mech-shaped protrusion jutting up from a hill-top silhouetted against the sky is much more obvious.

Also. PUGs. I see that Spider in my Jenner, I'm going after it. I see that Spider and I'm in my Stalker, I'm telling our lights to go after it.

[Mystere]

Xtrekker, on 29 September 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Edited for pfft. Why get trolled.

I apologize if I gave you the impression that I was trolling you. I can assure you I was not (mostly anyway ).

I was expressing my lack of concern if people think they have a significant advantage over me if they are using 3PV. I say this because the "information" they think they are seeing may in fact be "misinformation" from my end. It's very similar to how I approach the seismic module, another item people have a tendency to rage about.

Now, if only PGI made artillery and air strikes do significantly more than just tickle the enemy ...

Edited by Mystere, 30 September 2013 - 06:43 AM.

[Mystere]

Kaijin, on 30 September 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

At that distance the drone is a speck. A mech-shaped protrusion jutting up from a hill-top silhouetted against the sky is much more obvious.

Also. PUGs. I see that Spider in my Jenner, I'm going after it. I see that Spider and I'm in my Stalker, I'm telling our lights to go after it.

I think you are underestimating how visible those blinking lights really are. Over the weekend, I did a few "experiments" in Alpine where I purposefully used 3PV to do my scouting. In most instances, players on the other side were ineffectively trying to shoot my drone from long distance (newbies?), or more likely were letting me know that they were seeing me.

I don't recall encountering a similar situation when I was just poking my Spider's head to scout on the same map.

Edited by Mystere, 30 September 2013 - 07:02 AM.

[Nekki Basara]

Mystere, on 30 September 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

I apologize if I gave you the impression that I was trolling you. I can assure you I was not (mostly anyway ). I was expressing my lack of concern if people think they have a significant advantage over me if they are using 3PV. I say this because the "information" they think they are seeing may in fact be "misinformation" from my end. It's very similar to how I approach the seismic module, another item people have a tendency to rage about. Now, if only PGI made artillery and air strikes do significantly more than just tickle the enemy ...

How do you misdirect people abou where you ARE?

[Mystere]

Nekki Basara, on 30 September 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

How do you misdirect people abou where you ARE?

I do it by using cover. I make myself be seen going one direction (and usually at way less than max speed). But when I hit cover (or two, or three ), I then swiftly go another way totally unseen. It works great in maps like Tourmaline or Mordor, especially if using ECM (i.e. I switch it off to be seen then switch it back on).

Edited by Mystere, 30 September 2013 - 07:17 AM.

[BigMooingCow]

Nekki Basara, on 30 September 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

How do you misdirect people abou where you ARE?

Alternately:

[Frenchtoastman]

Remember when the ppc heat drop happened, and it became way too good? It wasn't really an advantage because everyone had access to it, BUT that didn't make it any less fun to be pigeonholed into a particular playstyle or loadout for anyone wanting to play strongly. Likewise, if you play locked in 3pv or 1pv, you put yourself at quite a disadvantage against anyone willing to switch back and forth to suit their situation. Both dedicated (1pv and 3pv) crowds lose, currently.

If you were locked 20seconds from the start of the match, this would help.
If 3pv was changed into a large, 3d live model render of you mechs that appeared in your cockpit, this would help newbies see their torso orientation better than currently and let paint ooglers enjoy their work without hurting the game nor splitting the player population.

[Heffay]

Frenchtoastman, on 30 September 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

If you were locked 20seconds from the start of the match, this would help.

Where's the immersion in doing that? At least with a drone you can maintain the sim aspect of the game without breaking immersion.

[Frenchtoastman]

I'll take a more enjoyable mechanic over realism any day.
However, I prefer the last suggestion (in cockpit render) over the viewpoint lock.

Edit: I am very open to suggestions from anyone trying to improve the present circumstance. I also highly encourage anyone with an idea (or anyone who likes my ideas) to be vocal in the suggestion forum AND email support..they've said they listen to suggestions sent in there too.

Edited by Frenchtoastman, 30 September 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 29 September 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

Your definition of "advantage" is very different from mine. Go check the first part of my earlier post if you haven't read it yet. As for the second part, that psychological advantage I mentioned might be a real issue though.

It is not a psychological advantage. Frankly getting spotted happens, so I expect to be found in 1PV or 3PV. The difference is that it can be used to do things that wasn't doable in 3PV. Seeing the screenshot if you had been in 1PV would not be possible. You would be confined into that space and see only as much as that cockpit was expanded, but not to the same degree 3PV would provide.

Using the "psychological advantage" is a fool's excuse for not understanding the implications to those that care about competitive balance. If 3PV had its own queue, 3PV would never need the minimap radar removal.

Frenchtoastman, on 30 September 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Remember when the ppc heat drop happened, and it became way too good? It wasn't really an advantage because everyone had access to it, BUT that didn't make it any less fun to be pigeonholed into a particular playstyle or loadout for anyone wanting to play strongly. Likewise, if you play locked in 3pv or 1pv, you put yourself at quite a disadvantage against anyone willing to switch back and forth to suit their situation. Both dedicated (1pv and 3pv) crowds lose, currently.

If you were locked 20seconds from the start of the match, this would help.
If 3pv was changed into a large, 3d live model render of you mechs that appeared in your cockpit, this would help newbies see their torso orientation better than currently and let paint ooglers enjoy their work without hurting the game nor splitting the player population.

This. The PPC meta fostered by "balance changes for the now" in conjunction with "working HSR" bumped PPC to the top of the food chain. Just because everyone uses it is never the best logical reason to cite for balance. The problem is that it was effective over every other alternative weapon.

3PV is naturally better for scouting over 1PV. The fact that there are no limitations to that benefit especially when you can switch back to 1PV to fight is the problem in of it itself when people have no option to play vs 1PV players only.

This was never an issue in older MW games because 1PV only was a server enforced mode. There is a reason why people wanted to play and/or hated "no heat and unlimited ammo"... people had their own server to do whatever they wished. That option is not even available for 1PV only.. That is the most important distinction that people need to understand.

Edit:
Before someone says "12-mans", let me know when 12-mans are operational 24/7. They are never operational 24/7, so the argument/suggestion is complete bunk.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 September 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[Chronojam]

Deathlike, on 30 September 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

It is not a psychological advantage. Frankly getting spotted happens, so I expect to be found in 1PV or 3PV. The difference is that it can be used to do things that wasn't doable in 3PV. Seeing the screenshot if you had been in 1PV would not be possible. You would be confined into that space and see only as much as that cockpit was expanded, but not to the same degree 3PV would provide.

Using the "psychological advantage" is a fool's excuse for not understanding the implications to those that care about competitive balance. If 3PV had its own queue, 3PV would never need the minimap radar removal.



This. The PPC meta fostered by "balance changes for the now" in conjunction with "working HSR" bumped PPC to the top of the food chain. Just because everyone uses it is never the best logical reason to cite for balance. The problem is that it was effective over every other alternative weapon.

3PV is naturally better for scouting over 1PV. The fact that there are no limitations to that benefit especially when you can switch back to 1PV to fight is the problem in of it itself when people have no option to play vs 1PV players only.

This was never an issue in older MW games because 1PV only was a server enforced mode. There is a reason why people wanted to play and/or hated "no heat and unlimited ammo"... people had their own server to do whatever they wished. That option is not even available for 1PV only.. That is the most important distinction that people need to understand.

Edit:
Before someone says "12-mans", let me know when 12-mans are operational 24/7. They are never operational 24/7, so the argument/suggestion is complete bunk.

This guy gets it.

[Mystere]

Frenchtoastman, on 30 September 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

I'll take a more enjoyable mechanic over realism any day.
However, I prefer the last suggestion (in cockpit render) over the viewpoint lock.

Edit: I am very open to suggestions from anyone trying to improve the present circumstance. I also highly encourage anyone with an idea (or anyone who likes my ideas) to be vocal in the suggestion forum AND email support..they've said they listen to suggestions sent in there too.

You can find my ideas on how to better improve 3PV here.

Deathlike, on 30 September 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

It is not a psychological advantage ...

The "psychological advantage" I spoke of was half a joke and half a dig at all those who act as if having it was the end of the world. The current drone implementation can be vastly improved as detailed in the topic I linked to above. But unfortunately, there are still quite a bit of "all or nothing" types in here that just won't allow for it's existence.

Deathlike, on 30 September 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Using the "psychological advantage" is a fool's excuse for not understanding the implications to those that care about competitive balance. If 3PV had its own queue, 3PV would never need the minimap radar removal.

In this particular context, I define competitive balance as giving both teams the same set of tools to choose from. Which combinations they then use is up to them. As such, I do not see a necessity in requiring a balance between 1PV and 3PV. For myself, I see 3PV (once my suggestions or something like them are adopted) as great for scouting and intelligence gathering, while 1PV is more suitable for actual fighting.

Would you rather have the 3PV drone available to only a certain set of Mechs (e.g. lights/scouts), similar to ECM? I myself don't. But, I wouldn't complain much either if that was done.

Edited by Mystere, 30 September 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[Alois Hammer]

Iron Harlequin, on 20 September 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

88 Pages and still going, I wonder if they give a damn?

I'm going to go with..."no."

Tarzilman, on 28 September 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

There's a reason this knight-word got censored.

Yep: because PGIGP needs all the volunteer white knights it can get to counteract their own actions and the resulting PR from them.

soarra, on 28 September 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

so we have to travel across the country to get an answer from them?

Of course not. The only thing cross-country travel would accomplish is allowing PGIGP to ignore you, and Russ to taunt you, in person rather than via Twitter.

dymlos2003, on 29 September 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

There is no advantage of 3PV so what you said makes little to no sense

Grab dictionary. See "denial."

soarra, on 29 September 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

3pv is fine since everyone can use it.. .wow thats as bad as the "ITS still beta excuse"

Just think of the fashion/style industries and it makes perfect sense:

"No advantage since everyone has equal access" is the new "but it's teh Beta!!!!1!!!"

Edited by Alois Hammer, 30 September 2013 - 11:00 AM.

[BigMooingCow]

This thread is a refugee camp at this point. If we all complain here we won't spread our filth on the rest of the forum. Still, it's only a matter of time before PGI shows up with the bulldozers to clear out the pitiful masses.