345 replies to this topic

[Duncan Aravain]

After over 6100 matches, I can say that the Spider now holds the current record for "what the heck" moments in battle, a title that was once held by the Raven 3L. I'll let the community as a whole debate why this is occurring, but alpha striking a overheated and shutdown Spider in the back numerous times shouldn't be an apparent effort in futility. While I don't fear a Spider, I must admit to a sigh or two as I watch a Spider, lit up like a Christmas tree from apparent enemy hits, dance across a battlefield for minutes at a time.

[Captain Stiffy]

FenixofBria, on 21 September 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Try reading the entire post next time. As for actual evidence, I'm sure others here (should they bother to post) have had similar experiences. I don't record any of my battles. I don't care to. I'm not going to seek out evidence of this and post it. The evidence is there and abundant in the matches played.

I blow spiders to hell all the time. I don't know what you are talking about with them being unkillable. This thread is inexplicable to me - if anything I don't play my spider and I do play my jenner and cicada because the spider quite frankly pretty much stinks.

[Odins Fist]

Odins Fist, on 27 September 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

See, it's real funny that the lead designer already acknowledged a probelm with Hit Detetction, and to be more precise, that the problem was most evident on "small mech chasis"

Tell me again what the smallest mech chasis is..??
.
.
Paul Inouye

Lead Designer


Many of you have cited hit detection errors. We’re seeing this as well. While it happens across almost all Mechs, it’s most noticeable with small Mech chassis. Bumping damage is going to help deal a small amount more damage to small Mechs, but the larger Mechs are going to be destroyed VERY quickly. We are investigating the root cause of these detection errors but it’s a deep problem. We need to find out if it’s in HSR (host state rewind) or is it in the simulation running on the server etc etc. Once found we will be pouring heavy resources on to the problem to fix it ASAP. However, I can tell you this, it’s going to take a while to find due to its complexity.
............................................................................................................................................................................

That should pretty much have silenced anyone that said there isn't "ANY" issue at all..

"it’s most noticeable with small Mech chassis" So what was hard to understand about that..???

[Mehlan]

Whats the surface area of the spider model vs that of the commando Odin? I follow the logic, but think it's better to stick precisely what PGI states at this point.

Edited by Mehlan, 27 September 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[Asakara]

Odins Fist, on 27 September 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

<Quote On Hit Detection Issues>

To be fair that quote seemed to me to be related to SRMs as opposed to all weapons in general:

http://mwomercs.com/...76#entry2546576

Full Context:

Quote

What about SRMs?!?! Buff them to 2.5!!!

Nuh uh. 2.5 SRM damage causes the same effect as the previous LRM-aggedon. While funny to test, the 6-SRM6 Catapult will decimate any Assault class Mech in 3 volleys. The third volley doesn’t even have to be a full volley, 2 volleys following up with a medium laser will probably kill most builds in the game. So what am I going to do about this? Well let me explain an issue…

Many of you have cited hit detection errors. We’re seeing this as well. While it happens across almost all Mechs, it’s most noticeable with small Mech chassis. Bumping damage is going to help deal a small amount more damage to small Mechs, but the larger Mechs are going to be destroyed VERY quickly. We are investigating the root cause of these detection errors but it’s a deep problem. We need to find out if it’s in HSR (host state rewind) or is it in the simulation running on the server etc etc. Once found we will be pouring heavy resources on to the problem to fix it ASAP. However, I can tell you this, it’s going to take a while to find due to its complexity.

That being said, here’s an opportunity for you to decide your fate when dealing with SRMs. In this feedback thread (http://mwomercs.com/...-hit-detection/), there is a poll. You can vote to bump SRM damage up to 2.0, not this patch but next, or leave damage as is until hit detection is fixed. Keep in mind, this bump in damage is going to be a fairly big world of hurt for larger Mechs. NOTE: Cut off for voting will be Sunday 11:59PM PST.

[Odins Fist]

Asakara, on 27 September 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

To be fair that quote seemed to me to be related to SRMs as opposed to all weapons in general:

No it isn't related to JUST SRMs... But I see how you could make that mistake...
.
HSR ... You could try to ask the DEVs for a concrete answer on HIT REG, but it seems it's hard to get detailed information. As HSR is concerned, it affects "ALL" weapons systems, NOT just SRMs.

"We need to find out if it’s in HSR (host state rewind) or is it in the simulation running on the server etc etc"

Edited by Odins Fist, 27 September 2013 - 09:01 AM.

[Asakara]

Odins Fist, on 27 September 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

No it isn't related to JUST SRMs... But I see how you could make that mistake...
.
HSR ... You could try to ask the DEVs for a concrete answer on HIT REG, but it seems it's hard to get detailed information. As HSR is concerned, it affects "ALL" weapons systems, NOT just SRMs.

"We need to find out if it’s in HSR (host state rewind) or is it in the simulation running on the server etc etc"

Do you have another official quote stating that the HSR issues referenced in that quote aren't related to just SRMs?

Or is that just your differing interpretation of that official quote I posted in full context above?

[Odins Fist]

Asakara, on 27 September 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Stuff....

So you're saying HSR does NOT affect HIT REG..??? Ok then....
SRMs are not the only thing affected by HSR, or do you disagree??
Really man, really...???

EDIT: When another official announcement comes out regarding this issue we will see who is right and who is wrong. Remember this exchange here.

Edited by Odins Fist, 27 September 2013 - 10:18 AM.

[Asakara]

Odins Fist, on 27 September 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

So you're saying HSR does NOT affect HIT REG..??? Ok then....
SRMs are not the only thing affected by HSR, or do you disagree??
Really man, really...???

I am not debating any of that.

You presented a quote out of context implying the Dev's stated there is a HSR issue with all weapons.

I presented the full context stating I believe they were referring to SRMs in that quote and not all weapons.

You said I was mistaken and that the quote apples to all weapons..

Therefore I would appreciate if you would show me, with an official quote, how I am mistaken beyond "Cuz I sez so". You either have one your you don't.

[Clit Beastwood]

TB Freelancer, on 25 September 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

I actually love seeing the other side a light heavy, if they make the mistake of getting within 300m, I can usually wipe them out pretty reliably in mechs running AC10, AC20 or Gauss. Also, some of the KTO builds are absolutely devastating to all lights, including spiders.

When I pilot them, people seem to have no issue killing me either most of the time. Sure I get the odd match where I get 5 kills and do 700 damage, but I was playing very well, and against a bunch of pilots that sucked really bad.

You need to play BATTLESHOTS. Take a shot of whatever you want every time you die... you'll gradually get better! Now this might be your ELO dropping like a rock, but I honestly think it makes me more unpredictable and harder to hit

[Odins Fist]

Asakara, on 27 September 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

I am not debating any of that.

You presented a quote out of context implying the Dev's stated there is a HSR issue with all weapons.

I presented the full context stating I believe they were referring to SRMs in that quote and not all weapons.

You said I was mistaken and that the quote apples to all weapons..

Therefore I would appreciate if you would show me, with an official quote, how I am mistaken beyond "Cuz I sez so". You either have one your you don't.

How much info have they given us regarding this issue, how many announcements admitting what is actaully an issue..?? This is the closet thing we have to base any theories on isn't it..??? Context or not, it illustrates a known issue with "small mech chasis" by name...

If you're not debating whether or not HSR is affecting Hit Reg, and the fact that the known issues are affecting small mech chasis the most..
Are you saying "NO" other weapons systems are likely to be affected..??

This doesn't seem right, and I say to you, "Prove Me Wrong" with any quote that says "unequivocally" that NO other weapon system is affected.

Doesn't it seem funny that your assumption is that only (1) weapon system is affected..??

We already know of at least (1) that is, via announcement, and with the state of things wouldn't it be logical to think that other wepons systems are affected as well..?? With all of the people saying that they are not getting Hit Reg with all sorts of weapons, and then the biggest example of this is (1) mech in particular (Spider), then it isn't a stretch to combine the two, with the only admission from the DEVs about the issue.. "Small Mech Chasis"..
Couple that with Hit Box config on certain mechs, etc, etc, etc,... I see the probabilities, and possibilities.
Which one is more likely..??

As I said, prove me wrong, or come up with a better theory...
We'll see, won't we..
If i'm wrong, no biggy, if i'm right, even partially or better, and this was a cause/issue, well....
I hope i'm right, but since we haven't been given any real confirmation on any of it, then all we can do is speculate with the limited amount of info they give us...

We'll see

Edited by Odins Fist, 27 September 2013 - 12:33 PM.

[Asakara]

Odins Fist, on 27 September 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

If you're not debating whether or not HSR is affecting Hit Reg, and the fact that the known issues are affecting small mech chasis the most..
Are you saying "NO" other weapons systems are likely to be affected..??

This doesn't seem right, and I say to you, "Prove Me Wrong" with any quote that says "unequivocally" that NO other weapon system is affected.

Doesn't it seem funny that your assumption is that only (1) weapon system is affected..??

We already know of at least (1) that is, via announcement, and with the state of things, wouldn't it be logical to think that other wepons systems are affected as well..?? With all of the people saying that they are not getting Hit Reg with all sorts of weapons, and then the biggest example of this is (1) mech in particular (Spider), then it isn't a stretch to combine the two, with the only admission from the DEVs about the issue.. "Small Mech Chasis"..
Couple that with Hit Box config on certain mechs, etc, etc, etc,... I see the probabilities, and possibilities.
Which one is more likely..??

As I said, prove me wrong, or come up with a better theory...
We'll see, won't we..
If i'm wrong, no biggy, if i'm right, even partially or better, and this was a cause/issue, well....
I hope i'm right, but since we haven't been given any real confirmation on any of it, then all we can do is speculate with the limited amount of info they give us...

We'll see

It is very simple.

You took a quote out of context.

I stated thought the quote only applied to SRMs and posted the full context and a link as proof.

You said I was mistaken that the quote was about SRMs only.

I said prove it is not just about SRMs with any official quote and not just "Cuz I sez so".

The burden of proof is on you as you state I am "mistaken" about the context of that quote.

So, unless you have some post from the Devs NOW which says that in that specific quote they meant all weapons and not just SRMs, I am not "mistaken" and you just have a different interpretation.

The Devs posting something in the future is irrelevant to your using that specific quote out of context today.

Thus far you have posted a lot of text but nothing proving that I was "mistaken" that that quote was just about SRMs.

Finally, I am not debating anything other than you using that quote out of context so all your text about anything else is moot to me.

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

Spider 5K has been my goto mech for fun and pugging ever since it came out, it works incredibly against people with poor aim and a complete lack of situational awareness, but bringing it to a 12man is suicide unless your team provides you with covering fire and draws the enemy attention, I'd much rather bring any heavy than a spider for playing seriously, because decent pilots WILL beat me in my spider unless they go below 54kph, and if you are going that slow you are begging for death by light mech anyway

On the occasions were i do not succesfully rip apart the cute pugs in my spider it is usually because i park behind an oblivious assault to rear core him while stationary, only to get sneaked up on and 1 shot from behind.
When facing spiders in any other mech than a spider, i usually take them apart before they circle me thrice and if not scare them off eventually, just lead your target, hit it with the projectile or beam, and presto, light mech dies ^^
That being said, I'd rather face a spider of any model than ANY other light mech as they can all carry more firepower than the spiders.
Granted if i recognize an enemy spider pilot as an above veteran level pilot, I'm worried, but same goes for ANY mech, good pilots are dangerous, poor aim even more so...

Untill we get some video proof of these invulnerable stationary rear cored spiders... i call BS on this topic

[Odins Fist]

Asakara, on 27 September 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

It is very simple.

You took a quote out of context.

It's very simple, you might not have a better idea... Splitting hairs is fun huh...
You have to go by what information that is available...

[Ngamok]

Alistair Winter, on 24 September 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Make it happen Maybe when we get private matches started.... next year.

pshawww, you mean 2015.

[Asakara]

Odins Fist, on 27 September 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

It's very simple, you might not have a better idea... Splitting hairs is fun huh...
You have to go by what information that is available...

I am not splitting any hairs. I said I thought the quote applied to SRMs only. You said I was "mistaken" and it applied to all weapons. I said prove it. You tried to deflect a lot into other topics and typed a lot of text but provided zero proof I was mistaken. So it seems clear to me you have no proof I was mistaken or you would have presented it in one of your last 3 posts.

I have no problem having a difference of opinion, but if you are going to say someone is mistaken you should have some shred of proof beyond your imagination to back it up dontcha think?

[Zerberus]

I always find this debate hilarious.

When a spider or commando comes near my Atlas, Misery, or Jäger, the only appropriate word word is "Kersplatter", though "Raven Gulasch" is also a candidate...

But when I drive a commando or spider, I`m almost always the last man standing, and I usually worked my *** off to get to that point. Often to the point of needing to calm down after the round from all the adrenaline....

HSR is still somewhat borked for lights, yes, definitely. But this constant assumption /insinuation that any Tom, D!ck and Harry can just jump in a spider and rule the game is complete and total *********.

Because if it were true, Tom and Harry wouldn`t be stroking their {Richard Cameron} whining on the forums every second day about how OP spiders are, but would find their balls instead and get in one themselves. But as usual, humans are best at judging things they have and want no working concept of.

[Clit Beastwood]

Poptimus Rhyme, on 27 September 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Spider 5K has been my goto mech for fun and pugging ever since it came out, it works incredibly against people with poor aim and a complete lack of situational awareness, but bringing it to a 12man is suicide unless your team provides you with covering fire and draws the enemy attention, I'd much rather bring any heavy than a spider for playing seriously, because decent pilots WILL beat me in my spider unless they go below 54kph, and if you are going that slow you are begging for death by light mech anyway

On the occasions were i do not succesfully rip apart the cute pugs in my spider it is usually because i park behind an oblivious assault to rear core him while stationary, only to get sneaked up on and 1 shot from behind.
When facing spiders in any other mech than a spider, i usually take them apart before they circle me thrice and if not scare them off eventually, just lead your target, hit it with the projectile or beam, and presto, light mech dies ^^
That being said, I'd rather face a spider of any model than ANY other light mech as they can all carry more firepower than the spiders.
Granted if i recognize an enemy spider pilot as an above veteran level pilot, I'm worried, but same goes for ANY mech, good pilots are dangerous, poor aim even more so...

Untill we get some video proof of these invulnerable stationary rear cored spiders... i call BS on this topic

Spider driving rule 1 - don't be stationary.

Zerberus, on 27 September 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

I always find this debate hilarious.

When a spider or commando comes near my Atlas, Misery, or Jäger, the only appropriate word word is "Kersplatter", though "Raven Gulasch" is also a candidate...

But when I drive a commando or spider, I`m almost always the last man standing, and I usually worked my *** off to get to that point. Often to the point of needing to calm down after the round from all the adrenaline....

HSR is still somewhat borked for lights, yes, definitely. But this constant assumption /insinuation that any Tom, D!ck and Harry can just jump in a spider and rule the game is complete and total *********.

Because if it were true, Tom and Harry wouldn`t be stroking their {Richard Cameron} whining on the forums every second day about how OP spiders are, but would find their balls instead and get in one themselves. But as usual, humans are best at judging things they have and want no working concept of.

It would be amazing if we could get, say, 90% of the player base to run spiders

[Odins Fist]

Asakara, on 27 September 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

I am not splitting any hairs. I said I thought the quote applied to SRMs only. You said I was "mistaken" and it applied to all weapons. I said prove it. You tried to deflect a lot into other topics and typed a lot of text but provided zero proof I was mistaken. So it seems clear to me you have no proof I was mistaken or you would have presented it in one of your last 3 posts.

I have no problem having a difference of opinion, but if you are going to say someone is mistaken you should have some shred of proof beyond your imagination to back it up dontcha think?

My imagination..??? Are you serious, you can only go by the info available, and then extract from there...
Go get your shine box...
Prove me wrong.

[Zerberus]

Fierostetz, on 27 September 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

It would be amazing if we could get, say, 90% of the player base to run spiders

Though admittedly if that happens I`ll probably start running 116kph Kintaro or Shadowhawk hunter-builds, I prefer to stay ahead of the curve.