40 replies to this topic

[mikromancer]

I recently came back to MWO after an extended period of not playing.

It seems we've gained a great deal of new players ( Or I've been shunted into Elo hell for some ungodly reason).

In that vein I'd like to outline some of the basic rules and ettiquetes of playing in pugs, as there are many who dont seem to know.

1) NEVER WALK INTO A HARBOUR. ON ANY MAP!

the harbour is usually an extremely open area with no cover and is easily flankable. it makes for bad times and dead mechs. granted I've seen it done well by premades, but pugs wont have the neccessary communication to make it work. harbour will only make to dead!

2) NEVER GO TUNNEL!

for the exact opposite reason of harbour. it's too cramped, and squeezing a whole team in it is just an invitation to be annihilated by the enemy team waiting at the entrance. again, seen it work, but only by fast lances who are communicating via voice coms. tunnel is fine for a single scout looking to ID enemy positions, but that's about it.

3) NEVER USE THE BOTTOM PASS IN ALPINE!

the bottom pass is for ambushing the team that spawn in lower. It always ends in tears. I actually lost count of how many times I warned my team they were walking into an ambush only to be told to "stop being a moron" just before the enemy team proceeded to bring the wrath of god down on us. yes, we all know that alpine is extremely unbalanced. but if you're smart you can draw the enemy team into range by not poking your head out.

4) IF YOU WANT TO CAP, PLAY CONQUEST.
there are exactly two situations in which capping is good manners. the first is an act of desperation. you're a lone mech who is able to outrun the remaining heavy mechs on the enemy team but not kill them, so cap as a LAST RESORT. the second is if you're the several heavies left vs 1 light mech who evades and shuts down so you cannot find him. in this situation everyone just wants the game to end, it has already been won. these two situations mirror each other but can work out perfect for either side depending on who decides what.

capping in any other situation is only polite as a distraction, used to split the enemy team before a push. if you out flank an enemy team DONT CAP. use the flank to kill them, as you'll earn more Cbills. ending the game early with a cap wastes everyone's time and doesnt reward you at all. it's about as dishonourable as you can get before you turn into a teamkiller.

5) LISTEN TO YOUR TEAM MATES/REPORT ENEMY POSITIONS.

if your team is walking out into the harbour on river city lower at the start of the game and the one guy left at base starts screaming bloody murder, turn around and LOOK at the very least. Had a game the other night where the entire enemy team rushed the base in the first 30 seconds from upper, while my team were out dicking around with a jenner in the harbour. I yelled out for help, but no one responded or even looked. we lost to torrents of LRM fire from out of our own base. my atlas was cut down by 4 light mechs. it was a game that could have gone the other way if people had only payed attention.

It is extremely important to listen to tactical information relayed by friendlies. it is even more important to report enemy positions.

this is all I can think of at the moment, and I'd like to apologise to those team I've sworn at and belittled. It's highly frustrating being stuck watching my entire team about to die and not be able to do anything because they wont listen to me.

Please just use some intelligence out there and I promise you that you'll earn a ton more Cbills.

Edited by mikromancer, 23 September 2013 - 08:28 PM.

[Beik Ross Norst]

I disagree with 4 partly, I hate games that become cap races, but hey if someone stayed back, or near base then it wouldn't be a problem. Please don't cap if your team is winning on kills, but pls do cap if you are losing on kills. Like mikromancer said it could split them up and your team can turn it around (then get off cap). Otherwise a cap win is worth more $$$ and XP than a loss...

also, take PUG intel with a grain of salt. I will not follow an order unless I feel it's the right thing to do. Too often Assaults try to use the mediums and heavys as shields and send them into the fire. But if I see a pre-made group working together and they ask for help (flanking or spotting, etc) i'll drive right in.

If you are really tired of stupid PUG tricks though, I recommend looking in the recruitment area of these forums, joining a like minded team is the best way to win!

Edited by Beik Ross Norst, 23 September 2013 - 08:45 PM.

[LeMaudit]

I'll have to disagree with 4. as well, only because there are times when things are clearly going belly-up and a sneaky accelerated cap is the only way to win.

A win is a win.

[Ixion]

I disagree with "never." There's already few enough maps, the last thing we need is to give everyone the idea that there's only 1 right way to play them. I can think of plenty of times I went against 1 through 3 and it was the right choice. On 4, I don't like capping either, and never do it personally, but PGI put it there and telling people they are only slightly better than teamkillers for doing isn't your call to make. 5- what were you doing in an atlas alone? sounds to me like you decided that by loading into a pug in an atlas you were in charge and everyone else was in the wrong place, not you- that's not how it works. You can't force a pug group to play like a premade just because you think they should, then get annoyed when it fails.

[mikromancer]

Ixion - Pugs have a mind of their own, no matter how much planning and communication and teamwork you get going it can still go wrong.

as far as my atlas goes, it's alarming the number of times I'm at the forefront of an assault and my team suddenly dissapears because someone is firing an ac2 or medium laser...

I can see the use in capping, if it's a losing fight and you can actually outpace the enemy to get there, but even then I'd rather go down fighting. mostly cos it gets me more cbills (which is the only way to get anything done for someone as poor as me in this game)

and like I said in #1 and #2 I've seen them done well, but not often enough compared to when it goes wrong, and only when the team is using actual strategy and communications.mostly in pugs it generally just gets everyone killed.

#edited for dyslexcia :/

Edited by mikromancer, 24 September 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[Runenstahl]

Some people REALLY hate cappers. 1-2 weeks ago we were playing on Alpine... we flanked the enemy and had a clear line to their base. Someone said "don't cap". I was playing in my little commando, raced to their cap and started typing "Don't cap completely, just annoy them so they split up". Way before I was finished typing I was destroyed by a well placed salvo from the teammate that had spoken against capping. Had to keep my other teammates from tearing him apart...

Capping IS viable. Yes, if your winning by kills you should not cap COMPLETELY because you make more money and XP by killing then by capping. But theres no reason not to get it going just in case the battle swings around and your team begins to lose... or to split the enemy team apart.

Instead of saying "if you want to play cap, play conquest" I would say "if you would NOT cap, you better play a game between friends and agree on not capping."

[Nick Makiaveli]

Runenstahl, on 25 September 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Some people REALLY hate cappers. 1-2 weeks ago we were playing on Alpine... we flanked the enemy and had a clear line to their base. Someone said "don't cap". I was playing in my little commando, raced to their cap and started typing "Don't cap completely, just annoy them so they split up". Way before I was finished typing I was destroyed by a well placed salvo from the teammate that had spoken against capping. Had to keep my other teammates from tearing him apart...

Capping IS viable. Yes, if your winning by kills you should not cap COMPLETELY because you make more money and XP by killing then by capping. But theres no reason not to get it going just in case the battle swings around and your team begins to lose... or to split the enemy team apart.

Instead of saying "if you want to play cap, play conquest" I would say "if you would NOT cap, you better play a game between friends and agree on not capping."

Pretty much this. Also the OP is incorrect to say there is no bonus or reason to win by capping except in a emergency etc, as there is a XP bonus for winning by capping in BOTH MODES, and even a bonus for assisting in winning that way.

One more tiny detail. I rush the enemy base and get some to come after me then I just helped the team win didn't I? Oh wait, no you guys got ganked? Well then good thing I got a head start capping the base.

[mikromancer]

Nick, I think you've missed a couple of points I made...

capping as a distract to split up the enemy force is acceptable, I stated that in my OP.

and secondly the small bonus you get for being the capper applies only to you, and the end game objective bonus for capping is nowhere near what you can earn by destroying enemy mechs. basically if you look at the salvage bonus vs the objective complete bonus there's no competition. salvage bonus is usually at least double.

[Nick Makiaveli]

mikromancer, on 26 September 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Nick, I think you've missed a couple of points I made...

capping as a distract to split up the enemy force is acceptable, I stated that in my OP.

To be fair, you didn't treat it as a viable tactic, ie it's only "polite" as part of an organized push, which unless you have a synchronized 2 team drop is rare.

Also, if the flanking maneuver goes to pot, it's too late to cap. I flank as a scout, and if I went the "wrong way" then I head straight to base. That way I can start prepping it for a cap win, hopefully pull some mechs off the firing line, and possibly gank some afk'ers before they wake up.

mikromancer, on 26 September 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

and secondly the small bonus you get for being the capper applies only to you, and the end game objective bonus for capping is nowhere near what you can earn by destroying enemy mechs. basically if you look at the salvage bonus vs the objective complete bonus there's no competition. salvage bonus is usually at least double.

Yep, but divide that bonus by 12 and what do you have? So if there's just one mech left, better for the team, as a whole, to go ahead and cap win.

[Gildamere]

mikromancer, on 26 September 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

capping as a distract to split up the enemy force is acceptable, I stated that in my OP.

Capping is OK, because it's in the game. You can't judge people by adopting a way of winning that was meant as such by the game.
If people are just playing for maximum XP or C-bills then something's wrong here...

[The Unknown Pilot]

I adore cat herders, I truly do!

[Nick Makiaveli]

Gildamere, on 29 September 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Capping is OK, because it's in the game. You can't judge people by adopting a way of winning that was meant as such by the game.
If people are just playing for maximum XP or C-bills then something's wrong here...

Valid point. If you drop in a PUG, which granted we have to do or find a 12 man, then you have to accept that you are playing with other people.

Given that not only are the objectives in the game, they reward the capper with both a bonus for winning that way and a bonus for being involved in the cap, it's clearly something they intended.

Perhaps it's meant to play a larger role when CW rolls out, perhaps it's a vestigial item left over from a earlier concept. But it exists, it's a viable tactic, so it will be used.

Adapt and overcome. Or just kill the other team faster!!

[Kjudoon]

Some very interesting points from the OP. I'm new here but it's not taken me too long to also realize there are certain maps and certain start points that lose most of the time beause of tactical disadvantage. Frozen City, River City and Forest Colony are notorious to me already, to the point where I am starting to consider disconnecting the instant I'm dropped at that point. With heavy and Light mechs that I run, I've yet to find any strategy that had even a modicum of success when you start at these disadvantaged points. (This kind of goes along with the "Harbor = dead" view)

Another thing I always seem to notice with PuGs is what I'm calling the "Theta Death March". This is so common on Terra Therma and River city, it's almost a joke if it wasn't so sad. I don't know how many times that the team that gets to the Theta check point on River City gets chewed to ribbons. Same goes for Terra Therma with being second to the volcano, which is almost always the group in the lower left leaving 2-4 light mechs having to cap to win if they can... and usually they can't.

As for capping itself, I'm a fan, but it's too quick. I think the total needs to be upped to 1000 or 1250 if we're going to have cap buffs. Also, the CBill reward should be changed to be higher for those who do go around capping with light mechs. I've had too many games already where I got zero bonus because I wasn't the first person to a cap and stay till full, so no assist bonus. Maybe the bonus could be on points you helped get directly, not just a general group bonus. Otherwise it's just more "Mech Smash!!!" and no payoff benefit for doing something that very well could have won the game.

Well that's my newbie POV. I really hope they get the CW running fast, because this random 12v12 will get boring really quick if it doesnt show up soon. Battles without game consequence have no meaning.

Edited by Kjudoon, 29 September 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[Macbrea]

I will tell you, when community warfare comes up I will be playing the mission. So, if the mission includes cap to win, I will be capping to win. If you don't like that then put me on ignore and hopefully the match making system will not pair me with you. Mechwarrior doesn't have a Deathmatch Mode yet. When it does then that is the mission. Until that time, it is either Conquest or Assault.

[100mile]

I only have one thing to say.....This thread was started by someone that wants to enforce what they think the game should be (as so many of them are) and how it should be played....What makes these people think they should be allowed to try and direct the way everyone else thinks? If you are going to make a post like this you could at least present it as an opinion instead of presenting it as"Fact". Yes I know I will be in the minority on this one...but let people learn just like we did...offer advice not speculation on their parentage...(or lack there of)

Signed: just tired of the freakin lousy attitude towards new people by the "old timers"...and the "only one way to think players"

[Zeee]

mikromancer, on 24 September 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Ixion - Pugs have a mind of their own, no matter how much planning and communication and teamwork you get going it can still go wrong.

as far as my atlas goes, it's alarming the number of times I'm at the forefront of an assault and my team suddenly dissapears because someone is firing an ac2 or medium laser...

Exactly the reason why i stopped playing my Atlas's in PUGs. Only bring em out when the rest of the guys want to go all STEINER SCOUT LANCE!!

[Wagamama]

Quote

Another thing I always seem to notice with PuGs is what I'm calling the "Theta Death March". This is so common on Terra Therma and River city, it's almost a joke if it wasn't so sad. I don't know how many times that the team that gets to the Theta check point on River City gets chewed to ribbons. Same goes for Terra Therma with being second to the volcano, which is almost always the group in the lower left leaving 2-4 light mechs having to cap to win if they can... and usually they can't.

I disagree. I few lights with ECM coverage can take theta and get out, all the while racking up cap points and turn the tide of a battle


[Hairy Passion]

Capping in my view is the same as my two medium lasers on my DDC-not really useful unless used in tandem with other weapons. For example, this morning we played a match in Caustic Valley. We all went right of the caldera and the opposition went left and locked us in a long range peek and shoot. I sent two lights to their base with instrustions to draw them out into the water. When the enemy started back to base, we pushed and picked off the straggling atlases and moved in to finish the crew off. It worked great, ended up with 4 kills and around 85 match points. Capping is a tool IMHO..

[Kjudoon]

Wagamama, on 01 October 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

I disagree. I few lights with ECM coverage can take theta and get out, all the while racking up cap points and turn the tide of a battle


Yet to see it work, but I'm new here.

[C E Dwyer]

I disagree with 3 lower pass it depends which side you start, if you start at the base that is closest to theta its a big disadvantage going up the hill as most mech that are asymeterical have the big weapons on right hand side which means you have to expose your full torso to use, and your fighting uphill, the other team has to be totally inept to lose from this position.

likewise tunnel have to disagree there as well, if your entire team goes there then yes your cramped, to ignore it and not use it though means your basically leaving part the map the other team don't have to guard against, its also a good route for brawlers to take and not have to endure lrm bombs, it will of course fail if the rest of your team don't push to support.


also pushing the cap will spilt teams some going back some staying put so ignoring the cap means people don't have to think about it.



the theta cap in river city is usually a death trap, but thats because the map is so small...

infomation is allways good however if the team stop 'dicking' around with the jenner, its going to strip rear armour and light up for lrm bombs. so removing it was valid and in a pug very few people are going to get armour stripped until the bug is gone..


maps are kind of small for a strategy, and while some of your thoughts are very valid more than half seem to be based around your personal dislikes and frustrations, which leads to limiting tactical options