210 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

After watching the original video, I remember when I had this happen.

Obvious sign, your whole team goes to one side of the map and encounters no one by the mid point between bases.

At that point, you know they are on the other side and possibly base rushing so should choose between rushing their base or heading back to your base.

[New Day]

Wolf87535, on 18 November 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Many matches I have been in, we do exactly what Fut suggested. Of course once the shooting starts, no one remembers those conversations anyway. I believe that some players get "Kill Fever" just like some hunters get "Buck Fever", and completely forget what they are supposed to be doing.

My point.
Maybe it's tunnel vision?

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 19 November 2013 - 04:27 AM.

[Gladewolf]

XPH Aku, on 18 November 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Again, you apparently have never been cap rushed by board heads and lost in under 3 min to cap accelerator and the in ability to kill them fast enough to win. Capping to troll is a {Richard Cameron} move, it trolls everyone including your own team. The difference between making 150,000 c-bills for a loss and 50,000 c-bills and winning makes capping in the first 5 minutes trolling no matter how you look at it.

LOL, did the 100 ton mechs surprise you with their speed and agility?! Did they TELEPORT to your base(that would be cheating)?! It might surprise you, but I HAVE faced this, sometimes, like everyone else I just don't feel like being the scout, I screw up and a 100ton battle mech(or group of them) strolling along at LESS THAN 70KPH finds their way to my base....but here is where my opinion differs from yours......see THAT'S ME trolling, THAT'S MY fault!! I'm the one that let a column of ASSAULT MECHS past, it's not as if they got airdropped on to my base, heck, on Alpine it might actually take that assault mech more than 3 minutes to GET to the enemy cap even with no resistance whatsoever.......AND THAT'S BECAUSE I NEVER LOOKED FOR IT. As far as the rewards go, PGI hasn't settled on those and I agree that it's broken currently, but they tweak it here and there and hopefully they'll manage to make the rewards system more viable for all styles of combat that result in match victory.

[Gladewolf]

Wolf87535, on 18 November 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

I guess this is the point where we are diverging, (and thanks for the expansion of your opinion on this, I think I understand where you are coming from now) is simple truly.
It appears that for you, you see a match as a win or lose prospective. I do not.

The only thing that matters for me in the match is: cbills and XP. Win/loss literally means nothing. Why? Because they have no in game effect. The XP and cbill bonus for a kill assist outweighs anything you get if your team wins by cap. Yeah, I like winning, who doesn't? But in the end, for me, it is secondary to XP on my mech and cbills to play with them. Therefore in my perspective, cap rushing is grieving, and nothing less. It is a deliberate attempt to cheat 23 other people of the enjoyment and rewards of the match. I don't think cappers are evil, I don't believe that capping has no place in assault. I do think running straight for the cap to deliberately end the match as soon as possible is grieving . Hope that makes my point clear. I do actually agree with you that in no circumstance should a capper be allowed to cap your base, but if you can't break free of the battle to return (which sometimes happens)....so what? The match is lost, which in the end has no real in game meaning. Now when CW is implemented and win/loss can have an effect on the game, that will change everything.

edit: spelling

Match rewards being crappy is a fair point, I believe PGI needs to make winning worth it all the time. After all, who would be happy if they changed football league scoring to award points for cheering fans instead of scoring touchdowns? Let's face it, the fans pay the bills......but that isn't really the point of the match being played. You also point out that the xp and c-bills matter most to you and I can understand as well how that changes for players as well...I personally have more than 30 mill and something like 25 mastered chassis, not trying to brag(I probably just play more), just making it clear why I don't so much care about the paycheck, but at the same time I DO remember trying to get mechs that I couldn't really stand to elite so I could drop them like a bad habit....but that to me, is also a separate issue that should be addressed. But let's be perfectly honest about capping, people start throwing insults as soon as you touch it......no matter what your intentions are. Actual scouting (which doesn't have to be done by lights btw) is rare. and response rates to caps even though PGI made the great choice of slowing it down to a crawl for solo cappers....are generally slow and half-hearted. These are the sort of things WE can affect directly.....by not accepting the half-hearted drone tactics of others....or their complaints when wins, c-bills and experience aren't just handed to them on a silver platter for failure to make any real effort toward achieving the thing they claim to want. A fight.

[Helsbane]

NamesAreStupid, on 19 November 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

My point.
Maybe it's tunnel vision?

It's technically called "target fixation". It becomes so hard to shake that fighter pilots have actually flown into the ground trying to line up a shot.

[New Day]

Helsbane, on 19 November 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

It's technically called "target fixation". It becomes so hard to shake that fighter pilots have actually flown into the ground trying to line up a shot.

Huh, didn't know that is a real thing.

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 19 November 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[Gallowglas]

WarHippy, on 12 November 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Capping only happens 15% of the time what more do you want?

Perhaps you mean that a cap rush only happens 15% of the time? Because cap mechanics and people having to react to a cap happens in most matches. And saying that a broken or non-fun mechanic only happens 15% of the time isn't a strong argument it should remain in the game. If you got a HUD bug or a CTD 15% of all matches, would that be acceptable?

WarHippy, on 12 November 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

What is so hard about learning better tactics to deal with caps instead of running full speed into the center of the map for a random slugfest?

So what tactic prevents 4 lights with cap accelerator from taking your base on a big map before you can mount a defense? Base camping? Is it compelling gameplay to have both groups sitting on their base on big maps for fear of a cap race happening? Is it good tactics when you leave mechs off the front line so that your main force gets steamrolled because a cap didn't happen? What happens when the matchmaker doesn't give you a good mix of fast mechs? Yes, that latter point is out of your control, but guess what: you still have to contend with it. Additionally, until something like CW hits, you're dreaming if you think that this or any other community is going to miraculously start acting as a coherent unit. Let's face it: most people's scoresheet is their personal K/D ratio, like it or not.

Again, I'm not arguing that it's something you shouldn't find a way to deal with. You quite obviously should. I'm arguing that it's not compelling gameplay for a large number of players in its current implementation. Is a base defense mechanic in some game modes needed? Sure. I'd be fine with it with tweaks, such as base turrets or a lockout time. However, some of you don't seem to grasp why people might complain that there is no game mode where you don't have to worry about the possibility of having a horde of ECM Spiders with cap accelerator race to your base the moment your assaults get a reasonable distance away. Your only response to the frustration of not having any other option is "L2DefendN00b". That baffles me.

Edited by Gallowglas, 19 November 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[Gladewolf]

Ohh...we might see some base defenses in the near future...have a look at the command chair, that'll be interesting. Gallowglas, it's pretty clear you just don't like the mechanic....their is nothing I or anyone else can do for that, but wait for the next game mode, which will hopefully be out soon. Attack and Defend looks like a nice concept. TDM however....much in they way you want to see more added to make Assault viable for you...I believe a lot of work needs to be done to make TDM worth my time.

[Gallowglas]

Gladewolf, on 19 November 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Ohh...we might see some base defenses in the near future...have a look at the command chair, that'll be interesting.

Yeah, I saw that. If implemented correctly, I think it would go a long way toward resolving most of my issues with the assault game mode.

Gladewolf, on 19 November 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Gallowglas, it's pretty clear you just don't like the mechanic....their is nothing I or anyone else can do for that, but wait for the next game mode, which will hopefully be out soon. Attack and Defend looks like a nice concept. TDM however....much in they way you want to see more added to make Assault viable for you...I believe a lot of work needs to be done to make TDM worth my time.

/nod. I understand that there will probably eventually be a solution. I don't think a pure TDM will necessarily work either given that light mechs will go power down in a corner of the map to delay a win. I just want a mode that encourages combat rather than base camping or cap racing. Right now base capping is, technically speaking, usually the easiest way to win. Variety is good. We just don't have much right now, which is what leads to all the frustration.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Gladewolf, on 19 November 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

But let's be perfectly honest about capping, people start throwing insults as soon as you touch it......no matter what your intentions are. Actual scouting (which doesn't have to be done by lights btw) is rare. and response rates to caps even though PGI made the great choice of slowing it down to a crawl for solo cappers....are generally slow and half-hearted. These are the sort of things WE can affect directly.....by not accepting the half-hearted drone tactics of others....or their complaints when wins, c-bills and experience aren't just handed to them on a silver platter for failure to make any real effort toward achieving the thing they claim to want. A fight.

Perfectly put. I just think the whole issue could be resolved with a two or three minute delay before cap is allowed. IMHO, this would pretty much eliminate the bad behavior on both parts. And yeah, some people insta-troll as soon as the cap is touched, and that behavior should stop too. I usually try to add a little shame if someone from either team caps in the first 2-3 minutes. Hopefully when we get CW, this does not lead to round after round of base charging.....who knows, we will see when it gets here.

[Commissar Aku]

You know what would most likely fix all of this? Fixing the ELO, teams don't out ton you by 1000 tons or fixing it so that noobs don't have to deal with veterans.

[R Razor]

Ehhh, I've decided that if you can't beat'em you should join'em............I'm grinding Spiders and Jenners and will cap rush every chance I get until either PGI does something to make the game better or all of the "defend your base n00b" jerkoffs rage quit because it's happening to them too.

[-Muta-]

UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT SO...

[Caswallon]

Good ol Muta says it like it is

Seriously folks this is old, how 'bout you give the Light pilots on your own team more respect and we'll go back and hold off the base cap while you heavy boiyz* trundle back and finish the job eh?

Seriously consider it. I have a friend list full of folks that Don't play lights but appreciate me when I do and well we have a lot of fun using that rare lostech science

Teamwork!

*(Yes I fully realise that many of you reading this already do play well with others. My remarks are NOT directed to you please no genuine offence is meant)

[xMintaka]

Caswallon nailed it.

I pilot lights. As soon as a base cap starts, I'll disengage (if possible) and head back to stall/deal with it.

What irks me is when it's mediums/heavies/assaults on base and I type in chat something along the lines of "Heavies at base, help", no one comes back. Leaving a Jenner or Spider to run in circles, desperately trying to stay in the cap box, while under heavy fire against opponents that have a severe advantage when I cannot use my speed to dart between cover. There is no cover in the cap box.

These same people who were too busy either trying to get to the enemy base (even if they were closer to ours) or simply killing that Spider, will then complain about "Capn00bs" when they inevitably lose once the light(s) that went back to defend are taken out.

Erm, excuse me? A member of your team specifically said he could not handle the base cap and needs fire support. What were you doing? Oh right, chasing a 150kph Spider in your 60kph Atlas.

Who's the "n00b"?


Also, what I always say when people start complaining about capping.

It's not deathmatch.

Yes, it's boring when it's a straight up cap rush. But it happens. Maybe the lights missed the enemy team (I'll own up if it was me), but as stated above, if you haven't encountered them by the halfway point, you might want to either make a mad dash for their base, or turn around and catch the opposing team as they're waddling single file into the base.

Edited by Lunatech, 20 November 2013 - 07:32 AM.

[Vanguard319]

XPH Aku, on 18 November 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Again, you apparently have never been cap rushed by board heads and lost in under 3 min to cap accelerator and the in ability to kill them fast enough to win. Capping to troll is a {Richard Cameron} move, it trolls everyone including your own team. The difference between making 150,000 c-bills for a loss and 50,000 c-bills and winning makes capping in the first 5 minutes trolling no matter how you look at it.

My god, Boar's Heads? Really? I've seen these kind of cap rushes before, and I've seen them fail. If they are fast moving Atlai, then you shoot out the side torsos. XL engine goes boom, mech falls down, problem solved. A lance of assaults is not a problem if your team is competent enough to coordinate fire. Numbers beat tonnage all the time. If you're pugging in a group of ppl who can't function as a team, and put their own KDR/ego/e-peen before their team's success as a whole, then you will fail regardless of what your opponent throws at you.

[WarHippy]

Gallowglas, on 19 November 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Perhaps you mean that a cap rush only happens 15% of the time? Because cap mechanics and people having to react to a cap happens in most matches. And saying that a broken or non-fun mechanic only happens 15% of the time isn't a strong argument it should remain in the game. If you got a HUD bug or a CTD 15% of all matches, would that be acceptable?

No, it means that out of all games played only about 15% finish as the result of capping according to the devs. The mechanic of capping is not broken, nor is it a non-fun mechanic for many people. Fun is subjective and you are trying to take it from many others because you can't be bothered to defend the main objective of the map. Comparing capping to a HUD bug is quite possibly the most idiotic statement I have ever seen on these forums, and that is no small feat.

Gallowglas, on 19 November 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

So what tactic prevents 4 lights with cap accelerator from taking your base on a big map before you can mount a defense? Base camping? Is it compelling gameplay to have both groups sitting on their base on big maps for fear of a cap race happening? Is it good tactics when you leave mechs off the front line so that your main force gets steamrolled because a cap didn't happen? What happens when the matchmaker doesn't give you a good mix of fast mechs? Yes, that latter point is out of your control, but guess what: you still have to contend with it. Additionally, until something like CW hits, you're dreaming if you think that this or any other community is going to miraculously start acting as a coherent unit. Let's face it: most people's scoresheet is their personal K/D ratio, like it or not.

The tactics for stopping it are to scout and not over extend until you know where the enemy is. It is pretty effing simple, and if you don't have a lot of fast mechs on your side then you team needs to stay near base instead of blindly charging across the map. People will adapt to new strategies if they start losing repeatedly trying to do the same thing again and again with it not working.

Gallowglas, on 19 November 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Again, I'm not arguing that it's something you shouldn't find a way to deal with. You quite obviously should. I'm arguing that it's not compelling gameplay for a large number of players in its current implementation. Is a base defense mechanic in some game modes needed? Sure. I'd be fine with it with tweaks, such as base turrets or a lockout time. However, some of you don't seem to grasp why people might complain that there is no game mode where you don't have to worry about the possibility of having a horde of ECM Spiders with cap accelerator race to your base the moment your assaults get a reasonable distance away. Your only response to the frustration of not having any other option is "L2DefendN00b". That baffles me.

What is compelling play for people is also subjective. Personally I find mindless death match to be one of the least compelling game modes anyone ever came up with because there is no substance to it. What baffles me is that the devs have said they are making a new game mode for deathmatch yet all of you anti cap people are still insisting on changes to assault.

[WarHippy]

Wolf87535, on 19 November 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Perfectly put. I just think the whole issue could be resolved with a two or three minute delay before cap is allowed. IMHO, this would pretty much eliminate the bad behavior on both parts. And yeah, some people insta-troll as soon as the cap is touched, and that behavior should stop too. I usually try to add a little shame if someone from either team caps in the first 2-3 minutes. Hopefully when we get CW, this does not lead to round after round of base charging.....who knows, we will see when it gets here.

Statements like these are why your side can't be taken seriously in any of this. Capping is not bad behavior, it is not a bug, it is not a bad mechanic that everyone hates, and it is not something you should be shaming or attacking other people over.

[Joseph Mallan]

WarHippy, on 20 November 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

Statements like these are why your side can't be taken seriously in any of this. Capping is not bad behavior, it is not a bug, it is not a bad mechanic that everyone hates, and it is not something you should be shaming or attacking other people over.

I got to cap win for the first time in months last week. I apologized to my friends on Comms, the rest of the team had died in a pretty good brawl. I just don't get to cap in an Atlas that often, and I go all giddy. A Couple matches later I was the only Mech to go back and defend a cap attempt v an enemy Atlas! We won that match as well. I don't usually have the luxury of doing these acts as I am in battle most times.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Fun thought: only times I have seen the new artillery/air strikes used lately....

People have dropped them on a base being capped - and the cappers have scattered.

I am told (don't use them - no real appeal for me strong or weak) that you can drop them anywhere you can see - no minimum/maximum range.