90 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Curccu, on 22 October 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

Ok This actually comes out to being equal to having 12 extra Commandos on the field. But I still say if you are dropping in a "random" system you should not complain about how you get matched up. It is Random after all.

[Curccu]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 October 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

Ok This actually comes out to being equal to having 12 extra Commandos on the field. But I still say if you are dropping in a "random" system you should not complain about how you get matched up. It is Random after all.

I think point is it shouldn't be random. it's just stupid.

[Joseph Mallan]

Curccu, on 23 October 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

I think point is it shouldn't be random. it's just stupid.

Heck yes it should be random! Intelligence in the Military is known for having a lack of up to date info. You are traveling between 1-6 months to your intended target. and a lot can change in that much time. It is fine.

[Curccu]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 October 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

Heck yes it should be random! Intelligence in the Military is known for having a lack of up to date info. You are traveling between 1-6 months to your intended target. and a lot can change in that much time. It is fine.

It's a game.

And if we want to got there why is it even 12 vs 12 (most of the times), frak it just make it 5 vs 30.

Edited by Curccu, 23 October 2013 - 04:06 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Curccu, on 23 October 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

It's a game.

And if we want to got there why is it even 12 vs 12 (most of the times), frak it just make it 5 vs 30.

It happens. Because most cannot face losing v a superior enemy does not mean everyone does. As a Grunt, my Fireteam (4man), killed our 1st Plattoon(28 Men). Just because you haven't found the right scenario does not mean David cannot beat Goliath.

[Schrottfrosch]

"Random" means, you drop with random people and form a team with them - the pieces you play with (mechs in this case) should be ballanced, just as in any other game you play...

[Joseph Mallan]

Schrottfrosch, on 23 October 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

"Random" means, you drop with random people and form a team with them - the pieces you play with (mechs in this case) should be ballanced, just as in any other game you play...

Well that's no fun! What if my team is trying to be the Wilson Hussars of old?

[Curccu]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 October 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

Well that's no fun! What if my team is trying to be the Wilson Hussars of old?

Ask PGI to make game mode for that...

[Khobai]

We do not need tonnage balancing. We need role warfare balancing. The whole point of role warfare is that a medium mech and assault mech can contribute equally to their team winning. Medium mechs simply need to be able to do something vital that Heavies and Assaults cant do, and people will play them without being forced to.

[Joseph Mallan]

Curccu, on 23 October 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

Ask PGI to make game mode for that...

They already have it!

Khobai, on 23 October 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

We do not need tonnage balancing. We need role warfare balancing. The whole point of role warfare is that a medium mech and assault mech can contribute equally to their team winning. Medium mechs simply need to be able to do something vital that Heavies and Assaults cant do, and people will play them without being forced to.

They already do. They move faster. Sorry but that is all a Medium would be able to do better than a Heavy or Assault. The other two can carry more weapons and more armor so a Medium will never compete on those fronts. So maneuverability is their only advantage... And Lights are better at that than a medium!

[Curccu]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 October 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

They already have it!

Well only because it's not working as intended :/

Khobai, on 23 October 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

We do not need tonnage balancing. We need role warfare balancing. The whole point of role warfare is that a medium mech and assault mech can contribute equally to their team winning. Medium mechs simply need to be able to do something vital that Heavies and Assaults cant do, and people will play them without being forced to.

What if there is no win because there is so many assaults/heavies? Then there is on contribution?

[Joseph Mallan]

Or is it?

Seriously, A fight should be a krap shoot! We should not be sure every drop will be a Battle of Legend ™. The Dragoons drop on a Planet in one novel expecting Militia as resistance, Only to find out the Governor hired the ELH to train his forces. Opps!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 23 October 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

They already do. They move faster. Sorry but that is all a Medium would be able to do better than a Heavy or Assault. The other two can carry more weapons and more armor so a Medium will never compete on those fronts. So maneuverability is their only advantage... And Lights are better at that than a medium!

Yes they move faster but lights move even faster yet. Mediums literally do nothing that other weight classes cant do better.

The problem is the lack of role warfare. Mediums are supposed to be the most versatile weight class yet MWO punishes them for not being able to specialize in one area. IMO mediums need more versatility and heavies need less versatility.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 23 October 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Yes they move faster but lights move even faster yet. Mediums literally do nothing that other weight classes cant do better.

The problem is the lack of role warfare. Mediums are supposed to be the most versatile weight class yet MWO punishes them for not being able to specialize in one area. IMO mediums need more versatility and heavies need less versatility.

The problem of being in the middle Kho. Everyone else is better than you. BTW, Mediums were not all that on TT either.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 23 October 2013 - 04:43 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The problem of being in the middle Kho. Everyone else is better than you. BTW, Mediums were not all that on TT either.

Yes but mediums were at least better than lights in TT. The problem in MWO is that lights are equal to heavies in usefuless while mediums are outright inferior to both.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 23 October 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Yes but mediums were at least better than lights in TT. The problem in MWO is that lights are equal to heavies in usefuless while mediums are outright inferior to both.

Mediums could take more punishment than lights, and could throw more damage than Lights, but lights could move faster gather higher to hit mods an paper cut a Medium down to size. Again it is the middle of the pack that is hurting the medium class.

[Khobai]

Quote

Mediums could take more punishment than lights, and could throw more damage than Lights, but lights could move faster gather higher to hit mods an paper cut a Medium down to size. Again it is the middle of the pack that is hurting the medium class

Speed wasnt as good in TT as it is in MWO though. The difference between a light and a medium was maybe a +1 to hit in TT. Where the difference between a 151kph light and a 100kph medium is absolutely enormous in MWO.

Anyways the point is role warfare could easily engineer a role for mediums to excel at. The problem is role warfare is non-existent. And weight balancing is just a lazy way to force players into medium mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 23 October 2013 - 05:06 AM.

[Mawai]

From what I have seen, matches with groups tend to have a greater variation in tonnage balance. I think there are several reasons for this.

1) The matchmaker seems to start off by putting groups on opposing teams then trying to fill in the holes. However, the algorithm seems to be pretty limited so it can't search the queues for the mechs it needs to balance a match.

2) Teams skew this when they drop with a particular tonnage. A team of light or medium mechs could end up facing a team of assaults (and vice versa) since the matchmaker doesn't break up groups.

3) The worst balance cases could be ones where there are 3 groups on each side. The matchmaker doesn't appear to prioritize the group tonnage ... perhaps it places more emphasis on the group ELO. In this situation the tonnage could be all over the place.

Bottom line is that it would be nice to have an in-depth developer description of how the matchmaker works and what refinements are planned or could be tried. This would be an ideal use of their test server if they ever actually put it back up.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 23 October 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

Speed wasnt as good in TT as it is in MWO though. The difference between a light and a medium was maybe a +1 to hit in TT. Where the difference between a 151kph light and a 100kph medium is absolutely enormous in MWO.

Anyways the point is role warfare could easily engineer a role for mediums to excel at. The problem is role warfare is non-existent. And weight balancing is just a lazy way to force players into medium mechs.

Only if you didn't use the advanced movement rules. Which we did!

[Voidcrafter]

I like my heavies to move about 84kph and even with the XL engine I fear no medium can do me any harm expect the situations that I'm quite badly damaged - but in those I admit it - I fear the lights more.
I literally shred through any sorts of medium mechs with my Cataphracts or/and Orions - not only that - I conciously am looking with engagements with mediums, cause I'm fully aware they don't stand a change against my firepower/armor ratio, also they're not fast enough to run away when realizing that themselves at least to try running away without dieing.
I liked my Hunchie 4SP before the alpha-meta reached it's final contageous stages - it was somewhat competitive mech back then. The same goes for my Zombie Cent 9A. Both of them were light mech's bane.
Now... with the SRM nerfs I can't even compete with the lights and I completely fear any single mech in the heavy and assault chasis.
I simply can't find use for the mediums except being some sort of back-end LRM support with light defence - and I'm not into playing that. Ever.
I'm more like the head-on aproach guy, even with my XL I like to be facehuggin the enemy and I build my heavies for that(as a friend of mine noticed, especially the face-hug part ). Back then - if you had the luck - you could've round a mid-skill Atlai pilot just like any ordinary light would circle around it - delivering punishment enough for bring it down.

Let's face it - the uselessnes of the medium mechs in the most of it's part comes from the SRM nerfing.
That's about it.
No matter what's the medium's weapon of choice now you just don't have that fearsome punch, that allowed you back then to think, that you have ANY chance at all against something heavier than you.
Now it takes just soooo long time with such a weaponary to take the target down, that, of course, completely logically - at some point you get your deserved punishment cause of your own lack of firepower.

Heavies - they can make the best use of the Ballistics - they have the spare tonage for it.
Mediums don't.
They had missiles that were doing something, now the (S)SRMs named lack the very same punch and if you're piloting one - you'll get boned for chosing so.
I love missiles and I miss them - and having in mind their situational usage, current spread, the skill required to operate em( you're not agreeing? Well... try to kill something that's circling around you with 170km/h by hitting the exact location you wish with the missiles and then I'll agree they're the noob's choice) I think that they require some buffing and if not completely, then to a great part it's (S)SRM's fault that mediums lack a role now.
That's my 5 cents at least.

Edited by Voidcrafter, 23 October 2013 - 05:11 AM.