575 replies to this topic

[Kenyon Burguess]

streakboats have always been bad news for lights, and because of that, I have always kept AMS on my lights at the sacrifice of some firepower. the golden range is 270-300m from the target at all times with cover between you, if you can do that the streakboats lose a large portion of their viability with the ams trimming each volley and some blocked by cover. I run 3-4 med lasers at a constant alpha and can take out their right torso in just a couple passes, its hard but I tend to win out in the extended fights. even tho I use streaks on a lot of my mechs, I would very much like to see the damage dropped by .5. also, don't chainfire your streaks ppls, it might look cool to shake the enemy view over and over but ams is wrecking the number of missles that can hit.

[Wispsy]

Ngamok, on 03 October 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Put in a bigger engine and get speed tweak.

Right and if that is not possible as engines are capped and you are at max?

DemonRaziel, on 03 October 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Highly unlikely. Unless the Spider is unarmed (also depends on the particular chassi, I guess).

I take it you do not play spiders or jenners that much?

[DemonRaziel]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

I take it you do not play spiders or jenners that much?

1200+ drops in Spider, ~400 in Jenner.

Edit: To avoid confusion, I'm not saying a Jenner can't normally defeat a Spider. I'm saying a JR using only a pair of streaks, with no laser support, will most likely lose to a SDR-5D in a pure 1v1 combat.

Edited by DemonRaziel, 03 October 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[Wispsy]

DemonRaziel, on 03 October 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

1200+ drops in Spider, ~400 in Jenner.

Edit: To avoid confusion, I'm not saying a Jenner can't normally defeat a Spider. I'm saying a JR using only a pair of streaks, with no laser support, will most likely lose to a SDR-5D in a pure 1v1 combat.

want to try and duel some time to try it out? I think you underestimate the sustained damage ssrms do, especially to spiders. Light fights are all about dodging shots on both sides. One side cannot dodge. The other side must have perfect aim, which just does not even happen in a light fight no matter how skilled.

[Kunae]

DemonRaziel, on 03 October 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

1200+ drops in Spider, ~400 in Jenner.

Edit: To avoid confusion, I'm not saying a Jenner can't normally defeat a Spider. I'm saying a JR using only a pair of streaks, with no laser support, will most likely lose to a SDR-5D in a pure 1v1 combat.

I believe what Wispsy is saying is that you can dodge lasers, or at least most of the duration, but you can't dodge streaks.

[stjobe]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

I believe what Wispsy is saying is that you can dodge lasers, or at least most of the duration, but you can't dodge streaks.

That's the point I was trying to make a few pages back, to no avail. Streaks can't be dodged, that's why people don't want them "nerfed", because then they'd have to actually try to hit lights manually - and that's hard.

Guaranteed hits on hard-to-hit targets, and no threat to heavier 'mechs. What's not to love for a heavy/assault pilot?

Also, Wispsy. We feared him in closed beta. Unholy terror in a Jenner.

Edited by stjobe, 03 October 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[DemonRaziel]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

want to try and duel some time to try it out? I think you underestimate the sustained damage ssrms do, especially to spiders. Light fights are all about dodging shots on both sides. One side cannot dodge. The other side must have perfect aim, which just does not even happen in a light fight no matter how skilled.

Absolutely, I would love to try it. Streaks are a big advantage, but they do a little over half the damage the Spider does. Jenner's streaks damage is spread out by default, Spider's laser damage is spread out by Jenner's dodging. Armor is a bit better for Jenner, but his hitboxes are worse than the Spider's.

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

I believe what Wispsy is saying is that you can dodge lasers, or at least most of the duration, but you can't dodge streaks.

I know what he means and I share your guys' opinion on streaks. I'm just saying that the 10 dmg spread all over the 'Mech is, in and of itself, not enough to take the Spider down fast enough, when he shoots back.

We all know the Jenner, is a CT on legs (with a bit of a head on top of it), so it's not that easy for him to avoid/spread all the damage effectively from Spider's lasers.

Of course, this is all based on both pilots being equal in skill.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

I believe what Wispsy is saying is that you can dodge lasers, or at least most of the duration, but you can't dodge streaks.

71% accuracy with Streaks...???

[Imperius]

Remove ssrm's and give all mechs the speed of 140k sounds fair to me. Honestly if you can't fight a light hunter then you just found out you're not a good light pilot.

[Wispsy]

DemonRaziel, on 03 October 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

Absolutely, I would love to try it.

What is your average queue time?

Imperius, on 03 October 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Honestly if you can't fight a light hunter then you just found out you're not a good light pilot.

Dumbest thing to say ever...

[MisterPlanetarian]

My streaks have like 65% accuracy because I primarily use them as a deterrant against light mech harassment. Nobody stays around to try and nail a D-DC in open field with a light under 300 meters unless you can run behind cover for the streak volley.

If you do stay out in the open well thats your problem.

Edit: Yes mechs like the kintaro are specifically used to hunt down light mechs and other mediums. But if you have problems with something like a stalker because of streaks you need to pick better targets.

Edited by MisterPlanetarian, 03 October 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[Ngamok]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Right and if that is not possible as engines are capped and you are at max?

116 KPH vs. 151 KPH? Who is catching up as you say. Spiders and Jenners can just over things to avoid getting chased.

Edit: Would agree with you on the 2X and 4X though and those two should get an engine rating buff.

Edited by Ngamok, 03 October 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[Wispsy]

MisterPlanetarian, on 03 October 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Edit: Yes mechs like the kintaro are specifically used to hunt down light mechs and other mediums. But if you have problems with something like a stalker because of streaks you need to pick better targets.

You say this...was in 12mans the other day...came accross a few teams with 10 mechs having ssrms. Was not their main weapons, they just had them. Doing anything at all that fight in a light or medium...yeah....

[DemonRaziel]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 October 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

71% accuracy with Streaks...???

Same here. But that's more of a lazy aiming on our side than actual dodging - 'Mechs in water, behind obstacles and so on...

[Wispsy]

Ngamok, on 03 October 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

116 KPH vs. 151 KPH? Who is catching up as you say. Spiders and Jenners can just over things to avoid getting chased.

Eh? Jenners and Ravens and Commandos can use SSRMs too...they can run as fast Oo

[Joseph Mallan]

DemonRaziel, on 03 October 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Same here. But that's more of a lazy aiming on our side than actual dodging - 'Mechs in water, behind obstacles and so on...

Still missing.

[DemonRaziel]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

What is your average queue time?

Pfuu, that's a hard one. Sometimes it takes seconds, sometimes 2 minutes. But if it's Elo you're after... I drop with Kunae, PEEF, DV81 every now and then... But not regularly, so I'd say I'm a bit lower.

Edited by DemonRaziel, 03 October 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[Sephlock]

Vodrin Thales, on 03 October 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

I have a feeling streak 4's and 6's will have much longer cooldowns with higher heat production. It's the only way I can see them being the least bit acceptable to the unreasonable whiners who LOOOVVEEE their lag hitbox shield, and view abusing that as "skillful", whereas restricting yourself to a weapon that can only lock on and spread scattered damage at ranges where no healthy human is likely to miss their pinpoint shots without the intervention of lag = unacceptable.

Edited by Sephlock, 03 October 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[Mr 144]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

You say this...was in 12mans the other day...came accross a few teams with 10 mechs having ssrms. Was not their main weapons, they just had them. Doing anything at all that fight in a light or medium...yeah....

Could that just possibly be, that for most, they have missile hardpoints and when faced with the choice of broken SRMs or underpowered LRMs....they might as well up there main guns and round out the build with the only currently useful missile option?

Every time SRMs get borked, and to a lesser extent LRMs, it creates havoc with the game balance. The entire sniper Meta...now Streaks...fix SRMs and you won't see 10 of 12 with em on.

Edited by Mr 144, 03 October 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[Ngamok]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Eh? Jenners and Ravens and Commandos can use SSRMs too...they can run as fast Oo

So the arguement went from Kintaro vs. Lights to Lights vs. Lights. Now you wonder why the 3L was always so good before HSR and why when they were gonna give the Jenner ECM people complained.