127 replies to this topic

[Hawkcrest]

Keep in mind, that if you stay true to the Clan way, Clanners would bid on how many mechs they would use to accomplish a particular battle, and those that used the least would be given the fight

[Stormwolf]

Hawkcrest, on 12 November 2011 - 02:53 PM, said:

Keep in mind, that if you stay true to the Clan way, Clanners would bid on how many mechs they would use to accomplish a particular battle, and those that used the least would be given the fight

Oh yes, we also like to take lighter designs.

The perfect bid would be to fight a Atlas with a Firemoth while having one arm tied behind your back. It's all about showing how badass you are.

[Gaius Cavadus]

I agree; 3rd or 4th SWar would have been infinitely better.

[Kudzu]

Hodo, on 12 November 2011 - 09:51 AM, said:

You obviously have a problem with my statement. And thus will be first on my list of people I will just destroy repeatedly in game. You can offer your Zellbringing or whatever you clanner fanbois want to call it, all you want. I will just blow your legs off and leave you. Nothing says cheap shot like legging a mech in Mechwarrior.

Hodo unlocked the achievement "Internet tough-guy".

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And i know maturity, I just hate the clans. To me they were the destruction of Battletech.

Dark Age did it for me. I didn't even mind Jihad once I got used to it (though I despised it at first).

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It was either get on board or get run over with the overpowered, powergaming attitude, of the typical clan player. FASA back peddled for years trying to balance the clans after their introduction. They gave up and just gave the IS all the clan stuff.

Or, you know, adapt and play better. It actually takes a pretty decent player to do well consistently with the clans in a BV balanced fight.

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I challenge you to go and get MegaMek and run a few dozen battles at different BVs clan vs IS-3049 and see how that works out for you. I am sure if you just let the AI fight it out, the clans will win most of the fights if not ALL of the fights.

I'll take you up on the first and play either side, but the AI is awful in MM so using it as a metric really wouldn't show much of anything.

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You can even do this up until 3053 tech, it will still end the same. Clans = gamers who like power gaming, meta-gamers, and just players who cant stand to lose to skill and guile.

Nice sweeping generalization. I've played tons of games on both sides and it's actually fairly well balanced under BV 2. Your typical matchup should end up with a 1.5 or 2 to one unit advantage for the IS. If you want to win as a clanner you have to use your speed and abuse the hell out of the range brackets. If you want to win as the IS you have to use your numbers to pin the clanners in where their advantages don't matter. Too often I'd see spheroids take an all assault army to try to out-range the clans and fail. It takes a well-balanced army using the terrain to get in, focus down, and take them out.

The clans are a scalpel, the IS is a hammer. Two different playstyles and in the hands of a good player both are equally deadly.

[Kudzu]

Stormwolf, on 12 November 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:

Oh yes, we also like to take lighter designs.

The perfect bid would be to fight a Atlas with a Firemoth while having one arm tied behind your back. It's all about showing how badass you are.

If you want a laugh, under BV2 and both with 4/5 pilots:
Firemoth D bv: 1916
AS7-K bv: 2175

[Oppi]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 12 November 2011 - 01:28 PM, said:

Draconis Combine still exists, and they've had their old-style Bushido for centuries before Theodore got th bright idea to change it.
Yeah, they too had problems changing tactics and the like.

The Draconis Combine - like every other Inner Sphere state - also have their secret service (the ISF), they use ambushes and overthrow enemies by outnumbering them. The Clans despise espionage and ambush tactics, and being dezgra means being extinguished from the clans breeding program.
Bushido is an ideal, but inside the DCMS it never had the status, Zellbrigen has within the Clan military. Their soldiers don't grow up believing, that honor is the only way to secure your own immortality because it brings your genes into the breeding program.
In fact, the Samurai of terra were wiped out because of them clinging to their honor code (which for example prevented them from using firearms the way, western armies did).

@ Stormwolf

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Many people want this game to be set in 3025, but there's really only two groups who want this:

1. The group of people who want to see this game as balanced as possible.[...]

2. The die-hard 3025 purists[...]

You are missing 3 : The people who just think the succsession wars setting would be really cool, who'd like to see it in a game again and who are sick of piloting and fighting the same boring clan chassis from MW 2 up to MW4. There have been many games with the clans in it, but after MW1 there was none without them, and I think that's a bad thing, because the Inner Sphere was a cool place before the invasion, and it's history did not start in 3050. There are hundreds of exciting stories to be told and experienced in the eras of the star league or the succession wars, but they never will be in a Mech Warrior game because of some kiddies who cannot live without their Timberwolves and their ER-PPCs (and the devs believing those are the majority of potential players). That just s*cks.

The clans were a very interesting thing in the novels, because of their background, their culture, their history and so on. Ingame, they'll just be the people with superior firepower. Not cool at all.

Edited by Oppi, 12 November 2011 - 05:37 PM.

[Glare]

Hodo, on 11 November 2011 - 11:47 PM, said:

And I already know now, I will be banned for abuse of clan players in game. My goal is to make it as unfun as possible for them. I dont just hate the clans, I LOATH the clans.

DCMS member since 1986.

I'm fairly certain that directed and intentional harassment is against board rules and will eventually result in your banning well before the game even ships.

Courtesy of the Code of Conduct link at the bottom of the page

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This category includes both clear and masked language and/or links to websites containing such language or images which:

• Insultingly refer to other characters, players, Piranha Games Inc. employees, or groups of people
  
• Result in ongoing harassment to other characters, players, Piranha Games Inc. employees, or groups of people

If a player is found to have participated in such actions, he/she will:

• Be given a temporary ban from the forums, depending upon severity

Harassment takes many forms, and is not necessarily limited to the type of language used, but the intent. Repeatedly targeting a specific player with harassment can lead to more severe action. The idea behind this is to prevent any one player from consistently being uncomfortable in the forums.

EDIT: Whoa, it's a good thing I put quotes in there. I just realized I was only at the bottom of page 2.

Edited by Glare, 12 November 2011 - 06:53 PM.

[rollermint]

Hodo, on 12 November 2011 - 09:51 AM, said:

You obviously have a problem with my statement. And thus will be first on my list of people I will just destroy repeatedly in game. You can offer your Zellbringing or whatever you clanner fanbois want to call it, all you want. I will just blow your legs off and leave you. Nothing says cheap shot like legging a mech in Mechwarrior. And i know maturity, I just hate the clans.

^^ NerdRage. lol. Sooooo angry haha.

I wonder if you actually talk like this with your friends around the TT games, were they impressed?

The devs should sell for real cash pilot skillsets such as "Grow Up", "Get Over It" and "Tough Luck, Whiner"...you know, the stuffs. People like Hodo would probably make PGI a lot of money

[Hodo]

Glare, on 12 November 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

I'm fairly certain that directed and intentional harassment is against board rules and will eventually result in your banning well before the game even ships.

Courtesy of the Code of Conduct link at the bottom of the page


EDIT: Whoa, it's a good thing I put quotes in there. I just realized I was only at the bottom of page 2.

And no where have I broke any of those rules. As everything I will do is in game.

Kudzu, on 12 November 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:

Hodo unlocked the achievement "Internet tough-guy".
Or, you know, adapt and play better. It actually takes a pretty decent player to do well consistently with the clans in a BV balanced fight.

Thank you, LOL.

But seriously I played against the clans for years. I never bothered to play clans, but I understood their tactics and psyche. I hated all aspects of that idea of the game. I did fight and beat the clans. But I had to throw out the DCMS ideas of honorable combat as soon as possible. I quickly became no better than those useless Dragoons.

I just hate the later tech eras they are hard to balance till you get into the mid to late 3050s. Early Clan invasion is a ugly timeframe for balance. If you look at the planetary map, in 2 years the clans took almost 1/5th of the Inner Sphere, from 2 of the most powerful houses in the IS. And had it not been for a fluke written in for a pause for the game writers to catch up and balance the game.

I am always going to push for a Succession War, or War of 3039 game time.

[Glare]

You've clearly been insulting Clan players in any thread you care to chime in on in such a way that could easily be viewed as insulting.

Insultingly refer to other characters, players, groups of people, etc.:

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overpowered, powergaming attitude, of the typical clan player

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Clans = gamers who like power gaming, meta-gamers, and just players who cant stand to lose to skill and guile.

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"Timmy The Powergamer"

Stated intent to harass:

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My goal is to make it as unfun as possible for them

So seriously, cool it. We get that you don't like the Clans. But when over 10% of your posts contain derogatory or inflammatory language therein, it's time to stop.

[phelanjkell]

Hodo,

I do understand your point in the OP, but I do hope you understand that this game is in good hands. The DEV team will develop a system to implement Clan tech that is balanced. Now how and when are two of the big questions in regard to your OP.

The great thing about this game, at least from what I have understood so far, is though battlemechs are powerful and full of death and destruction; it will be up to YOU and me piloting them to bring that full potential out of the battlemech.

So I guess in the end, even if someone does have a Clan mech, if they are not skilled enough to pilot it to its full potential they will be target practice for the rest of us.

But like your OP, I am curious to how they intend to bring the Clans into the game and the technology they bring with them.

[Venkman]

Stormwolf, on 12 November 2011 - 10:25 AM, said:

You are making one huge error here, the Timber Wolf you named is pretty much the symbol of Mechwarrior.

Most casual gamers are gonna go: "no Mad Cat, this sucks".

This is like saying that no one will buy Assassin's Creed 3 because Ezio won't be in the game to recognize, or that the gaming public would just ignore a new Mass Effect without Shepard on the box, etc. Nobody's going to play Star Wars: The Old Republic because it doesn't have anyone named Skywalker in it, right? Halo ODST and Reach sure sold a hell of a lot of copies without the Master Chief.

It's a game about giant robots shooting each other. Anybody out there that likes the idea of piloting a giant robot to shoot other giant robots isn't going to turn away from this game because Mad Cats aren't there. You say that the casual gamer only recognizes the Mad Cat, but dude, it's been ten years since another MechWarrior game was released. I gotta ask, WHO are these multitudes of casual gamers that only remember the box-art 'Mech from the earlier games and will be completely devastated/uninterested if that box-art 'Mech isn't there? And why the hell did the MechAssault games make money, then? Neither of them had a Timberwolf on the box.

[Archer Avenger Christifori]

OP must not be Capellan if he thinks there aren't balancing issues in the 4th Succession War.

[Glare]

Archer Avenger Christifori, on 12 November 2011 - 09:26 PM, said:

OP must not be Capellan if he thinks there aren't balancing issues in the 4th Succession War.

This post just made my night.

[Kayve Fawkes]

Oppi, on 12 November 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:

The clans were a very interesting thing in the novels, because of their background, their culture, their history and so on. Ingame, they'll just be the people with superior firepower. Not cool at all.

In my experience, those who professed a love of the Clan way, failed to live by the Clan way. The rapid embrace of the Clans and their "culture" usually masks the side effect of coming into possession of advanced and superior weaponry. Too many times I have seen so-called "Clanners" get frustrated in battle and resort to a timely "legging", usually from a long range with superior weapons. Until I see players adhering to the Clan culture, regardless of what it costs in game, then I will always consider "Clanner" players to be those who only play with the superior tech.

[feor]

Stormwolf, on 12 November 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:

Oh yes, we also like to take lighter designs.

The perfect bid would be to fight a Atlas with a Firemoth while having one arm tied behind your back. It's all about showing how badass you are.

Considering the arrangement of the Firemoth's arms, I'm not sure that's physically possible.

in regards to the greater thread that seems to be running through this conversation:

People claiming that Clans "ruined" battletech and "destroyed the franchise" need to go do something unpleasant to themselves. Change is not bad and while, yes, you can power game with Clantech, you can also powergame with Inner Sphere tech. Even Inner Sphere 3050 tech. It's only a matter of degrees, and how much effort you have to put in to break the game.

And not everyone who plays the Clans does so for the technology & being able to power game. I proudly count myself among the ranks of the Ice Hellions. When I play my Ice Hellions (I do have Spheroid forces as well) I adhere to clan rules.

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Too many times I have seen so-called "Clanners" get frustrated in battle and resort to a timely "legging", usually from a long range with superior weapons.

What does shooting an enemy's leg have to do with not playing like a Clan Warrior? If you're dumb enough to approach me through the open, when I have a targeting computer and can call a shot on your leg you deserve what you get. Same with letting me get behind you. Or running your mech till you shut down. Zellbriggen is not about letting your opponent get away with stupid things, zellbriggen is about making warfare a personal thing between two warriors, not some faceless mass warfare mindless slaughter like what happened in the first and second succession wars and the Amaris coup.

I'd say your problem is not that you hate clanners, I'd say your problem is you play with power gamers who use "being clan" as an excuse to break the game.

[Amechwarrior]

Kayve Fawkes, on 12 November 2011 - 10:34 PM, said:

Too many times I have seen so-called "Clanners" get frustrated in battle and resort to a timely "legging"...

If that was MW3, that yea, I have always considered MW3 broken because of that. On the other hand, MW4 increased the max armor on the legs to a good balance, given you maxed it out and did not skimp it for extra tonnage for weapons and sinks. Nowhere in the Clans Honor rules does it say you cannot target the leg or head of the 'mech or even shoot it when it is down. I am not saying that their is not a over abundance of whiny Clanners, just legging is not a good example unless it was MW3.

[garrett]

Kayve Fawkes, on 12 November 2011 - 10:34 PM, said:

In my experience, those who professed a love of the Clan way, failed to live by the Clan way ... Until I see players adhering to the Clan culture, regardless of what it costs in game, then I will always consider "Clanner" players to be those who only play with the superior tech.

Let's not lose sight of what this game is actually about. To most players this will be a computer game that is all about having fun stomping around in giant robots and blowing things up, not a role playing game where their goal is to faithfully recreate the BattleTech universe.

It's OK to love BattleTech, and there's nothing wrong with choosing to role play within this game, but you should not look down on those that make decisions based on the mechanics the game presents rather than the lore behind them.

[Hodo]

Glare, on 12 November 2011 - 08:26 PM, said:

You've clearly been insulting Clan players in any thread you care to chime in on in such a way that could easily be viewed as insulting.

Insultingly refer to other characters, players, groups of people, etc.:



Stated intent to harass:


So seriously, cool it. We get that you don't like the Clans. But when over 10% of your posts contain derogatory or inflammatory language therein, it's time to stop.

If those things are insulting to people, then they need to cowboy up and get over it. Because that is by far the least insulting things I have ever said on the internet let alone a forum. I have been quite restrained in what I have called them, and many of my posts have been my honest feelings about them. Many clan players ARE power gamers, that is not to say there are not clan players who are very good gamers who enjoy the fluff and the storyline of the clans. I have meet a few... note key word there is FEW. But its like most Davion players are those who think about freedom, justice, and the American way.... Yet Davion is FRENCH. Or the Kurita players who think, YEAH SAMURAI AND NINJA! But are surprised to find out that the DCMS is fielded with paranoia and backstabbing. And I am a Kurita player.

Few people joined the Wolf's Dragoons because Jamie Wolf was a looser... no they joined the Dragoons because they were the best. This is why you dont hear about many players who decided to become part of the Wilson's Hussars, because they were horrible. (they got better though)

Clans just managed to draw the larger share of power gamers than most of the houses in the inner sphere. Its unfortunate but it is true.

I do not hate clan players, I just hate the clans. If this means that I will kill there mechs in the most unfun way possible. Then so be it. But I will not resort to cheating, hacking or non-skill based means. I will lose a few, but I will win a few. And when I win, it will be a battle that the clan players will not enjoy. Because I will leg them and leave them until I decide to kill them. Or I will blow off every bit of weapons on their mechs, because the clans LOVE to mount everything in the side torso and arms. Is it griefing to kill you enemy as cruely as possible, I think not. I can grief them... I can tea bag their downed mechs, and call them hurtful names that make them want to quit at life... But I wont do that without a personal reason. Because that is a personal thing.

So in closing do not try and rules lawyer me for something you obviously have a wild hair up your tailpipe about. And if you have a problem with me, I am Hodo everywhere, in every game I play. So PM me here or anywhere else, and I will gladly continue this discussion which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread in a PM. But I am done with this conversation in this thread.

GOOD DAY SIR!

[Hodo]

Archer Avenger Christifori, on 12 November 2011 - 09:26 PM, said:

OP must not be Capellan if he thinks there aren't balancing issues in the 4th Succession War.

Sorry this is good, not much you can do for the poor limp sword. They really did get the mudkips stomped out of them by Davion.