427 replies to this topic

[Artgathan]

Poked my head around a corner to observe the enemy in my Centurion-A and went from fully armoured (36 Front Armor + 24 Internal) to missing my left torso and arm in the blink of an eye (literally - I blinked going around the corner and when I opened my eyes again half my mech was missing).

The problem with Mediums? The damage output of the other mechs is too damn high!

[Mudhutwarrior]

I mastered all the cents and trebs. Fine machines and a lot of fun but in this metric serve no real purpose in the feild except for teams who know how to use them. Its not the mediums that are broken its the game.

[Ngamok]

Mudhutwarrior, on 15 October 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

I mastered all the cents and trebs. Fine machines and a lot of fun but in this metric serve no real purpose in the feild except for teams who know how to use them. Its not the mediums that are broken its the game.

Just wait till they put in lobbies and people can agree on game make up. Like running 12 vs 12 all Mediums and such.

[Sirez]

The majority of my 'mechs are medium. I personally love them, and honestly, I don't really care if others choose not to use them. They either don't like them, or don't know how to use them effectively and that's fine. I consistently use a Kintaro 19 and do rather well, even though I've heard people say that Kintaros are terrible (granted, someone, somewhere will call every 'mech terrible). I also use a Cicada pretty often, and it's a friggin' fantastic 'light-but-not-light' 'mech. It's like not drinking diet soda but getting all the benefits you would get from a diet soda.

I don't really think it's necessary to provide an incentive to get people to play a certain type of 'mech. If they don't want to play one, they won't play one. Let lights continue to run headlong into danger and get legged, and let assaults continue to be late to the party and circle strafed. Doesn't really effect me either way.

[Shakespeare]

well, you'll see plenty of mediums this evening! Until the heavies and assaults gobble them up repeatedly, at which point they'll switch to lights or heavy/assault just like everyone else.
Weight matching would increase the relative value of a medium pilot since he or she wouldn't be expected to kill multiple assaults per match. Games where mediums have outnumbered assaults have been my favorite games to play. Faster, more tactical, and longer survival rates.
Role warfare is an important aspect to emphasize, but ultimately the task for each team is destroying the other team quickly. The mechs with more guns are able to do that easier. But limiting the big fellas actually makes for a more interesting game, where medium pilots fill defensive gaps and duel it out with higher-powered, but generally XL-equipped, heavies.
The other thing to keep in mind is that right now, it makes sense for most every mech to pack on ballistics, since you need the high-end weapons to kill assaults before they kill you. But if you don't expect to be outtonned by 30% of the team, suddenly it might not be necessary to run your jager or phract like a glass cannon and you could trade out those heavy guns for lighter ones and a standard engine. Now it's mobility vs firepower. That's the game I want to play.

[Blacksoul1987]

was running my blackjack all morning till the server went down without any issue. its my second highest KD mech so far just behind the spider 5k

[Mechteric]

Artgathan, on 15 October 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Poked my head around a corner to observe the enemy in my Centurion-A and went from fully armoured (36 Front Armor + 24 Internal) to missing my left torso and arm in the blink of an eye (literally - I blinked going around the corner and when I opened my eyes again half my mech was missing).

The problem with Mediums? The damage output of the other mechs is too damn high!

Bad example, you just took a wrong turn at Albuquerque. You gotta be a bit more situationally aware of your environment and keep your speed up to avoid such mistakes in the future.


I am on board with the consensus that many of the mediums (and Quickdraw) are too large. The Hunchback and the BlackJack are the only ones I think are appropriately sized. I guess we'll see how the Shadow Hawk fares today also.

[DyDrimer]

I play Med-mechs the majority of time and do pretty well with them all. My kintaro-18 is my highest damage ranked mech i have had with 6 kills and close to 1000 damage in one game and average over 500 damage. Its the only mech i seem to be able to take on more then one mech at a time and walk away from. And with the "OP" spiders running around in the game i seem to rack them up. Yes it has "OP" streaks so i can kill "OP" lights. Meds are great all around mechs, i havent tried blackjacks or buckets, think BJs will be next, just so i can say i hit them with my wang till i got bored and got a bj....=)

[Kassatsu]

I like the idea of the less used chassis earning a c-bill bonus, but then people would just buy one of every type of mech so they can maximize their grinding efficiency. It would do nothing to balance how good/bad the chassis are or the game at large.

The problem with mediums is you get builds like the 2xAC2 2xAC5 jager or 3xUAC5 ilya/jager that just rip everything - even atlases apart in mere seconds, there's no reason to use a medium when it's nearly the same size, unnoticeably faster and has MUCH less firepower than the previously mentioned builds. An atlas would at least be able to put up a reasonable fight, but a medium? You might turn their side torso yellow before you die. Good luck flanking heavies even in a hunchback with a maxed engine. Lights have their speed and small size on their side, not to mention comparable firepower to most mediums. Mediums are just targets most of the time. EDIT: And that's saying nothing of the AC40 jagers/K2s. One good hit and much like a light mech, you're pretty much screwed. A heavy/assault can generally survive that - with torso armor to spare, but a medium is going to be cored instantly.

That said, I still rather like my HBK-4SP, but given the relatively small number of viable loadouts and the fact that I'm barely able to outrun most heavies (this is with a 265 engine and speed tweak, a whole two engine sizes below the cap for the chassis), and have firepower comparable to a light, it's just not useful at all. My orions are a tiny bit slower (something like 85.5? I forget, 360XL), have more armor (because who dies to a side torso loss in an orion with an XL, seriously) and MUCH more firepower.

I'm beginning to think the devs just want everyone to run 3x UAC5 in a heavy mech that can equip it, an atlas D-DC or any of the ECM light mechs.

Edited by Kassatsu, 15 October 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Artgathan]

CapperDeluxe, on 15 October 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Bad example, you just took a wrong turn at Albuquerque. You gotta be a bit more situationally aware of your environment and keep your speed up to avoid such mistakes in the future.


I am on board with the consensus that many of the mediums (and Quickdraw) are too large. The Hunchback and the BlackJack are the only ones I think are appropriately sized. I guess we'll see how the Shadow Hawk fares today also.

So using a fast-moving (comparatively speaking) medium to scout ahead of the heavy / assault mechs was a mistake? The shots that hit me came from 600m out, so it wasn't like I was playing peek-a-boo with an Atlas at 20m. In the future I'll try to use my X-Ray vision more often.

EDIT: Also, no medium (save maybe the Cicada) has the sort of profile where high speeds will allow it to dodge shots. Therefore, were you suggesting that mediums should just avoid ever being in the LOS of another mech?

Edited by Artgathan, 15 October 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[YueFei]

Deathlike, on 12 October 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

I'm not sure how the UAV bonus will function. It might be as simple as "# of mechs spotted by UAV" = bonus. It's probably going to be bad.

I use it when it makes sense to use it since it eats into my rewards. In higher level play, there's a lot more ECM involved, and anything to help spot for your teammates in 12-mans allows them to do their job that much better (its not exactly a wallhack, but more of a limited form of old radar spotting in older MW games). It's great for blocking out the sun with Lurms, but that weapon can't always be used on some maps (Crimson Strait is definitely one of them). When it works... it works well.

Well, even aside from LRMs, if you can get a UAV up and un-noticed, I feel like your teammates can then get targeting brackets ahead of time and pop someone with concentrated fire as soon as he exposes himself. But it just seems like my UAVs don't do much to help my team. =/

Thinking about it more, maybe my mistake is in launching it too early. I am faster than the assaults and heavies, so I get to the front quicker, and when I see a blob on seismic I throw it up, but I suppose even if the enemy doesn't shoot my UAV down, my own assaults and heavies aren't in position yet to take advantage of it. I should do what you said, wait until the action begins, and then throw it up when people are focused on the front. Even if it stays up for only a few seconds, it may be enough for the team to pick out a target that's about to expose himself, and pop him as soon as he leaves cover.

[Ghogiel]

I figured out how to get players to play more medium mechs.

Tighten the Elo range MM uses to find matches. Or boost players Elo on assaults. They'll be in mediums in no time.

I can't even get matches in my assault this time of day lol. I am forced to run mediums if I want to actually play the damn game at certain times.

[Joseph Mallan]

PGI could pay me. That would get me to play Mediums!

[Khobai]

Quote

The problem with mediums is you get builds like the 2xAC2 2xAC5 jager or 3xUAC5 ilya/jager that just rip everything - even atlases apart in mere seconds

I dont really see that as a problem. I mean heavier mechs should rip lighter mechs apart. The problem is that any non-combat role a medium mech could perform, a light mech does a much better job of. So basically medium mechs are good at nothing, and thats the problem.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I love the people who say "I do great in medium mechs, so they are fine".

It's honestly amazing how myopic people are.

Khobai, on 18 October 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

I dont really see that as a problem. I mean heavier mechs should rip lighter mechs apart. The problem is that any non-combat role a medium mech could perform, a light mech does a much better job of. So basically medium mechs are good at nothing, and thats the problem.

That and there really aren't any non-combat roles in this game because it is so flat.

Oh wait, there is the utterly boring and poorly thought out capping mechanic that is about as dynamic as a game of tic-tac-toe.

Even their new attack/defend game type won't be any better. Because the game lacks any mechanics for random gameplay.

Maybe if we had random drop points and random base spawns, scouting and recon would be important.

[Charons Little Helper]

I really think that once weight limits are in - people will play mediums.

Some say teams will just have assaults & lights.

However - if half of everyone is a light - the metagame will shift and Kintaros (and other medium anti-light builds) will become semi-prevelant. A team with 3 of them would shred the 6 light mechs on the other team. Then it would be 9 mechs vs 6 assaults. I'm sorry - they'd be crushed.

(I know that my example is overly simplistic - but it's still generally true.)

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 18 October 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Charons Little Helper, on 18 October 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

I really think that once weight limits are in - people will play mediums.

Some say teams will just have assaults & lights.

However - if half of everyone is a light - the metagame will shift and Kintaros (and other medium anti-light builds) will become semi-prevelant. A team with 3 of them would shred the 6 light mechs on the other team. Then it would be 9 mechs vs 6 assaults. I'm sorry - they'd be crushed.

(I know that my example is overly simplistic - but it's still generally true.)

You do realize that you don't need to be a Kintaro to carry Streaks right? Just snag the Highlander variant with 4 missile hardpoints. And then you can still pack a pair of PPC's and an UAC5 or whatever the hell you decide to put on it.

Mediums either need to be scaled down, or ALL medium mechs need their hitboxes adjusted to mirror the Centurion.

[Gremlich Johns]

CapperDeluxe, on 15 October 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Bad example, you just took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

Mate, you're showing your age. And me for pointing it out......

[Johnny Reb]

Make more mediums like the Shadow Hawk. Damn fine mech!

[Ghogiel]

I am a 5 W/L and +3 KDR in my shawk tonight. My Bj stats are pretty good for a 45tonner. I do alright in them, doesn't change the fact that heavies and assaults are better.