124 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Ghogiel, on 12 October 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Not all of the shots have view frustum DoF warping. The shaqwk is going to be a fairly lanky mech.

AGREED, BUT i DON´T THINK IT´WILL BE AS GINORMOUS AT THE SHOT NEARblasted new keyboard...keep hitting caplock., ANYHOW, I think tall and skinny. But we will see.

[C E Dwyer]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 October 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

sadly, I think you are wrong. =(

Well most of the offical screen shots are pretty awful, I've no idea what they do to them but they allways look distorted the dragon slayer screen shot made me go WTF and words to that effect, but once in game it dosn't look to bad, if a bit to 'ape' like for my taste compared to the orginal ink drawing, and the ral partha model.

This one dosn't look any different, so until I see it in game I won't pass judgement on its size, but I'm not that bothered to be honest

Bishop Steiner, on 12 October 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

AGREED, BUT i DON´T THINK IT´WILL BE AS GINORMOUS AT THE SHOT NEARblasted new keyboard...keep hitting caplock., ANYHOW, I think tall and skinny. But we will see.

New keyboard, made by Jack daniels ?

[Ghogiel]

Yeah they always seem to get some unflattering shots. The first HGN shot of the HM was one that really made me cringe. But actually in game it looks alright.

[Ingvay]

What I don't get... is why not lineup a shot of the four phoenix mechs side by side in a place like Crimson Straight and show a spider at one end next to the Locust,a Centurion in the middle next to the SH and an Atlas at the other end next to the Battlemaster. Then we wouldn't have to wonder if the scale seems accurate... easy peesy. Sheesh.

[TexAce]

why is no one able to shoot stills looking straight at both mechs from far away???

[Name140704]

Ingvay, on 12 October 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

What I don't get... is why not lineup a shot of the four phoenix mechs side by side in a place like Crimson Straight and show a spider at one end next to the Locust,a Centurion in the middle next to the SH and an Atlas at the other end next to the Battlemaster. Then we wouldn't have to wonder if the scale seems accurate... easy peesy. Sheesh.

We're dealing with NGNG here. Do you remember their Orion video?

[aniviron]

GODzillaGSPB, on 12 October 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

...is there a source to that?

Yes, actually- it was in an ATD when someone asked why the scaling was so whack, they answered that they try to get as close to canon heights as possible.

The problem is that in canon, things are scaled arbitrarily, as few people even know what the canon heights are, and the heights don't matter. For referece:
Firemoth: 20 tons, 11.5m
Direwolf: 100 tons, 12.5m

[MoonUnitBeta]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 October 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

wait a sec...... the ray trace doo hickey........ that's what bugging me. You follow the toes for a fixed point, which is fine, but the other traces all are angled to meet that, meaning they don't really tell you much. That angle

following those upper lines as a consistent guide is fallacious. Look at hos the Cnty shrinks as a "slide" it to follow those guides.

I grant I don't know the "maths" but, I do know if you place a Centy at those points on that map, it ain't that small, which is what following those traces would tell you.

You have a hill in the way of your lines, in your image you're putting the centurion far inside of the hill... I wouldn't say by much, but man that FOV is cranked at ridiculous levels. I don't know how anyone thinks that's playable lol. Sure you see more but it makes the game looks awful. Vertical trees slant sideways?

What's really stupid is the screenshots of the Shadowhawk are alllll taken on an angle and with the ridiculous FOV it only exagurates the difference. Like.. the person who took the photo is likely just trolling the community. These aren't a "hey hey, come stand beside the Shadowhawk" Like those disney land pictures you get with mickey mouse and stuff? This is a diliberate "stand beside the shadowhawk so we can do a comparison." But they take the picture at an angle. Yea. Right. GG. All this guessing and comparing is wasted time though. We're ganna know in a few days.

Anyways, here's it not at an angle. I still wouldn't even consider this even an acceptable piece that should be used for comparison unless you are taking it with a 15lb salt block. When the source images are so shoddy with ridiculous perspective angles like this, it makes it hard to draw an accurate conclusion on the intended size... and in the end, you're still left in wonder.


^
Edit: See that white corner in the bottom left? Yeah that's more than a 45 degree angle. That's how much I had to enlarge one side of the image just to correct the perspective. Terrible terrible pictures who ever took them. I'm assuming this is all NGNG's work. Those guys **** me off. With their interviews especially, and now these shoddy screencaps.


Edit: Here's a rough size corrected image of the image above..

Spoiler

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 12 October 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

This jives with my picture of the wall shadow on the hangar/warehouse door. The Shadow Hawk is as tall as the fins of a Centurion.

It is still pretty tall, though. It will be the size of a Trebuchet, and not the runt like a Hunchback is.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 13 October 2013 - 12:02 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MoonUnitBeta, on 12 October 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

You have a hill in the way of your lines, in your image you're putting the centurion far inside of the hill... I wouldn't say by much, but man that FOV is cranked at ridiculous levels. I don't know how anyone thinks that's playable lol. Sure you see more but it makes the game looks awful. Vertical trees slant sideways?

What's really stupid is the screenshots of the Shadowhawk are alllll taken on an angle and with the ridiculous FOV it only exagurates the difference. Like.. the person who took the photo is likely just trolling the community. These aren't a "hey hey, come stand beside the Shadowhawk" Like those disney land pictures you get with mickey mouse and stuff? This is a diliberate "stand beside the shadowhawk so we can do a comparison." But they take the picture at an angle. Yea. Right. GG. All this guessing and comparing is wasted time though. We're ganna know in a few days.

Anyways, here's it not at an angle. I still wouldn't even consider this even an acceptable piece that should be used for comparison unless you are taking it with a 15lb salt block. When the source images are so shoddy with ridiculous perspective angles like this, it makes it hard to draw an accurate conclusion on the intended size... and in the end, you're still left in wonder.


^
Edit: See that white corner in the bottom left? Yeah that's more than a 45 degree angle. That's how much I had to enlarge one side of the image just to correct the perspective. Terrible terrible pictures who ever took them. I'm assuming this is all NGNG's work. Those guys **** me off. With their interviews especially, and now these shoddy screencaps.


Edit: Here's a rough size corrected image of the image above..

Spoiler

Wow, nice work, and definitely falls more in line with the shadow tests and even the pics with the SHAD next to the Cicada and such.

Hans Von Lohman, on 13 October 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

This jives with my picture of the wall shadow on the hangar/warehouse door. The Shadow Hawk is as tall as the fins of a Centurion.

It is still pretty tall, though. It will be the size of a Trebuchet, and not the runt like a Hunchback is.

Exactly. While none are perfect, at least the ones from you and MoonUnitBeta strive to fix any perspective issues, instead of just fanning nonsense hysteria. If, as it looks, the SHAD is the height of the Centy´s fins it will be totally fine.

[Amsro]

Use the Shadowhawk from behind another mech shooting ballistics over the shoulder, can't hit the SH if you can't see the SH.

[oldradagast]

Bromineberry, on 12 October 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

There are size comparisons for all mechs:
Thunderbolt
Locust
Shadow Hawk
Battlemaster

- Locust seems fine
- Battlemaster seems fine
- Thunderbold is wider but less tall than a centurion, I like it, it looks very compact and brutal that way
- Shadow Hawk is taller than a Centurion
- Shadow Hawk is taller than a Cataphract! WTF?

The Shadow HAwk is WAY to big imho!

No surprise here. For some reason, they are simply unable to scale Medium mechs probably. I have no idea why... if your medium model ends up the same size or larger than a heavy or assault, make it smaller... Nothing quite like watching a Centurion stand next to a Victor and see that they are nearly the same size, yet the Victor (which is probably scaled) weighs 30 tons more... Oh, and picking the Centurion as the comparison for the Thunderbolt was just hilarious since it just highlights the problems with the Centurion even more.

Ugh... Were it not for the Centurion's damage reduction tricks, the only mediums that would see play would be the Hunchback and Blackjack (and maybe the Cicada) thanks to the horrible scaling issues.

[Bishop Steiner]

oldradagast, on 13 October 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

No surprise here. For some reason, they are simply unable to scale Medium mechs probably. I have no idea why... if your medium model ends up the same size or larger than a heavy or assault, make it smaller... Nothing quite like watching a Centurion stand next to a Victor and see that they are nearly the same size, yet the Victor (which is probably scaled) weighs 30 tons more... Oh, and picking the Centurion as the comparison for the Thunderbolt was just hilarious since it just highlights the problems with the Centurion even more.

Ugh... Were it not for the Centurion's damage reduction tricks, the only mediums that would see play would be the Hunchback and Blackjack (and maybe the Cicada) thanks to the horrible scaling issues.

and so it goes........


not really that tall after all.

[ShadowbaneX]

The Shadow Hawk did look a little too gangly in those screenshots. If you're right with that extrapolation there Bishop it'd make me feel a lot better. I guess we'll see about this time on Tuesday.

[Bishop Steiner]

ShadowbaneX, on 13 October 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

The Shadow Hawk did look a little too gangly in those screenshots. If you're right with that extrapolation there Bishop it'd make me feel a lot better. I guess we'll see about this time on Tuesday.

MoonUnit Beta´s extrapolation, actually. I wish I had the skills to do the maths. That said, I while I don´t think MUB or myself would say they are 100%, all the official shots had such horribad warpage that I knew the straight scales people kept trying to apply could not be accurate.

[oldradagast]

Um.... even if the Shadowhawk is "only" as big as a Centurion, the Centurion itself is still badly oversized for a medium mech. Remember - the only reason the Centurion sees play at all is thanks to the damage reduction tricks it can pull because of the layering of destroyed components. The Shadowhawk appears to be Centurion sized and probably lacks that oddball "feature" of the Centurion. If that's true, it won't be terribly useful in game, IMHO. Of course, given the warped perspective in most of these images, it's hard to say anything for certain, but past track record on medium mech scaling is not encouraging...

Edited by oldradagast, 13 October 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 October 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

Exactly. While none are perfect, at least the ones from you and MoonUnitBeta strive to fix any perspective issues, instead of just fanning nonsense hysteria. If, as it looks, the SHAD is the height of the Centy´s fins it will be totally fine.

It was always shown to be the height of a cent though.

[ShadowbaneX]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 October 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

MoonUnit Beta´s extrapolation, actually. I wish I had the skills to do the maths. That said, I while I don´t think MUB or myself would say they are 100%, all the official shots had such horribad warpage that I knew the straight scales people kept trying to apply could not be accurate.

Well, if MUB is correct then. You're right, many of those shots were pretty misleading.

oldradagast, on 13 October 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Um.... even if the Shadowhawk is "only" as big as a Centurion, the Centurion itself is still badly oversized for a medium mech. Remember - the only reason the Centurion sees play at all is thanks to the damage reduction tricks it can pull because of the layering of destroyed components. The Shadowhawk appears to be Centurion sized and probably lacks that oddball "feature" of the Centurion. If that's true, it won't be terribly useful in game, IMHO. Of course, given the warped perspective in most of these images, it's hard to say anything for certain, but past track record on medium mech scaling is not encouraging...

I can agree with this. I think it was in this thread, but it might have been in another, but I said that most mediums could use a 10-15% reduction in size. Right now they're just a little too big.

[Bishop Steiner]

oldradagast, on 13 October 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Um.... even if the Shadowhawk is "only" as big as a Centurion, the Centurion itself is still badly oversized for a medium mech. Remember - the only reason the Centurion sees play at all is thanks to the damage reduction tricks it can pull because of the layering of destroyed components. The Shadowhawk appears to be Centurion sized and probably lacks that oddball "feature" of the Centurion. If that's true, it won't be terribly useful in game, IMHO. Of course, given the warped perspective in most of these images, it's hard to say anything for certain, but past track record on medium mech scaling is not encouraging...

while I have always felt the Cent was too tall, I have actually found the Trebuchet and Kintaro and Quickraw, all oversized also to actually be rather tough. The Quickdraw is actually very effective if you know ho to use it, the Kintaro has become one of the deadliest Mediums since it´s CT was fixed and the Trebuchet is not driven more due to meh loadouts than the size killing it.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Not to mention that the Shawk is going to be a great hillhumper. That shoulder mounted ballistic means only the gun and head will be visible. No matter what the problems I will still pilot it - if i can survive in a Hunchie (although it is smaller) I'm sure T2D will be down to me rather than the mech. The Thud should be very surviveable tho'.