84 replies to this topic

[Defalus]

Lyrik, on 12 October 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

And another noob whining because he lacks the intelligence to proper scout and/or defend

Alone in a pug game.

[Defalus]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 12 October 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

Yet another whine by those who pilot fatties and want the game played their way.I never pilot light and have hardly ever capped, but have often done base defense.
Capping has been in since the beginning despite these threads appearing very week. ever thought that maybe the devs think it is working as intended?

1. Im piloting mediums ;
2. If working as intended would be the case they wouldn't have better rewards for winning by fighting.

[Defalus]

Cathy, on 12 October 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

death match..*yawns* the game for people with one dimetional tactics

The tactics are in fighting and how you do it. Its mechWARRIORS not McMarathonists.

[Farix]

Defalus, on 12 October 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

1. Im piloting mediums ;
2. If working as intended would be the case they wouldn't have better rewards for winning by fighting.

Residual issue left over when people were complaining about C-bill farmers. The fix is to petition for rewards to be added for base captures, not to change Assault into an entirely different game.

[Barantor]

Here is what I see happening in pugs with captures.

1. Early tap of the cap by a light so that it turns around the enemy team and splits them up (breaks up a defense).

Conclusion: Valid tactic.

2. Enemy is wiping up the main assault force of your team, you have no chance to defeat them but realize they all go under 80 kph. You go cap to try and eek a win.

Conclusion: Valid tactic and ****** off the enemy assaults.

3. Enemy outmaneuvers themselves and is stuck in a defensive position you can't crack, so mediums/lights go to cap to force them to move.

Conclusion: Valid tactic, helps move the game along.

4. Last 5 minutes of the match, stalemate or really close game, light goes to cap.

Conclusion: Valid tactic, but folks who get capped complain because they didn't do it first.


Now the only one I really have a problem with is if in #1 they just stay on the base instead of capping it. It doesn't usually give anyone a good reward for the time they spent readying up and getting into positions.

My proposal would be to allow the cap to go down to maybe 10% from completion, but if it is in the first five minutes of the game it cannot be completed. This allows those in slower mechs to close in and maybe do a little damage/spotting/etc before the capper ends the game. Not having any good reward for the amount of time spent in a game is lame and I think anyone can agree with that.

[Slepnir]

What I finds funny is that when community warfare starts winning the match I.E. capturing the planet/resource etc... will be far more important than just doing damage. so you better get used to it. Also a real mechwarrior knows that achieving mission goals without a huge repair bill or replacing ammo stores. will make his commander very happy. especially if he doesn't fire a shot and still achieves the objective...............................................additionally if your team fails to notice a lance of 4 stalkers sauntering over to your cap and taking it, then perhaps you need to rethink your strategy

Edited by Slepnir, 12 October 2013 - 05:20 AM.

[Lord Perversor]

Defalus, on 12 October 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

Having the enemy tin can capture an oil pump won't prevent me from coring his metal heart out.It is purely annoying and does not provide ANY benefits.

Why should stay unchanged.

1: to teach Battlefield awareness
2: punish Conga lines
3: punish derp Fatlases premades (ironically by derp light mech premades)
4: punish FAIL players.(with the current cap rate the enemy needs 3+ mechs for a cap rush if such thing happens check point 1)
5: punish idiotic behaviour (all of them going lower >>> your whole team ignores and heads upper)
6: punish Big mechs pilots and may force them to change some chasis(if the light cap annoys, then make a light hunter mech)


Just a few from the top of my head.

P.S: and no i'm not a base capper but i been playing longer than you to recognize the Rage from cap win comes from lack of proper battlefield mentality players.

[Kazairl]

My understanding is it is there to break stalemate. But it is too easy to abuse. Players like myself don't cap out of a sense of honour. Most players don't cap because killing mechs earns the team a lot more money. But there is always going to be a few that do it because it is an easy win.

[Barantor]

Slepnir, on 12 October 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

What I finds funny is that when community warfare starts winning the match I.E. capturing the planet/resource etc... will be far more important than just doing damage. so you better get used to it. Also a real mechwarrior knows that achieving mission goals without a huge repair bill or replacing ammo stores. will make his commander very happy. especially if he doesn't fire a shot and still achieves the objective...............................................additionally if your team fails to notice a lance of 4 stalkers sauntering over to your cap and taking it, then perhaps you need to rethink your strategy

It is going to be funny when someone caps with lights/mediums and wins planets and we end up seeing fewer assaults and faster less armed/armored heavies.

all win condition != blast team in a firing line

[Troutmonkey]

Best case would be to disable the capture of the base within the first 3 minutes of the game.
I don't want to spend two minutes searching for a game, 30 seconds waiting for the ready, and two minutes trudging up to the middle only to find "base under attack" and not even be able to get back in time.

Even when I play a light I usually don't have enough time to get back and defend if 3 or more lights attack early on, and my Jenner's / Cicada all go 130kph +

[Kazairl]

Barantor, on 12 October 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

It is going to be funny when someone caps with lights/mediums and wins planets and we end up seeing fewer assaults and faster less armed/armored heavies.

all win condition != blast team in a firing line

nah they are going to have proper battles for planetary control, surely...

That is a really scary thought: The idea that these arena battles are the ultimate form of the game.
"What if this is as good as it gets?" <shudder>

Edited by Kazairl, 12 October 2013 - 05:47 AM.

[Slepnir]

Kazairl, on 12 October 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

My understanding is it is there to break stalemate. But it is too easy to abuse. Players like myself don't cap out of a sense of honour. Most players don't cap because killing mechs earns the team a lot more money. But there is always going to be a few that do it because it is an easy win.

Its not an easy win if you pay attention and learn to defend your base

[Nehkrosis]

Assault.

Add Turrets (Dual MLas, Duel LRM5s, Duel AC/2s), give the Fuel Pump (or whatever) an Armour Value.


Destroy that to Win.


Fun Assault

[TB Freelancer]

To put it bluntly. The game type is simply beyond the mental capacity of some to play.

Preventing a cap from ever happening has never been that hard, but with the massive increases to cap times along with predictable player movements, stopping one in progress is pretty effortless too. Now days getting capped out means they willfully ignored all the warning signs that it would happen, positioned themselves so far from either base that they can't possibly defend theirs or take the the enemies and pretty much deserve the loss. With such long cap times it actually takes effort to lose to a cap.

Cathy, on 12 October 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

death match..*yawns* the game for people with one dimetional tactics

The thing is, the guys who want it can't even begin to comprehend what they are getting themselves into.

These guys only ever had one focus. Fighting. But the guys who beat them with caps routinely had four primary things in mind and acted as the situation dictated. They worried about their own base, the enemy base, the enemy team, and of course fighting.

With only fighting to worry about in TeamDeathMatch those guys who fought and capped as the situation dictated will eat the one dimensional thinkers alive every time.

Edited by TB Freelancer, 12 October 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[Kazairl]

Slepnir, on 12 October 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Its not an easy win if you pay attention and learn to defend your base

It is not a lack of skill or planning that leads to the loss of a base. It is the desire to have fun that leads to the loss of a base. Defending a base that may not get attacked is not how players like to spend their matches.

[Farix]

Troutmonkey, on 12 October 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

Best case would be to disable the capture of the base within the first 3 minutes of the game.
I don't want to spend two minutes searching for a game, 30 seconds waiting for the ready, and two minutes trudging up to the middle only to find "base under attack" and not even be able to get back in time.

Even when I play a light I usually don't have enough time to get back and defend if 3 or more lights attack early on, and my Jenner's / Cicada all go 130kph +

I strongly oppose the addition of a timer as it removes tactical depth from the mode. However, that doesn't mean that other improvements cannot be made. Here are my proposed changes to Assault, and please support my AtD question relating to the proposal.

[Purlana]

So sorry, did your 1000 ton team get capped?

[Barantor]

Nehkrosis, on 12 October 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Assault.

Add Turrets (Dual MLas, Duel LRM5s, Duel AC/2s), give the Fuel Pump (or whatever) an Armour Value.


Destroy that to Win.


Fun Assault

Raven with ECM tags oil rig.. I light it up with LRMs from 800m away...

Someone would still have to defend the base.

[Troutmonkey]

I just thought about a good mechanic that world of tanks uses.
Bascially when you attempt to capture their base, if you come under any fire and take damage, the timer resets to full.
As soon as you leave the capture square the timer will also reset to full.

That way if you can make it back at least within LOS of your base you can shoot the enemy, force them to move and thus stop you base from being capped. The base in Assualt mode is really meant only as an alternate win-con so you don't have to chase down that last spider. So if someone is left to fight and wants to, you have to fight them if you want to win.

[Jman5]

Defalus, on 12 October 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

Alone in a pug game.

All it takes is 1 person (you) to move or position yourself in a way that scouts the alternate path. On most maps you don't even have to move that far from the main group. If I can do it in my Atlas without getting myself over-extended and killed, you can do it with your mech. You check for a minute or two to see if a cap rush is coming. If nothing comes, then you rejoin the group. Congrats, you've successfully checked 99% of early game cap rushes. Besides, what the heck are you doing in the first minute anyway? Hiding behind a rock, while waiting for the enemy to pop out from behind their rock?

FUN!