66 replies to this topic

[Whatzituyah]

Let me give examples like the priority airstrike, the other one, and Mech bays. I mean seriously why pay real money just to have more mechs or an advantage? I would rather wait for a real MechWarrior game not MechWarrior online more like MechWarrior 5! I am not asking others too quit infact I don't want too quit I just think that atleast it could be less expensive.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 12 October 2013 - 12:18 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Whatzituyah, on 12 October 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Let me give examples like the priority airstrike, the other one, and Mech bays. I mean seriously why pay real money just to have more mechs or an advantage? I would rather wait for a real MechWarrior game not MechWarrior online more like MechWarrior 5! I am not asking others too quit infact I don't want too quit I just think that atleast it could be less expensive.

You can buy the upgrade for the airstrike (and artillery, and coolant) for GXP, at which point they are exactly like the MC versions. As such, no pay real money for an advantage. Also, artillery and airstrikes are objectively bad and a tremendous waste of module slots.

Mech bays? Not an advantage, you can be absolutely competitive (master mechs) with the 4 you have for free. With that said, mech bays are extremely cheap, and "character slots" are for pay in basically all free to play games.

In short, you don't need to pay anything to be on an even playing field with everyone else, and in fact you can't pay money for an advantage whatsoever.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Congratulations you broke my brain.

[Alaskan Nobody]

So THAT'S what he was talking about

Maybe I need to get my reading comprehension checked

[MadCat02]

Whatzituyah, on 12 October 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Let me give examples like the priority airstrike, the other one, and Mech bays. I mean seriously why pay real money just to have more mechs or an advantage? I would rather wait for a real MechWarrior game not MechWarrior online more like MechWarrior 5! I am not asking others too quit infact I don't want too quit I just think that atleast it could be less expensive.

shoot someone once and you already did more good than aiming airstrike . just saying

I do wish though that new players weren't fooled by triel mechs with awful setups that overheat shooting 2 medium lasers

[Wintersdark]

Shar Wolf, on 12 October 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

So THAT'S what he was talking about

Maybe I need to get my reading comprehension checked

At least, I read his post as "OMG P2W SUCKS". Maybe he meant something else entirely, and as such my response was totally useless, but I'm pretty sure it's a P2W post.

[LauLiao]

$1-$2 for mech bays is expensive? Or are you just mad Mom wouldn't let you have her credit card?

[Alaskan Nobody]

Lets see if my brilliantly literal mind can figure it out then

breaking it down...

"Reason for things" sounds like hes offering one
"that are technically needed" alright clear enough
"to have more mechs or win a battle faster?" sounds like a philosophy paper

title seems clear enough...

Whatzituyah, on 12 October 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Let me give examples like the priority airstrike, the other one, and Mech bays.

simply reiterates the title...

Whatzituyah, on 12 October 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

I mean seriously why pay real money just to have more mechs or an advantage?

and there we go - not looking for a reason but asking one

Big answer being that airstrikes and other consumables really are not that powerful (or so I am told, don't have the GXP yet to grab what is on the bottom of my list )

They are an 'advantage' in a sense but one that is outmatched by almost (if not any) weapon or other module in the game.
Plus, as already stated, you can get equivalent for CBills.

Edit:
Q) Is it sad that I had to type all that out to figure out what he was asking?
A) In a very real sense (more than the P2W nature of consumables anyways) it really is.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 12 October 2013 - 01:39 PM.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

UAV = MC Only?

[Kaijin]

Wintersdark, on 12 October 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

you can't pay money for an advantage whatsoever.

That's not entirely true. Some hero mechs, with their unique hardpoints, are advantaged over the other chassis' of that mech.

[Wintersdark]

Kaijin, on 12 October 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

That's not entirely true. Some hero mechs, with their unique hardpoints, are advantaged over the other chassis' of that mech.

which is irrelevant as there are other chassis that are simply better. Its not paying for an advantage, because you can elect to use another mech type and negate that advantage. Otherwise, I could claim that MWO is pay2win because (almost) every hero is better than my AWS-8V (ironically except the AWS-PB... Lol!)

That said, there are no hero mechs that are objectively the best of their chassis, and the couple that come close are definitely debatable. The Ilya is probably the most likely to be best of its variants, but the 3D is definitely comparable.

The Flame? Arguably best, but a Dragon.

The Misery? Just different, definitely not objectively the best Stalker.



As an aside.... For clarity in your posts, please use "variants" where you used chassis. Chassis is used, in battletech, to refer to the overall mech type, variant for the particular model.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

M4NTiC0R3X, on 12 October 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

UAV = MC Only?

Um.

No. No it isn't. Check the list in the mechlab again, friend!

[Kaosity]

Wintersdark, on 12 October 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

In short, you don't need to pay anything to be on an even playing field with everyone else, and in fact you can't pay money for an advantage whatsoever.

Not true.

There are a number of mechs that can only be obtained with real $$ and not built from in house "free monoply money". For example: the Goldenboy or the Firebrand. These are just 2 of many, the primary difference being in the available loadouts. These mechs cannot be built starting from other variants. It doesn't matter which way the mechs are biased, be they better or worse than the available freebies. That's a matter of personal opinion and pilot strength. But the bottom line is that it is not "an even playing field" between people that use real $$ and those who do not..

Being new here I could be wrong, and if so I apologize in advance.

[Lukoi Banacek]

WhenReaperComes, on 12 October 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Not true.

There are a number of mechs that can only be obtained with real $$ and not built from in house "free monoply money". For example: the Goldenboy or the Firebrand.

P2W means that something is objectively better and is only gotten through real money. You are correct that those Mechs cannot be bought any other way and that most cannot be replicated with c-bill variants.

The overwhelming flaw in your premise is that different variants (aka the Hero ones) are in anyway superior to their C-bill counterparts and therefore P2W.

The consensus generally speaking, is the total opposite of that in almost all cases. That you'd pick the GB or the FB as examples, is actually kind of funny. I mean, funny as in not even in the ballpark of what *might* be considered a Mech that comes close to blurring the lines.

WhenReaperComes, on 12 October 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

But the bottom line is that it is not "an even playing field" between people that use real $$ and those who do not..

I don't think you understand what an even playing field is, by definition, if you are under this impression.

[Whatzituyah]

WhenReaperComes, on 12 October 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Not true.

There are a number of mechs that can only be obtained with real $$ and not built from in house "free monoply money". For example: the Goldenboy or the Firebrand. These are just 2 of many, the primary difference being in the available loadouts. These mechs cannot be built starting from other variants. It doesn't matter which way the mechs are biased, be they better or worse than the available freebies. That's a matter of personal opinion and pilot strength. But the bottom line is that it is not "an even playing field" between people that use real $$ and those who do not..

Being new here I could be wrong, and if so I apologize in advance.

He is right you know technically speaking that does give people an advantage over others if they are using hero mechs for battle. By the way is Jagermech I recognize from MechWarrior 2 in this game? I kind of remember it using all machine guns.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 12 October 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

WhenReaperComes, on 12 October 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Not true.

There are a number of mechs that can only be obtained with real $$ and not built from in house "free monoply money". For example: the Goldenboy or the Firebrand. These are just 2 of many, the primary difference being in the available loadouts. These mechs cannot be built starting from other variants. It doesn't matter which way the mechs are biased, be they better or worse than the available freebies. That's a matter of personal opinion and pilot strength. But the bottom line is that it is not "an even playing field" between people that use real $$ and those who do not..

Being new here I could be wrong, and if so I apologize in advance.

Here is an example for you:

The only advantage the Firebrand really gives over another Jager is the arm mounted energy hardpoints - however since all cataphracts have to my knowledge equally high mounted energy weapons, and need to expose less of themselves to pop over a hill with them, and the other Jagers offer more ballistic/missile slots in the arms, the Firebrand is considered comparably weak for what it offers

Golden boy... not sure what he has that is unique, but I know he is slower than all of the other Kintaro.

As for the hero's I am familiar with... (ie, own and play)

Yenlo: only centurion to mount an AC20 - but a Hunchback does that just as well if not better.
It gives up all missile weapons making it the weakest 'zombie' - which is arguably the centurion's biggest strength.

Death's Knell: only commando with 4E hardpoints - putting it more in direct competition with Jenners than the other commandos - and it does not fare well. (saying that, I like my Deathsnail XD )

Ilya Muromets - 3B hardpoints, the only Cataphract that can mount more than 2 heavy balistic weapons (UAC5, AC10 etc) but Jagers generally do it better last I checked (I run 2 LBAC10 on mine, and 2large lasers)

Firebrand: I covered above.
-to add to that though if you like the old Rifleman, you can duplicate that loadout on the FB - but it is hardly the strongest loadout for it there is by a fair margin.

Each Hero offers something unique - yes - but they are hardly stronger in a general sense than any of the mechs they would be competing against.

I see Hero mechs more as a 'reduce the grind with the Cbill bonus for a mech chassis you like' type thing than much of anything else.

Whatzituyah, on 12 October 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

He is right you know technically speaking that does give people an advantage over others if they are using hero mechs for battle. By the way is Jagermech I recognize from MechWarrior 2 in this game? I kind of remember it using all machine guns.

The Jagermech wasn't in Mech2 (though it may have been in Mech2:mercs I didn't play that) Rifleman IIC was, the Jager is the Rifleman's lawyer friendly cousin though, with the Rifleman being one of the unseen and all.
If you want to know more about the unseen... I am not the one to ask, as it gets somewhat complicated, and most sources contradict eachother.
Suffice it to say, there were copyright issues with the original mech designs, and we are unlikely to actually see a Rifleman any time soon (unlikely but possible, all the Pheonix Mechs were unseen to )

[Wintersdark]

Whatzituyah, on 12 October 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

He is right you know technically speaking that does give people an advantage over others if they are using hero mechs for battle. By the way is Jagermech I recognize from MechWarrior 2 in this game? I kind of remember it using all machine guns.

It doesn't give players an advantage in battle because Hero mechs are absolutely not superior to c-bill mechs. Hero mechs allow some different loadouts, but generally speaking nothing you couldn't get with another mech.

The reason people buy Hero mechs is that they grant a c-bill bonus after battle (30%) thus allowing you to progress faster - this isn't an advantage, as cbill progress doesn't increase your strength in battle, just allows you to have a bigger selection of toys to choose from for a given battle.

Also, of course, they look cool - subjectively speaking.

WhenReaperComes, on 12 October 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Not true.

There are a number of mechs that can only be obtained with real $$ and not built from in house "free monoply money". For example: the Goldenboy or the Firebrand. These are just 2 of many, the primary difference being in the available loadouts. These mechs cannot be built starting from other variants. It doesn't matter which way the mechs are biased, be they better or worse than the available freebies. That's a matter of personal opinion and pilot strength. But the bottom line is that it is not "an even playing field" between people that use real $$ and those who do not..

Being new here I could be wrong, and if so I apologize in advance.

The Hero mechs are different, but not better. As such, it is not "pay to win", and does not give the Hero mech pilot an advantage in battle they couldn't achieve with some other mech.


In MWO, money allows you to progress faster, it does not make you better in battle.

MWO's "For Pay" content is fairly expensive, but their avoidance of Pay To Win is exceptional in the Free To Play industry. Very, very few games can make the same claim.

[Wintersdark]

I'd like to say, I'm pushing this just to be clear, because a lot of new players don't understand how it works here in MWO. I've been playing since the start of Open Beta back late 2012. I've no vested interest in covering up a Pay To Win Conspiracy, and just want new players to understand what's going on.

I see a lot of new players assuming Hero Mechs are "Premium Mechs" in the way "Premium" products work in many F2P games - that is, that they are better.

They're not. In fact, most are actually poorer variants, and all sport equal or fewer hardpoints than c-bill variants. Some offer loadout types that cbill variants do not - such as the Misery, which is a Stalker sporting a Ballistic hardpoint - but even there, that basically just gets you what you could be doing with a Victor, Highlander or similar mech.

It's important for you to understand this, both for your happiness playing and for your wallet. There's no need to fret about hero mechs on the field being P2W, and you know if you go shopping for a Hero Mech not to expect something better in combat, but rather just something that will look badass and help you earn cbills faster.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Wintersdark, on 12 October 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

and help you earn cbills faster.

And even then only if you perform decently with it - I earn at least as many Cbills per match with my Commando2-D as with the TDK.
I usually earn more, and that is counting the Cbill bonus the TDK gets.

(Man 'the TDK' awkward.... the The Death's Knell.... but just TDK doesnt really work, and you say the DK and people think your talkin bout a mario game >.< )

[Wintersdark]

Shar Wolf, on 12 October 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

And even then only if you perform decently with it - I earn at least as many Cbills per match with my Commando2-D as with the TDK.
I usually earn more, and that is counting the Cbill bonus the TDK gets.

(Man 'the TDK' awkward.... the The Death's Knell.... but just TDK doesnt really work, and you say the DK and people think your talkin bout a mario game >.< )

Indeed. Being a percentage increase, you need to be doing well enough to be making enough for that 30% to make any noticable difference.

Incidentally, this is why the Heavy and particularly Assault hero mechs tended to be better earners. Things are better now, but for a long time c-bill rewards where heavily based on damage done - and it's just easier to get high damage done numbers with Heavies and Assaults.

This is less so the case now. Other things contribute more to cbill earnings than they did, but it's still a factor.

I'm really hoping the TDK gets a higher max engine limit - a couple lighter lights are getting the Locust treatment, with max engines putting their speed up to 170kph max. TDK would be a good candidate for that as well as the Locust, as really, a 4E 25 Ton Light doesn't scare anyone when it's the same speed as the 6E Jenner with more tonnage for heat sinks and the same top speed.