132 replies to this topic

[Throe]

Bhael Fire, on 22 October 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Elo was designed to work best with individual players.

Wrong. Elo rankings work fine with individuals(like in Chess) OR static teams(like in the NFL). The problem occurs when the team is composed of a random group of players every game.

[Bhael Fire]

Throet, on 31 October 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

The problem occurs when the team is composed of a random group of players every game.

Which is exactly what this game has...and is exactly what I pointed out, if you bothered to follow my meaning.

Which is exactly why I said Elo would work best with solo players in this game.

I'm looking forward to Deathmatch (Skirmish mode)...which will feature 1v1 "duel" mode.

As for this thread, I'm still not sure why so many proponents for grouped play are so deathly afraid of allowing solo players to have their own queue. I think it would alleviate a lot of concerns that prompt these types of threads

[Throe]

Except there is not, and has never been 1 vs 1 in this game. So what are you getting at?

[Bhael Fire]

Throet, on 31 October 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Except there is not, and has never been 1 vs 1 in this game. So what are you getting at?

Skirmish mode (aka Deathmatch and Team Deathmatch)...is being tested internally and is coming soon.

It will allow 1v1 matches.

[Throe]

Ok. So Elo *will* work well for solo match ups. That does nothing to improve the problem of Elo being used for PUG match making. Also, because of the dynamism of teamwork, solo Elo ratings can't be carried directly over to the PUG match maker either. It's not a solution, it's just a totally separate and distinct game mode.

[Novakaine]

Soldier up and Enlist.
nuff said.
Oh and bring back 8 man.

Edited by Novakaine, 31 October 2013 - 02:14 PM.

[MerryIguana]

WarHippy, on 31 October 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

By the way life, nor war are fair so it is probably for the best if you just suck it up.

Truly inspirational.  To some of you this GAME may be life,  but try to keep that a secret k.

Edited by MerryIguana, 31 October 2013 - 02:16 PM.

[Grey Death Storm]

Kunae, on 31 October 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

No, I made no mention of your spelling, nor your lack of proper punctuation(Other than your misuse of the word "Cue"). Your message is virtually unintelligible.

Your attempts at misdirection, and claims that you are not being understood, are silly. We've distilled what you are trying to QQ about, and dismissed it as irrational. You continuing to blather on and on about this whiney topic won't change that.

Really is this your Line "You have no clue. You are hyper and argumentative, and you take umbrage when people don't agree with what (you poorly communicate)."

Im a hyper and argumentative, and you take umbrage have you read your own posts !!!

"Your message is virtually unintelligible." reading your suggest there no real point in bothering to argue with it (virtually unintelligible) in the event of another pointless comment coming from you.

Can I ask is "unintelligible" a word ?

Edited by Death Storm, 31 October 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

Throet, on 31 October 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Ok. So Elo *will* work well for solo match ups. That does nothing to improve the problem of Elo being used for PUG match making. Also, because of the dynamism of teamwork, solo Elo ratings can't be carried directly over to the PUG match maker either. It's not a solution, it's just a totally separate and distinct game mode.

I think you misunderstand my meaning. Elo works best in a randomly matched game like MWO when individual un-grouped players ("solo players") are matched against other individual un-grouped players, whether it's 1v1 or 12v12.

That said, I have no issues with grouped players...I play in groups every once and while. I just think that solo (i.e. un-grouped) players that want to play with other solo (i.e., un-grouped) players should have their own queue. It would produce more accurately balanced matches, which ends up being more fun for players.

Mind you, when I say balanced, I don't mean perfect. You can never account for all the variables, but at least the matches would not be grossly/obscenely mismatched like they often are now for many players....which end up causing some players to blame the "evil premades" in threads like this.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 31 October 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[Grey Death Storm]

Roadbeer, on 31 October 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Technically, No.

You are on a PRIVATE forum and are PERMITTED to express your opinion on it, something that CAN be revoked with or without cause.

Inversely, others are PERMITTED to tell you that your opinion is wrong.

That's the problem with Forumites, they ASSUME that their #1A Rights (which, correct me if I'm wrong, Canada does not necessarily have), extend to a Private Company's property.

IH I'm not in Canada in my country we have DATA PROTECTION ACT which states we have freedom of Speech so technically you are wrong. and that whole point of forums to express your opinion s, so i don't know where you are coming from.

[jper4]

Syllogy, on 23 October 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

MWO PUG Rule #1: If my team wins it's because I'm awesome; if my team loses it's because the other team has premades.

Pro Tip: In most cases, there is no reliable way to tell which team has premades and which team doesn't.

you forgot rule 1.1- the other team may not have premades but the rest of my team are ***** noobs which is the only reason why one as awesome as myself could have possibly lost a match as it is 1 vs 23 against me.

also i find it odd that prematch you can fairly often find premades scattered among the three lances (basing it on teams with house affiliations). then aftere the match suddenly all those "scattered" house players are now all part of one lance where if they popped up that way at the start at least we'd have an idea there was a probably premade afoot.

and yes i've found premades rarely announce themselves in groups so the PUGs could you know, use them for the core of the group as we move to the fight and maybe work together to some degree with them.

[Roadbeer]

Death Storm, on 31 October 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

IH I'm not in Canada in my country we have DATA PROTECTION ACT which states we have freedom of Speech so technically you are wrong. and that whole point of forums to express your opinion s, so i don't know where you are coming from.

Completely wrong, but thanks for playing.

[Grey Death Storm]

Roadbeer, on 31 October 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

Completely wrong, but thanks for playing.

Read the Data protection act your wrong

[Roadbeer]

Ok, first of all, I'm assuming that you're in the UK to invoke that, and if that's the case, all it does is protect your privacy in the UK and by extension the EU, it does not extend your rights outside of the principle country, or the EU.

Second of all, personal 'rights' do not extend to someone else's private property... ANYWHERE. You are not allowed to stand on my front porch and shout any tripe you feel like. This forum is the PRIVATE PROPERTY of PGI, ergo (Latin) your freedom of speech does not extend there.

Third, if your 'rights' are not recognized by the sovereignty of the nation that the server is hosted in, you're SoL.

So, as I say again, you're completely wrong.

[Bhael Fire]

Tanar, on 31 October 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

also i find it odd that prematch you can fairly often find premades scattered among the three lances (basing it on teams with house affiliations). then aftere the match suddenly all those "scattered" house players are now all part of one lance where if

I see PUGs getting "organized" by faction all the time so that's not a reliable way to tell if someone is in a PUG or a premade.

In fact, when I drop with a group, we're often with different factions.

I think that PGI has been running live tests on the player base, trying to get metrics on how certain factions perform when they are teamed up with each other so they can get a better idea of how CW will work with Elo when it's introduced.

[Bhael Fire]

Roadbeer, on 31 October 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Second of all, personal 'rights' do not extend to someone else's private property... ANYWHERE. You are not allowed to stand on my front porch and shout any tripe you feel like. This forum is the PRIVATE PROPERTY of PGI, ergo (Latin) your freedom of speech does not extend there.

This is correct.

This forum is private property and can be moderated in any way PGI and/or IGP sees fit. You basically agree to their terms of use when you registered an account here.

[jper4]

i just meant i'd see say 2 davion in alpha, one in beta, one on charlie. then end of the match they're all in alpha and usually the biggest clump of players left standing. of course no one says anything if they are or not but taking the results plus the grouping that seems to me more likely to be a premade than random pugs of the same faction that suddenly gets lumped togther at the end of match screen.

i;ve also dropped in mixed groups of LW and factioned folk but those are tougher to tell one way or the other just by looking if they;re together or not.

dunno what PGI thinks it could find though if they;re taking 4 random PUGs that happen to have the same faction as any sort of tool to figure out a faction groups performance if they;re not actually part of the same group.

[Roadbeer]

Tanar, on 31 October 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

i just meant i'd see say 2 davion in alpha, one in beta, one on charlie. then end of the match they're all in alpha and usually the biggest clump of players left standing. of course no one says anything if they are or not but taking the results plus the grouping that seems to me more likely to be a premade than random pugs of the same faction that suddenly gets lumped togther at the end of match screen.

i;ve also dropped in mixed groups of LW and factioned folk but those are tougher to tell one way or the other just by looking if they;re together or not.

dunno what PGI thinks it could find though if they;re taking 4 random PUGs that happen to have the same faction as any sort of tool to figure out a faction groups performance if they;re not actually part of the same group.

Ok, I see where your confusion is coming from.

On the prematch and in game screens, the OP4 isn't grouped the way that it is actually set up. Those "Scattered" Davion's are actually probably all in Lance Alpha. It's at the end of the match, that you're actually able to see how the OP4 was grouped.

[Texas Merc]

Step away 'Beer he will be with us soon^tm .

[jper4]

Roadbeer, on 31 October 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Ok, I see where your confusion is coming from.

On the prematch and in game screens, the OP4 isn't grouped the way that it is actually set up. Those "Scattered" Davion's are actually probably all in Lance Alpha. It's at the end of the match, that you're actually able to see how the OP4 was grouped.

that's what i mean. prematch screen i look at it and think there's maybe a duo (first 2 davs in alpha) with possibly a LW tagging along so figure it's going to be PUG vs PUG. then match ends, our side gets squished and i'm wondering there that davion premade came from. always thought it odd that it never seemed to show up that way at the start or why the two screens display differently. now i'm i just figuring if i see 4 of a faction on either team they;re probably together.