1250 replies to this topic

[blackcatf]

[MagResPolarBear]

Man, I'm away for a week and everything suddenly turns somber and serious. Wasn't aware I was that much of a joker...

[LoPanShui]

So, how about them Commandos, huh?

[MagResPolarBear]

I'd still rather have a Cicada 3M on my team...

[ruagoof2]

And why is it that comandos don't have a jump jet version? I miss my jump jets when I pilot them....

[blackcatf]

This may have been covered already, but jump jets are for closers.

[LoPanShui]

No Commandos have ever had jump jets. It's why a 25 tonner can pack such a hefty missile payload.

[blackcatf]

MagResPolarBear, on 26 May 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

I'd still rather have a Cicada 3M on my team...

Or Raven or Spider

LoPanShui, on 27 May 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

No Commandos have ever had jump jets. It's why a 25 tonner can pack such a hefty missile payload.

Can you say Javelin? I know, it's 30 tons, but I think the point is valid anyway.

[MagResPolarBear]

Much as I enjoy poking fun at LoPan's 'Mech prejudices, a 25 T to 30 T jump is a 20 % difference in weight. Keeping all else the same, I believe that'll get you 10 jump jets for a light 'Mech.

[blackcatf]

Yeah, to be fair, having seen what he can do in a Locust, it's hard to mount any compelling argument against any size of 'mech that he might decide to pilot. However, in the interest of keeping this conversation going, I shall try...

[pushes up glasses]


Keeping the movement speed the same (instead of the engine rating), I end up with exactly 3 tons free for jump jets when I change the Commando from 25 to 30 tons. Don't forget that for every 5 tons, the internal structure gains ½ a ton of weight automatically, too. So the larger engine (to keep speed the same) weighs 1.5 tons more.

Playing around in HeavyMetal Pro, I found two simple ways to get a 30 ton 'mech with the COM-2A's loadout. The first was to do what I just said, bump the tonnage of the 25 tonner to 30 and add jump jets. The second was to drop 1 SRM-6 from the Javelin's load-out and replace it with an SRM-4 and a medium laser. The only difference between the two was the armor distribution. In most cases, I think I'd take the heavier light and give up something on the heavier end if I had a total weight limit (i.e. I could make due with an Orion instead of an Awesome or a Blackjack in place of a Hunchback if I needed to).

[LoPanShui]

Ahem.

The Javelin is also a Davion 'Mech while the Commando is a Lyran 'Mech, meaning that, for a good portion of the Succession Wars the Javelin was completely unavailable to the Lyrans. But, that's neither here nor there. You see, what you want to be talking about is C-Bill Cost.

You see, the Javelin is 2.4 million C-Bills to the Commando's 1.8. By increasing the weight of the Commando by 20% you're increasing the cost by 25%. Never forget that your Battlemech was made by the lowest bidder. You see, when it comes to light 'Mechs the Lyrans, god bless their souls, have always taken the philosophy that more is more. The more you can field the more you can afford to lose, and with only 75% of the cost of a larger 'Mech there's more money to spend on important matters.

You see, for every 16 Commandos you bought instead of Javelins you saved yourself enough money to purchase an Atlas, and isn't that what an argument about Steiner 'Mechs really all boils down to? How do you field more Atlases? With Commandos, that's how.

Edited by LoPanShui, 28 May 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[ruagoof2]

Never say never....

LoPanShui, on 27 May 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

No Commandos have ever had jump jets.

COM-7B Following the conquest of Coventry by the Word of Blake, the Jihadists modified the 7S to meet their specifications. The 7B keeps one ER Medium Laser in the left arm, but adds two Flamers to it, making the 7B a lethal threat to unarmored infantry. A small cockpit makes room for two SRM-4s, which are still fed by a CASE-protected ammunition bin. The weight savings enabled engineers to add enough jump jets to rocket the Commando up to one hundred-twenty meters at a time. They also added an additional ton of armor.^[6] BV (2.0) = 602^[17]

COM-7S2 Commando Freyr The personal 'Mech of ex-Arcturan Guards member-turned-treacherous Hunter's Paradise guide [color="#ba0000"]Zvi Freyr[/color], his Commando has been extensively modified with both Clan and experimental technologies. Retaining only the Endo Steel chassis and CASE of his formerly stock COM-5S model, Freyr has replaced the standard weapons with lighter Clan-tech systems, including two Streak SRM-4 launchers in its right arm with a single ton of reloads and a pair of ER Medium Lasers mounted in the left arm. The use of a Small Cockpit and a salvaged Clan extra-light engine save enough weight to switch to double strength heat sinks, as well as carry six jump jets and seven tons of Hardened Armor. BV (2.0) = 1,155^[19]

P.S. Thanks for the spell correction...

Edited by ruagoof2, 28 May 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[LoPanShui]

Blakists don't count. Those mofos be crazy. They made LAMs, 4 Legged Mechs, Super Heavies and Commandos with jump jets. Cray. Just cray.

[MagResPolarBear]

According to sarna.net, the Omega has a rumble seat. That's just adorable.

[blackcatf]

I remember when the fluff said that all 'mechs came with a jump seat. I'm going to have to go back through the rulebooks and see when/if that changed.

[LoPanShui]

It's in the 'Mech Quirks now, like how the Quickdraw has unprotected actuators.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

*friendly bumb*

Just want to let you guys know, that the Video from the opening post is not accessible from germany thanks to failed Youtube/GEMA negotiations about the copyright for the music used in the video.
Dunno if someone has pointed it out before 'cuz i didn't want to dig through 32 pages.

[blackcatf]

Yeah. That I could find, the extra seat's not mentioned in:

• The Classic Battletech Master Rules printed in 2005
  
• The BattleMech Technology page at: http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=197
  
• The Sarna.net wiki Cockpit article: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cockpit
  
• The 4th Edition Rulebook from 1995.
  
• Maximum Tech (1999)
  
• Total Warfare (2006)
  
• Many, many more that I'm not going to list

I did find something in the Classic BattleTech Companion (WizKids, 2003) that hinted at the ability of 'mech cockpits to carry passengers:

Quote

Clan cockpits tend to be much narrower than those of Inner Sphere 'Mechs, limiting space for additional passengers. Many contemporary Inner Sphere MechWarriors see these spartan layouts as too confining, but they do embody the Clan view of warfare.

On a side note, I've never been more thankful that the full version of Adobe Acrobat includes an OCR tool, but I'm still looking through the old manuals because I'm pretty sure I've seen it more clearly spelled out. Maybe it was one or more of the novels.

LOADED, on 30 May 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

*friendly bumb*

Just want to let you guys know, that the Video from the opening post is not accessible from germany thanks to failed Youtube/GEMA negotiations about the copyright for the music used in the video.
Dunno if someone has pointed it out before 'cuz i didn't want to dig through 32 pages.

Thanks, LOADED...nobody's pointed that out yet. Sorry you couldn't see it, it's quite lovely.

[LoPanShui]

Congrats to House of Lords on winning the tournament!

[blackcatf]

I'm gonna have to watch that match.