330 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

Spyder228, on 31 October 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

Treat the problem, not the symptom.

How do you fix the problem?

[Spyder228]

Heffay, on 31 October 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

How do you fix the problem?

How should I know? I'm no game designer. Inflating a hitbox because where you're shooting isn't where the server thinks you're shooting isn't the answer though.

[NuclearPanda]

Spyder228, on 31 October 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

How should I know? I'm no game designer. Inflating a hitbox because where you're shooting isn't where the server thinks you're shooting isn't the answer though.

Correct. Inflating hitboxes is not the answer. Correcting HIT DETECTION is however (and yes, this applies to friggin' SRMs at the moment and for the past 6 months or so)

[Sharp Spikes]

Paul Inouye said:

I will update you all on any progress on a Mech-by-Mech basis as they are fixed/changed PRIOR (yes.. big promise) to it going live so you'll know what's coming down the pipe.

It is good, but it would be 3 times as good if you not only let us know "what's coming down the pipe" before it hits us, but also take our feedback on it into consideration.

Deathlike, on 30 October 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

All I can say is, start with the Awesome...

Then we will know you're serious.

I think it won't be enough to just change size and placement of hitboxes to turn AWF back to AWS it should be. It is required to rework the model itself, namely reduce CT width by ~30% and make it less protruding forward (and raise engine cap to at least 350).

[Ridersofdoom]

make the game from the beginning and call Fasa.

[Heffay]

Spyder228, on 31 October 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

How should I know? I'm no game designer. Inflating a hitbox because where you're shooting isn't where the server thinks you're shooting isn't the answer though.

Ok, so you don't even care if it's feasible? Just "make it happen"?

[Spyder228]

Heffay, on 31 October 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Ok, so you don't even care if it's feasible? Just "make it happen"?

They've made hitreg corrections before so I'm reasonably sure it's feasible. Please tell me in great technical detail how YOU would fix the hitreg issues.

[Darklord]

Ridersofdoom, on 31 October 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

make the game from the beginning and call Fasa.

FASA is closed

[Heffay]

Spyder228, on 31 October 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

They've made hitreg corrections before so I'm reasonably sure it's feasible. Please tell me in great technical detail how YOU would fix the hitreg issues.

It may not be possible to fix without dramatically changing the minimum computer requirements for the game. I would first determine if that was the case, because if it becomes too computationally complex, I would use other methods to simulate it instead.

Maybe it will be by tweaking the hit box sizes so that gameplay is fun and engaging. Doesn't always have to be hit detection that needs to be "fixed".

[Evengar Dragonis]

Please check with CT cataphracts all models from September after the patch HSR CT strange works like became wider.

[JohnnyWayne]

Well it's not just the hitboxes... Something seems odd. I saw it my self on my mechs, the mechs of others: Instantanously losing a limb or getting cored without being hit by anything, or weapons do so much damage in a second that a mech wents from yellow external to crit red internal.

Don't know, HSR issue or Paperdoll not updating, but there hase something to be done too.

I hope Awesome and Orion hitboxes get first fixed, they need it most.

[Dawnstealer]

MonkeyCheese, on 30 October 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Had my 5k and 5d mastered eons before this crazy hit detection thing, and who knows I might just go back to playing them once this "easy mode" phase is over, if I ever get anywhere with my locust grinding...

also @ PGI I am all for that Awesome hitbox tweak suggestion that has been going around that would make the arms better shields, could make me look into rebuying my mastered 8T aws to join my 9m in the mechbay.

Same here - I must have been playing them before the HSR problem existed, because those things were just as fragile as you'd expect them to be. Granted, I haven't piloted them since, and Spiders DO seem way tougher. I was just writing that up to those guys being better Spider pilots than I was, but it does seem like they take more Streak shots than an Atlas...

Edited by Dawnstealer, 31 October 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Cimarb]

GreyGhost, on 30 October 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Hunchback!

I used to love the hunch, but you don't see them much anymore. And the reason why is because it's too easy to loose your hunch. The Hunch, (my friends tell me) is suppose to use CT armor, not side torso armor. That said, even with CT armor, do something so the hunch isn't ripped off so easy. Maybe give it some kind of extra ghost armor as a chassis quirk? You mentioned in other places making certain mechs have certain quirks, and giving the hunch some sort of ghost armor on the hunch itself (and nowhere else) would be a good quirk for that chassis.

Maybe NOT give said quirk on the 4sp, since it's a dual missle mini hunch thing.

What you might want to do is make the hunch a whole extra segment, since I knwo the timberwolf is coming, and we really, really want you to make it so you can shoot off the ears without losing a whole side torso. Being ready so the timberwolf doesn't suck in hit boxes is something many many of us really really want you to do.

The Catapult is built the same basic way as a Timberwolf, but the missile boxes are arms, and there aren't many people complaining about it on catapults. The Timberwolf could have the missile boxes also be part of the arms, but that may make disabling them a bit too easy, as those would be huge arm hitboxes. I'm not sure if you are talking about it this way: they could take some of the armor from the current arm and side torso and put it in a separate hit box for that side, but it should still come from the same total armor count, right? I definitely don't think it should be some ghost armor - they already have enough half-brained "ghost" systems as is...

Dirus Nigh, on 30 October 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Exactly. This is some thing Ive seen in the game sense I started playing. When you take out an arm or side torso damage transfers to the next component if you hit that location again. Essentially it is doubling the area of the next component. Yes, TT had damage transfer in this manner, however I strongly urge PGI to reevaluate damage transfer. When a component is destroyed it should be taken out completely. If I take out the leg or arm of a mech by doing more damage than needed it should not transfer to another area. If I hit a mech in the knee with an AC20 it should not damage the torso.

I understand that PGI will have to rework the models of the mechs in order to do this, but I think it will be worth it. By making damage non transferable, and removing damaged components completely PGI will be prolonging the life of a mech in a more dynamic way.

I agree that the destroyed portions of mechs should be removed to a higher degree than they currently are, especially legs (I have to look at the paper doll to even tell which leg is destroyed...) but the damage transfer is very important until they have the ability to totally remove the destroyed section. Damage transfer is only 50% of the damage, making it important to still try to hit the correct area, but you can't remove damage transfer completely unless you want a mech to completely ignore damage from the destroyed side. If my left arm and torso are destroyed, do you want me immune to all damage from the left side? Of course not.

cdrolly, on 30 October 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

Seriously your an didiot! They are slugs and plasma their sole purpose is pinpoint damage... They will never be changed because that's how they were designed. Hey why not have LRMS just fire randomly in a 360 arc while your at it... seriously.

I'm sorry you feel I'm a didiot, but I don't agree at all. Autocannons, in all canon sources, are automatic cannons, shooting a stream of bullets like a MG, except for very special versions that are made to fire them all as a slug, but only a very limited amount of times. I will find the thread were there was a very good write up about this and post it here shortly. PPCs are large bursts of energy, not pinpoint lasers, and when have you ever saw (or even read in fiction) where a burst of energy hits a target and doesn't splatter?

Edit: here's the auto cannon link by Koniving - you really should read it before calling anyone else a didiot: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2787929

Edited by Cimarb, 31 October 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[SgtMagor]

thx for the update Paul.

[Mikros04]

Thanks for the taking the time to do this right.

For me the biggest issues with hitboxes are the spider and the awesome. I think proof of problem for each mech is in how many/few of them I see in the game. There are way too many spiders now, and have always been way too few awesomes.

To me there is also proof that HSR isn't really the problem when it comes to hit detection with spiders. When I hit a Locust, I can see the damage happening pretty much like I'd expect. But with spiders more often for me than with any other mech, I see my rounds hit and will have the hit not register nor cause any damage flashing on the spiders paper doll. It is pretty annoying to make a good shot, see the round explode on the target but do nothing at all to it.

For the awesome though, I haven't really noticed any problems with the hitbox or with hit detection, I think the problem is with mech's geometry. If PGI wants players to use the awesome more than they currently do, then make the torso/side torsos a little smaller, or make the profile a little thinner to make it a little easier to protect with the arms.

To a lesser extent I think there issues with the Centurion, it feels like it takes more hits than it should to blow them up

[TheStrider]

Thanks for the heads up. Good to hear something is happening.

Does this pass include a look at SRM hit registry? (Pretty please!?)

[WANTED]

Check the Spider Paul. I usually think people are full of it on here but after piloting my Spider other night and shutting down from heat over and over ( I was running ER PPC and firing it too much ) I was amazed at how many times I shutdown and was fired upon at close range by at least 2 heavies. They did really nothing to me. Happened numerous times ( ping was 40 ms ). Compared to other lights I pilots, I felt like I was robbing those poor guys a kill. It really is suspicious. Other times I have been hit and instantly dead, so not sure if hit boxes or not but please check.

[KableGuy]

GreyGhost, on 30 October 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Hunchback!

I used to love the hunch, but you don't see them much anymore. And the reason why is because it's too easy to loose your hunch. The Hunch, (my friends tell me) is suppose to use CT armor, not side torso armor. That said, even with CT armor, do something so the hunch isn't ripped off so easy. Maybe give it some kind of extra ghost armor as a chassis quirk? You mentioned in other places making certain mechs have certain quirks, and giving the hunch some sort of ghost armor on the hunch itself (and nowhere else) would be a good quirk for that chassis.

Maybe NOT give said quirk on the 4sp, since it's a dual missle mini hunch thing.

What you might want to do is make the hunch a whole extra segment, since I knwo the timberwolf is coming, and we really, really want you to make it so you can shoot off the ears without losing a whole side torso. Being ready so the timberwolf doesn't suck in hit boxes is something many many of us really really want you to do.

It's a Madcat.

[Lightfoot]

Having the hitboxes overlap each other by a small amount might make the mechs take damage in a more simulation-like manner. Maybe not, but it might be worth looking at, if the game engine can support that of course.

[NuclearPanda]

I'm excited for what you all have planned with this!