95 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Shar Wolf, on 02 November 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

/whispers
I get a fair number of people who complain after dying that PGI has made it to hard, even after they grouped up with friends:
But it is usually quite obvious that those are the people who pretend they are the Doomguy mentioned above

And when PGI listens to those guys? That's when we wind up with thigns like 3pv, ghost heat, severe group limits, etc. The more you cater to those looking for an "easy" button, the more those who are actually wanting something more than an easy button get bored and move on.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Sandpit, on 02 November 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

And when PGI listens to those guys? That's when we wind up with thigns like 3pv, ghost heat, severe group limits, etc. The more you cater to those looking for an "easy" button, the more those who are actually wanting something more than an easy button get bored and move on.

I wasn't meaning otherwise: just trying (and apparently failing) to point out that it is not Premades or Pugs, but specific attitudes/individuals.

[Serapth]

Ghogiel, on 02 November 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

"My team sucks, You Guys Suck, Learn to Play"

There are a lot of bads out there.


When nearly all the people on your team die with under 200 damage besides you and 2 other people all at double and triple their contribution. Seems legit.

This.

Frankly when you get stuck in ELO hell and watch match after match, where you top the leaderboard for your team, often by a factor of 2 or 3x, you do eventually start getting rather bitter. Such is the joy of the PUG life.

You are seeing a rise in hatred because of ELO. Especially ELO that doesn't work for ****.

[Odins Fist]

PropagandaWar, on 01 November 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

"Is Blaming Others For Your Poor Performance The New Meta?"

No, not by a long shot...
.

.
.
It's even a possibility in 12 mans
.
.


Or Not...

Edited by Odins Fist, 02 November 2013 - 04:46 PM.

[Sandpit]

Shar Wolf, on 02 November 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

I wasn't meaning otherwise: just trying (and apparently failing) to point out that it is not Premades or Pugs, but specific attitudes/individuals.

I'm jsut explaining how this game is on a slow slide into that. People have moaned, groaned, whined, complained, raged, screamed, and otherwise blamed premades for their losses sicne CB.

I've pointed out several times it's not a premade problem. It's a new guy in trials and less tham optimized builds against vets in fully customized and optimized mechs thing.

New guy jumps into game, grabs a trial, and drops into a game with 11 teammates. If 9 of those teammates are in teh same boat as out Jon Doe while the other team is 12 vets all pugging in optimized builds and know the maps and use just a LITTLE teamwork, it's going to be a rollstomp. It doesn't matter if that opposing team is premade or not.

As long as new players in trial mechs are placed in the same queue as vets in optimized mechs this will continue to be a problem. They have nerfed premades every way they can without completely eliminating them and nothing has changed. (Which, incidentally, I predicted back in CB when they actually started the "3 phases" of premade hell) They have implemented ELO but forgot to take into account that all those vets pugging have to go into the same queue as the new guys. Thus when you take an average ELO for the team it can be very skewed if a few vets are on one side with new guys with poor ELO to average it out as opposed to having 12 players on the other side with similar ELO as a whole.

so:
12 players = 4 players with an ELO of 5000 and 8 players with 2000 = 36000 = 3000 Average ELO
12 players = 12 with ELO of 3000 = 3000 ELO

No assuming a 5000 ELO is top tier then we have an entire lance on the first team that would be considered very skilled players. If that one lance can take out 7 mechs before going down and get a little teamwork going on with the new players then that leaves an 8 on 5 of average pilots against new pilots with the vets still able to give tips and advice during the fight.

Those numbers are purely for examples but you get the point. If all things are even and both pilots have the same mech, the pilot with more skill is going to win most times. So anytime that new player drops against the vet they are at a severe disadvantage. Then you factor in the vet having exerpience with his mech as well as having it completely customized to the current system and mechanics we have in game and now there's a HUGE disadvantage.

Absolutely NONE OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH PREMADES. If you want a real reason this still happens start looking into these things I mentioned as opposed to blaming premades. Stop blaming premades for difference in skill levels. Premades aren't the reason you lose most times. Start blaming the things that really cause it. As long as you keep thinking the problem is teamwork and premades you wont' change or improve anything.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Sandpit, on 02 November 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

.......................

And I was trying to support your argument - and apparently failing

[Sandpit]

Shar Wolf, on 02 November 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

And I was trying to support your argument - and apparently failing

I'm not arguing AGAINST you, just elaborating. I'm not saying you disagree with me, I'm just preempting the normal "you're wrong, premades are evil boogeymen" responses that I know are coming because they've been coming for nearly two years with the same rhetoric. I know you agree, I jsut know there's many out there that want to blame everything but their individual skill level as to why they lose.

PGI does a HORRIBLE job with new player experience which then leads us to the whole "I lost, must be a premade
boogeyman on the other side"

I heart you shar, you make me chuckle on a daily basis with your responses to the QQ easy button crowd.

[B E E L Z E B U B]

i guess your only as good as your team is. but i rather try and communicate during battle then just blaming my team for defeat.

if i die ill try and hand out tips to people who are doing things wayyy wrong. like playing 6 ML in 3rd person, or shooting LRMs when the enemy is closer than 180m.

to be frank, i have raged once or twice about a noob team. not proud of it, just got frustrated i guess. my pet peeve is when i try to communicate and other players are simply not communicating back. like saying "big rush from left flank" and then no one comes to help. or like saying "3 on base, lights to base" or "2 closest go to base" but nobody does anything, no talking back no nothing.
main point is this, if you dont communicate you dont have the right to rage at your team and even then you really shouldn't.
negative behavior is contagious and if you blame someone, that someone is more likely to rage later against someone else.

this is a good thread, thank you for putting it up. i know it made me think about my remarks, even though im pretty sure 99% of the time im okay with people.

[Sandpit]

Karma Police, on 02 November 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

i guess your only as good as your team is. but i rather try and communicate during battle then just blaming my team for defeat.

if i die ill try and hand out tips to people who are doing things wayyy wrong. like playing 6 ML in 3rd person, or shooting LRMs when the enemy is closer than 180m.

to be frank, i have raged once or twice about a noob team. not proud of it, just got frustrated i guess. my pet peeve is when i try to communicate and other players are simply not communicating back. like saying "big rush from left flank" and then no one comes to help. or like saying "3 on base, lights to base" or "2 closest go to base" but nobody does anything, no talking back no nothing.
main point is this, if you dont communicate you dont have the right to rage at your team and even then you really shouldn't.
negative behavior is contagious and if you blame someone, that someone is more likely to rage later against someone else.

this is a good thread, thank you for putting it up. i know it made me think about my remarks, even though im pretty sure 99% of the time im okay with people.

we've all been there I think. Playing in games you shouldn't have lost and such simply because two or three want to do their own things. Some because they don't care, some because they don't know any better. It's cliche but jumping on teamspeak is usually the way to counter that.

[B E E L Z E B U B]

Roadbeer, on 01 November 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Speaking for the pre-mades, we're usually the ones laughing at the ubah-PUG who THINKS they know what's going on, takes command, gives dumb orders then rushes in to die.

And their subsequent nerdrage.

see thats the problem. just say your in a premade and you want control of the team, or better yet, take the command!

if a pug tries desperately to communicate as a commander its your fault for laughing at him behind his back instead of working with him or telling him you run the match.

[Hexenhammer]

I don't always call out my team but when I do we deserve it.

9/10 times I don't call out my team and when I do, I don't say you suck, or learn to play. I say things like. "Don't worry about us! We/re standing around catching butterflies."

[-Natural Selection-]

The only time I seem to get worked up is when there are 4 of us in a fight with 3 of them. You get around to pick off the weakest one and just at that moment the 2 guys behind you just turn around and go straight for their base. Now its 3 on 2 and they turn around and win. THATS when I feel the need to ask "WTF are you doing?".

[JudgeDeathCZ]

We sometimes loose even in 4-man premade lance bcuz rest of group are noobs/farmers which means 1st will die jenners and spiders who try to hit as much as possible targets and spider which do not know what to do.Next will die our LRM boats bcuz we have no more lights and their lights tear them appart bcuz they do not know they have to keep with main grp.They die 2 champion Atlai which push alone on the other side of a map agains 2 LRM boats in open...bcuz they are invincible in atlai right?NO!.
And then our team fail bcuz we managed to kill 1-2 undamaged enemies by focusing fire and we can do next to nothing to win.
And it is not funny if I do 2 times dmg in my Shadowhawk as my teammates in 2 atlas and 2 LRM boats...

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Serapth, on 02 November 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

This.

Frankly when you get stuck in ELO hell and watch match after match, where you top the leaderboard for your team, often by a factor of 2 or 3x, you do eventually start getting rather bitter. Such is the joy of the PUG life.

You are seeing a rise in hatred because of ELO. Especially ELO that doesn't work for ****.

Hey! Blaming Elo is so last season, blame your teammates instead

I dunno why it's so difficult for people to understand that some want to try new stuff and practice. Sometimes they fail, yeah. So what? I'm not comfortable in my tryhard HGN to this date but I keep practicing. Sometimes I fail, sometimes I deal nearly 1000 damage. Sometimes I'm terribly drunk, sometimes I do something just for the giggles.

It's totally different to take a jumpsniper you've ran for 500 matches and then take a Battlemaster with no basics open yet. Do I suck with it? Hell yeah! And I don't have a problem sucking with it. Learning to play with it while unlocking the skill tree. These guys yelling "you suck" in the chat are just lone tryhards who need to find a tryhard group for themselves to tryhard together and let rest of us just enjoy the game.

[Alistair Winter]

I think a lot of people are forgetting that this game is available for children. It's free to play.

The player who seems totally immature is probably twelve years old. Which is also why he has poor grammar.

[Ghogiel]

Alistair Winter, on 03 November 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

I think a lot of people are forgetting that this game is available for children. It's free to play.

The player who seems totally immature is probably twelve years old. Which is also why he has poor grammar.

I can't tell if you are having a dig at younge players or saying leave the poor children alone.

[Alistair Winter]

Ghogiel, on 03 November 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

I can't tell if you are having a dig at younge players or saying leave the poor children alone.

Young players with their caffe lattes and their hip hop music. Don't make me laugh. When I was a boy, I had to make my Locust out of tinfoil and asbestos. And we didn't complain about ghost heat either!

[Wolfways]

A few days ago i was in a Locust in a Conquest match and i found a Victor sitting on a cap so i ran up, sat in front of him and started firing and he immediately started firing back. A friendly Spider joined me and we killed the Victor who started ranting about how lights are stupidly OP.
I guess that nobody told him that 2xPPC's (his only weapons) did 0 damage under 90m, so i informed him but he didn't want to listen and continued to rant.

Actually i've seen a lot of light hate recently. If the team gets wiped out it's because the lights "were capping instead of fighting". If we get outcapped it's because the lights were too busy fighting to "do their job".
I guess some people just need someone to blame.

Oh yeah, and my team always sucks!

[xengk]

Raging and ingame QQ have been around since CBT, when the server population are all beta testers and golds.
However they are most entertaining when rager from both teams argue over whose team is worst than the other.

[MrMadguy]

Sorry, you alone can't affect team's performance. If team is being stomped, you can't do anything with it. Only bugged invulnerable spiders, who kill half of your team and doing 700+ dmg per match, and D-DCs can affect all team's gameplay.

P.S. I've just switched to my old sweet D-DC. Killing 3+ players, 6+ assists, doing 700+ damage per match. Still losing match after match. Something wrong with me?

Edited by MrMadguy, 04 November 2013 - 12:34 AM.