128 replies to this topic

[Magna Canus]

Appogee, on 07 November 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Do you usually confuse lack of agreement with lack of comprehension...? Or are you just hoping that, by being condescending, people may not notice how illogical your ''tiny little words'' are...?

I understood what you said. But no logical person could agree with your ridiculous proposition that it's ''anti-social'' to provide players with a reward that comes at no cost to oneself. In fact, that's the kind of ''social'' which characterises ''good sportsmanship''.

Wrong again. In the scenario I outlined - a nimble light Mech with barely any damage, against a half dozen damaged opponents - there was always a chance of getting a kill. Often in that scenario, there's even a chance of getting a win.

If you're looking for anti-social, look in the mirror. I expected better from someone who claims to be a member of the Golden Foxes.

First, you got me on a bad day, so I apologies for the tone of my previous post.

Second, being a good sportsman and being “social” is also about “being the bigger man” and accepting the fact that not everybody is going to play or think the same way you do. In the OP you are talking about reporting people and getting them banned for a comparatively trivial reason. You may personally not see it as trivial because of the ideologies you adhere to, but in the grand scheme of things it is. Accept the fact that some players are going to be intimidated by the odds and that you might just have an under aged kid in your sights, who knows. Have you checked their profile? Have you contacted that person and asked why they did that instead of what you feel is right? For the record, I have never and will never go out of bounds to end a fight, it’s not my style. But I also do not choose to bully others that decide to concede the battle and leave the field, I am better than that.

In the end, this is a game. People want to have fun, that is why we are here. Getting worked up this way about the last enemy not letting you kill them is an exaggerated reaction. Ranting about it and reporting people so that they get banned is not helping the game or player retention. “Be the bigger man”.

There are plenty of things that are by far much worse; TK, Suicide farmers on your team that DC before the battle begins, 12-0 ROFL-Stomps that generally demoralize a lot of new players, etc.

TDM is coming, private matches are coming, so “soon” you will not have to deal with that issue. Or just join a 12 man team.

[Razuko]

Appogee, on 07 November 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

Actually, no, it's an excerpt from PGI's official code of conduct governing both the use of this forum and the rules of the game.

The cod of conduct is what I was referring to. You think they give a damn if someone suicides? HAH! no....

[Jarl Dane]

By Odin's eye, people on the forums sure seem to complain a lot.

Let's just find reasons to ban everyone for doing anything you don't like.
Let's limit the experience and range of possibilities because sometimes people take advantage of them.
Let's put the double-layered kids gloves on because then everyone wins!

Hell, I don't even think TK'ers should be in trouble unless they are passionate repeat offenders. It's part of the spice of life. Sometimes you run into a jerk you shots at you and sometimes you have to deal with it. Sorry that it might be annoying at the time, but it adds variety to your experience. Which I think is a good thing.

Same with the 'Mech pilot who runs out of bounds instead of letting the other team kill him. Maybe you see he is all that is left and heavily damaged and maybe you see he is trying to escape out of the map and if you want that kill for yourself, or your team, you have to chase him down.

I don't know about you, but that scenerio sounds interesting to me. I am glad that scenerio exists. I would be upset if it didn't.

[Jon Gotham]

Appogee, on 05 November 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

So it's ok to suicide rather than fight it out? I'm genuinely surprised that that's considered ok.

I'm surprised it's considered ok to gank a mech 7 on 1.....what's sportmanslike or brave about that?

If he's a coward for not offering himself to you-why is it any better to gank him?


PS: I'm NOT having a pop at you there ok? Just playing devil's advocate.

[Appogee]

kamiko kross, on 09 November 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

I'm surprised it's considered ok to gank a mech 7 on 1.....what's sportmanslike or brave about that?

The game isn't over, and he is a light and mobile Mech who is barely damaged, facing off against slower Mechs who are damaged.

His first strategy should be to split us up, so that it's not 7 on 1, and then he should be to kill as many as he can by focusing on injured Mechs. I'd be surprising if he couldn't have killed at least one, possibly more, earning himself and his teammates more CBills.

The whole point of my post is that it's a cowardly cop out - and against the rules - to just leave the field of battle because you think the odds are against you. As I personally demonstrated in the games I linked above, it's stupid to be a quitter. Many times, if you persist, you can get extra kills and sometimes win the entire game.

[Jon Gotham]

Hmmm, this topic was on the WoT forums a few times-it was a flashpoint alright. I get the logic of it....but certainly don't get the coward label.
In my own opinion it's just as, if not more so cowardly for 5 mechs to gank 1. Just to get a few more c bills.

If I think I can fight and bite back I will. If I'll just be a sacrifice, I certainly will try to take away that satisfaction of the gank, if I can.

It can also be a show of sportsmanship, and good class to leave that last enemy be-providing he does not try anything........
But then, I'm rather naive there-it's something I have done in many games and would hope others do too. But usually it's a pack of jackals all rushing in to get that last kill:)

But, with all respect using the term cowardly perhaps isn't the right one.

[strygalldwir]

If the pilot wants to seppuku at 5 on 1 I can sort of understand it. Bit spiteful maybe, depends on the opponents, does he have any history with some of them.

[Jarl Dane]

Appogee is just upset he doesn't get his free kill.

Those damn cowards!

[B3RT]

I think that PGI has clearly stated their stance on the matter in the Mechwarrior Code of Conduct.

Is it a legitimate strategy? I suppose the game mechanics allow it to be done so it could be considered legitimate in that manner. But rather than trying to determine "legitimacy" I'd think it more apt to determine its effectiveness.

What benefit is there in retreating as the last living member of the team? The match will result in a loss for the team, so you don't get the bonuses associated with a win (meager as the differences are, a win is still better than a loss).

I suppose it could be argued that it speeds up the round, freeing the 'mechs of others so that they can be used in the next match. But then again, so does running headlong into certain death by superior force.

Nothing is currently gained by the party retreating. In the old days of the closed beta when you had to pay for the repairs and rearmament of your 'mech out of the CB gained from the match, there was a pretty clear advantage to avoiding an excessive amount of damage. It promoted efficiency in both your build and your play style. If you had an expensive build, it had an expensive upkeep, thus promoting winning as quickly and damage free as possible.

At that time, if you couldn't win by killing the remaining enemy or by evading the force and capturing the base, there was logic in shutting down and letting them cap. But now, with free repair/rearms at the end of the match, there is no real tangible benefit to playing conservatively as before.

However, there is tangible benefit for you if you attempt to fight. You may accrue some not yet earned experience by way of component destruction bonuses and/or kills, etc. You may even be able to manage turning a loss into a win (cap or enemy elimination). Personally I prefer to harness as much XP/CB from each match as possible, regardless of the final win/loss outcome.

Since there is no economic drawback to having your entire 'mech blown to pieces, I see no reason not to fight until they completely incapacitate you.

A win is a win, is a win. A win is not a loss, and is not achieved by running from the battle space. Though, sometimes a loss is a win, like when you disable a team so bad, that even though they got you in the end, you made them earn it 5 on 1, taking every life you could.

Edited by B3RT, 09 November 2013 - 05:24 PM.

[Burke IV]

what are you going ot report people for? that damn countdown is so fast and sometimes it even lags. You know what this game is like for lag, people dont even realise till its too late...

[DarkDevilDancer]

Personally I'd rather the last surviving scout runs oob instead of running away for several minutes, too often a game drags on and on because that last scout insists on wasting the winning teams time, In conquest waiting for the points to cap is fair enough but in assault it's just being a troll.

In real life soldiers outnumbered don't run into the enemies guns and throw their lives away, they retreat and live to fight another day, that's not cowardice that's tactical acumen.

[Appogee]

DarkDevilDancer, on 10 November 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

In real life soldiers outnumbered don't run into the enemies guns and throw their lives away, they retreat and live to fight another day, that's not cowardice that's tactical acumen.

But this isn't real life.

This is a video game.

It's a video game where there is nothing to be gained by running OOB.

It's a video game where rewards can be gained by at least trying to get a kill.

So, in this video game, ''tactical acumen'' is trying to kill something, to get a reward for yourself and the team, instead of running OOB and gaining nothing for anyone.

Edited by Appogee, 10 November 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[B3RT]

DarkDevilDancer, on 10 November 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

In real life soldiers outnumbered don't run into the enemies guns and throw their lives away, they retreat and live to fight another day, that's not cowardice that's tactical acumen.

Typically, the retreating soldier will maneuver to achieve a more favorable position to re-engage, resort to guerrilla tactics to demoralize and slow the enemy, or even to link up with friendly forces. "Living to fight another day" doesn't apply to this situation because moving out of bounds kills you.

In real life a soldier doesn't run away from the enemy to jump on his own grenade.

[Gremlich Johns]

Shutting down while you wait for an enemy or enemies to walk by your position so you can ambush is a variation of hiding with the intent of follow on action, and it is not going AFK. Think about that, an ambush.

Ambush:

Noun: a surprise attack by people lying in wait in a concealed position.

Verb: make a surprise attack on (someone) from a concealed position.

Now, Hiding:

verb, transitive,.

• 1. To put or keep out of sight; secrete.
  
• 2. To prevent the disclosure or recognition of; conceal: tried to hide the facts.
  
• 3. To cut off from sight; cover up: Clouds hid the stars.
  
• 4. To avert (one's gaze), especially in shame or grief.

verb,intransitive.

• 1. To keep oneself out of sight.
  
• 2. To seek refuge.

Phrasal Verb:

hide out --To be in hiding, as from a pursuer: The gangsters hid out in a remote cabin until it was safe to return to the city.

Shutting down in an area where NO enemy is likely to walk by with the full intention of waiting out the clock is or not considering anything is, well, hiding. Running away is a better tactic.

Because calling out the coordinates is against the rules as much as avoiding playing is, I instead would declare the obviously non-team player, dependent on where he shuts down at, as shut down and hiding if longer than 15 seconds (long enough to break a missile and radar lock (not a violation, by the way - that's playing smart) and then give a vague description of the offensive player's whereabouts - thereby staying within the poorly contrived rule set. It's a PUG match after all with no impact on CW. Oh wait, that's not here yet. I've actually done this once. Today in fact. ("sdr shut down in a corner below your base" no grid(s) called)

I also especially dislike light mech pilots who would rather Rambo and die in the first 2-3 minutes of a match (while giving no useful information) instead of practicing scout skills and staying alive for the majority of the match if not the entirety.

I've been accused of hiding before. When you are piloting a mech with a max weapons range of 270m, you need to avoid being shot at for the longest time possible. That isn't hiding, it's playing smart - strategy. You either want those guns when they can engage effectively, or you want them to waste ammo.

I'm with Victor Morson on this.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 10 November 2013 - 05:05 PM.

[Burke IV]

How does the OP feel about deliberately over heating? lava on terra, or just by overiding... Walking out of bounds is not the only way a mech can go pop. Its starting ot feel like a similar situation to macro use tbh

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Nope, strategic retreat or cowardice however you want to call it, it's still a part of combat.

[Otto Cannon]

Personally if I'm the last left I'll try to get a few last damage points in or perform a flying teabag attack against the most annoying enemy so his team shoot him by mistake.


Anyone with even a basic grasp of logic and psychology will know that sometimes people are going to run oob if they think there's no chance of even causing damage before they die. The options are:


Let the enemy kill you- they benefit and your team don't.

Hide- both teams are inconvenienced.

Suicide- only the enemy lose out.


Whenever someone gets ******** and feels that you don't deserve the satisfaction you can expect it to happen. It doesn't bother me, I'm just glad they didn't hide instead and I can start another match.

[General Solo]

I dont suicide with my artillery, but when ur in a legged spider surrounded by 3 or 4 heavy or assault mechs about 5 metres away, artillery seemed like a good idea at the time, as I was going to be dead real soon any way

[Evil Ed]

You even care about starting a tread about this? We had a suicide in a 12-mans yesterday. A Jenner had two of our scouts + 2-3 lightkilling 2D2s on his tail and did choose to go out of border and die in an unmanly way. "Trolololol, he knew had trouble!" - aaaand on to the next game.

What's wrong with you, complaining about exactly everything in this game?

[990Dreams]

NOTICE: If you read the "Uniform Code of Mechwarrior Conduct" it says that self-destructing is not allowed. I don't know what the exceptions are, but...