191 replies to this topic

[NuclearPanda]

Dear Pgi,

On behalf of myself and many others I would like to post the following.





This is definitely a welcome change and completely understandable as to why it was done. If a mech was equipped with Seismic, and walking at the same time, their whole sensor screen should be blowing up with detection every, step, they, took.

This is certainly more realistic.

[Zink1701]

Agreed. I use seismic on a few of my mechs and it seemed a bit unrealistic. I am glad for the change.

[Durant Carlyle]

Yes. I sold all of my Seismics when I heard they were being nerfed, and I've been training myself to do without that constant position info for a month or so now.

For light pilots like me, it's much better -- those than can track me can't catch me, and I can't be tracked by those that can catch me.

[Thipequz]

Realistic? Yes. Waste of 48,000,000 of my c-bills? Also yes. I use these on my light mechs to circumvent mechs and avoid running into 6 heavy mechs which will ultimately destroy me in one shot, if that is an abusive misuse of a good module then light mechs need 30% more armour, having to stand still to check around every corner is just going to make this an impossibility, if realism was the key, then why not have a nuke module that just blows up half a mile radius, as considering the time this game is set, that's pretty realistic too!

Edited by Thipequz, 05 November 2013 - 12:32 PM.

[BloodyDziq]

Sonic sensor should work JUST LIKE the move detector in Alien (movie/game) with range and/or "bip" frequency depends on mech weight, lighter mechs should have an advantage


I'm almost certain they narf it becouse every one was using it all the time ... I know, I was

... and it should work when walking

Edited by Seraphims Blood, 05 November 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[NuclearPanda]

Thipequz, on 05 November 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Realistic? Yes. Waste of 48,000,000 of my c-bills? Also yes. I use these on my light mechs to circumvent mechs and avoid running into 6 heavy mechs which will ultimately destroy me in one shot, if that is an abusive misuse of a good module then light mechs need 30% more armour, having to stand still to check around every corner is just going to make this an impossibility, if realism was the key, then why not have a nuke module that just blows up half a mile radius, as considering the time this game is set, that's pretty realistic too!

No one forced you to spend 48 million CBills. Not only that, but this was clearly announced more than a month ago. Where was the forum outcry then?

http://mwomercs.com/...25#entry2798425

You can still avoid running into a large assault force of mechs through the use of Seismic in its proper way. You can stop for a moment around corners and see if there are forces there and still relay information to the rest of your squad. You can still flank them knowing which way they are coming this way.

Would you rather your whole minimap be completely unusable as a giant red blob for every footstep your mech takes? Thats how Seismic should work if it stayed the old way.

[Durant Carlyle]

Thipequz, on 05 November 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Realistic? Yes. Waste of 48,000,000 of my c-bills? Also yes. I use these on my light mechs to circumvent mechs and avoid running into 6 heavy mechs which will ultimately destroy me in one shot, if that is an abusive misuse of a good module then light mechs need 30% more armour, having to stand still to check around every corner is just going to make this an impossibility, if realism was the key, then why not have a nuke module that just blows up half a mile radius, as considering the time this game is set, that's pretty realistic too!

Play style adjustments will have to be made, yes.

We did just fine before Seismic, and we will do just fine after this nerf.

[QuackAttack]

More Applause.

[Durant Carlyle]

Seraphims Blood, on 05 November 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

Sonic sensor should work JUST LIKE the move detector in Alien (movie/game) with range and/or "bip" frequency depends on mech weight, lighter mechs should have an advantage


I'm almost certain they narf it becouse every one was using it all the time ... I know, I was

... and it should work when walking

Seismic sensors detect vibrations through the ground (or whatever your 'Mech is standing on).

The sensor in Alien is a motion sensor. Totally different detection method.

[NuclearPanda]

Durant Carlyle, on 05 November 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Seismic sensors detect vibrations through the ground (or whatever your 'Mech is standing on).

Yup, and believe it or not people who are using Seismic are generating their own vibrations also while moving themselves as well!

And thus the nerf was sensible.

[Thipequz]

NuclearPanda, on 05 November 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

No one forced you to spend 48 million CBills. Not only that, but this was clearly announced more than a month ago. Where was the forum outcry then? http://mwomercs.com/...25#entry2798425 You can still avoid running into a large assault force of mechs through the use of Seismic in its proper way. You can stop for a moment around corners and see if there are forces there and still relay information to the rest of your squad. You can still flank them knowing which way they are coming this way. Would you rather your whole minimap be completely unusable as a giant red blob for every footstep your mech takes? Thats how Seismic should work if it stayed the old way.

Of course I can play without it, and no, nobody did force me to spend this money, but also, I paid money money on something else, not this! I find this module to be invaluable at times, and has stopped the inevitable insta death that so many lights struggle with at times (yes im looking at you dual ac20 jagers, lol). Realism really isn't what this game is about, considering its set a thousand years from now, I reckon a computer could determine which are the seismic readings from your own feet and which are your team mates and which are "unkown", so its not really THAT realistic, is it? Plus if I wanted to stop on each corner, I might as well press F4 and peek round the corner using that instead.

Edited by Thipequz, 05 November 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[NuclearPanda]

Thipequz, on 05 November 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Of course I can play without it, and no, nobody did force me to spend this money, but also, I paid money money on something else, not this! I find this module to be invaluable at times, and has stopped the inevitable insta death that so many lights struggle with at times (yes im looking at you dual ac20 jagers, lol). Realism really isn't what this game is about, considering its set a thousand years from now, I reckon a computer could determine which are the seismic readings from your own feet and which are your team mates and which are "unkown", so its not really THAT realistic, is it?

Realism aside, a wallhack is a wallhack. Granted, it's still a wallhack but it's been aligned to be slightly more reasonable.

The developers have stated time and time again that cover is an important mechanic in this game for some aspects. Light mechs especially should be utilitizing cover to avoid fire due to their exceptionally low armor values.

Does that mean you're hiding sometimes? Sure. This also means you're not moving and can relay information obtained by your installed Seismic Sensor.

This also means that after you relay information to your team who moves in to help that you are free to flank/harass from an opposing direction.

I see no issue here.

Edited by NuclearPanda, 05 November 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[Jakob Knight]

NuclearPanda, on 05 November 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

No one forced you to spend 48 million CBills. Not only that, but this was clearly announced more than a month ago. Where was the forum outcry then?

Considering people who purchased Seismic Sensors probably did so quite a long time before the announcement and (as seen with 1PV) by the time any announcement is made the fix is already in, the statements above are pretty pointless. As the module is/was priced as a top-end module, this represents a significant loss of investment. Added to that that this is not just a nerf but pretty much rendering this a useless module (not only the requirement of ending movement and the false readings from any weapons fire at all, but the retaining of the range limits that made this module less than useful beyond knife-fighting ranges where you probably didn't need it), and you end up with a situation where anyone who has purchased this module has, in effect, thrown away their money.

Where was the outcry? Pretty much where the 1PV and previous outcries went. People have just stopped caring about the game and trying to voice any feedback, because they know the Devs don't care, and it's a waste of time to even try for reasoned objection to anything done anymore. The acceptance that this is only a shallow video game, and will always be just a shallow video game to everyone who could make it something more (as opposed to what it was supposed to be at the outset) has set in, and there just isn't any point continuing to point out the obvious time and again.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 05 November 2013 - 01:05 PM.

[NuclearPanda]

Jakob Knight, on 05 November 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Considering people who purchased Seismic Sensors probably did so quite a long time before the announcement. As the module is/was priced as a top-end module, this represents a significant loss of investment. Added to that that this is not just a nerf but pretty much rendering this a useless module (not only the requirement of ending movement and the false readings from any weapons fire at all, but the retaining of the range limits that made this module less than useful beyond knife-fighting ranges where you probably didn't need it), and you end up with a situation where anyone who has purchased this module has, in effect, thrown away their money.

Where was the outcry? Pretty much where the 1PV and previous outcries went. People have just stopped caring about the game and trying to voice any feedback, because they know the Devs don't care, and it's a waste of time to even try for reasoned objection to anything done anymore. The acceptance that this is only a shallow video game, and will always be just a shallow video game to everyone who could make it something more (as opposed to what it was supposed to be at the outset) has set in, and there just isn't any point continuing to point out the obvious time and again.

Jakob, I would like to respectfully disagree with your statement that it is useless. I have stated a few times within this thread some situations where it would be plenty useful for teamwork (something this game occasionally sorely lacks).

Is it a nerf for super commandos who want to run around like MechaRambo? Absolutely. Does it still provide useful tactical information when used properly? Absolutely.

I would however be extremely open to the Devs again increasing the range of Seismic once again. To me this would be a completely fair compromise that I would support.

As for 1PV? That's a whole other bag of worms. That WAS handled poorly, and I agree no one wanted 3PV.

[Thipequz]

Jakob Knight, on 05 November 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Considering people who purchased Seismic Sensors probably did so quite a long time before the announcement and (as seen with 1PV) by the time any announcement is made the fix is already in, the statements above are pretty pointless. As the module is/was priced as a top-end module, this represents a significant loss of investment. Added to that that this is not just a nerf but pretty much rendering this a useless module (not only the requirement of ending movement and the false readings from any weapons fire at all, but the retaining of the range limits that made this module less than useful beyond knife-fighting ranges where you probably didn't need it), and you end up with a situation where anyone who has purchased this module has, in effect, thrown away their money.

Thank you, someone who actually see's why buying something and then getting it completely nerfed beyond a useable state is actually very annoying. Next time I go to buy a car and ask for all the extras, I guess I wont be disappointed or annoyed when a Skoda without any wheels turns up at my door, I guess you don't always get what you pay for

[Thipequz]

I am not actually that pissed about the nerf per say, what I am annoyed with is the fact that I could have bought 8 or more other modules that will now prove more useful. PGI give me my c-bills back for the modules and I have no issue

[Durant Carlyle]

Jakob Knight, on 05 November 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Text revealing Jakob Knight has given up on the game.

Wow, you're a real party pooper.

The game is going places. Community Warfare is coming. It might not be all the devs (and us) ever wanted it to be, but that's the reality of game development. Some things just can't be done, or would be horrendously expensive to do ... and you don't learn those things until far later in the process.

NuclearPanda -- No one here on the forums wanted 3PV. Evidently they received a lot more responses via E-mail or something that led them to think we (the forum majority) are the minority.

Thipequz -- you got your 48 million C-Bills worth out of the modules already. And you can still use them, with some adjustments to play style. Remember that you're still better off with them than you were before Seismic was introduced.

Are you going to ask for a C-Bill refund for every item you didn't think you got your money's worth out of? lol

And this is a free to play game -- there will be constant adjustments to lots of different things in the game. Expecting anything else is unrealistic.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 05 November 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Frogfire]

The issue with seismic is that it hit mechs very different. As others have stated in the patchnote post, standing still can spell doom for a light, where a single alpha can take you from unhurt to dead. But it is less troublesome for an assault. Especially given that lights often play the role of scout or forward observer, the loss of local awareness is a big hit.

Gameplay wise, I think we need more tactical tools - not less. There is already enough of 'heads front, shoot at what you see'. If seismic was to powerful, then make a countermodule to stealth your seismic print or leave false echoes, rather than gimp it out of purpose.

And please don't use realism as an argument. It wouldn't be to hard to come up with some pseudoscience explanation of how it works, and why the computer can eliminate the signals coming from your own and registered friendly mechs.

Realism would also mean that dust or mist would dull your lasers, or padding your mech in mirrors would severely limit their effect. It would mean that smacking your mech into a cliff wall at 130kph would dent your armor. Or losing a leg would topple you over, since you cannot tilt your upper body to find balance.
It would probably break my sense of realism, or at least immersion, if they suddenly brought fairies into MW:O. But having a techmodule do something that we are not capable of today, is fair game.

If you see a drop in the number of lights and the calls for 'return to base' or 'lights cap' goes unheeded, I hope you take it in the same spirit as this module nerf.

[NuclearPanda]

I still don't see why you're saying it was "nerfed beyond a useable state".

It's still quite useable, just not while you're moving around at 150kph. Try parking yourself, behind cover, and relay information to teammates and proceed to flank/harass from a different direction. It's quite simple and still effective.

Durant Carlyle, on 05 November 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

NuclearPanda -- No one here on the forums wanted 3PV. Evidently they received a lot more responses via E-mail or something that led them to think we (the forum majority) are the minority.

I know this. I was very vocal about the whole 3PV fiasco. It was handled poorly and we were flat out lied to. I've learned to deal with it for now.

[d34th4nd]

As primarily a light player the only thing this Nerf has done is give me a "your being shot by the enemy/there's an enemy shooting near you" sensor which i am fully aware off as i am capable of seeing that there is weapons fire. the pre Nerf module allowed my locust, Jenner, raven have sitautonal awareness that now if i run straight into an atlas its a sure thing i am dead as opposed to my previous mentality of "well that's to hot for this little thing move on" i think that is what thipequz and jacob knight are getting at