269 replies to this topic

[Purlana]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

But how competitive is it, if you take only the top equipment? Am I really better than you if I win on even footing. Yes, Am I really better than you if I win in a less optimal(but more my style) build?

I am saying that having restrictions that say take X of this tonnage class and Y of that tonnage class doesn't really solve anything. Because even within the tonnage classes their are notable differences. Perfect balance is impossible to achieve unless you want to limit everyone to 1 build. And that's just not fun for MechWarrior....

Edited by Purlana, 07 November 2013 - 08:54 AM.

[Wispsy]

Ecto Cooler, on 07 November 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I don't see the issue, any competitive league would have rules and limitations to create balance and fairness. Each league would probably have different rule sets or varieties of them. Such as you can't use a rocket-powered bicycle during the Tour de France, even though many people might have access to rocket-powered bicycles (I wish).

So do you need the game to create these rules and limitations to play, especially for casual gamers, because of some people wanting to e-sport or play competitively? There is nothing to stop competitive play by setting tonnage limits, equipment restrictions, or whatever other rules you want for your league.

Well most games aim to be balanced without needing large amounts of restrictions on what you can bring...Hell even WoW was more balanced then this...And look at LoL, arguably one of the most successful esports to this day, you get 3 bans on over 100 champions and you see 70+ different champions in the world finals. They have no "you can only bring 2 assassins" or "no more then 1 tank" rule...people play different strategies fitting to the strengths of their playstyle or the weakness of their enemies.

MWO could be like this...but no...instead they want to make one thing the all out strongest, able to **** on every other class, then saying "well you can only have a couple of them, so we will at least see the other guys in the match whilst you **** on them".

[Vodrin Thales]

Purlana, on 07 November 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Then really it's a balance issue based on mech design. Even if your restricted to have 3 assault mechs the problem remains. Your forced to take 3 highlanders or suffer...? 3 lights? Well take jenners / spiders or suffer...?

That's a weapon balance issue. The reason you see Highlander 733C's in most drop decks now is because the PPC/UAC5 weapons they carry are simply better than the alternatives. Better weapon balance will largely mitigate this issue.

[Joseph Mallan]

Purlana, on 07 November 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

I am saying that having restrictions that say take X of this tonnage class and Y of that tonnage class doesn't really solve anything. Because even within the tonnage classes their are notable differences. Perfect balance is impossible to achieve unless you want to limit everyone to 1 build. And that's just not fun for MechWarrior....

Cool.

[Howdy Doody]

Now I know why when I tried to buy an Atlas it said, "Sold Out".

[Wispsy]

Vodrin Thales, on 07 November 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

That's a weapon balance issue. The reason you see Highlander 733C's in most drop decks now is because the PPC/UAC5 weapons they carry are simply better than the alternatives. Better weapon balance will largely mitigate this issue.

So what kind of weapons if made the strongest would be better on a different mech to the highlander?

[Thumper3]

LordVanquish, on 07 November 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

There's lots of a reasons why Atlai don't do much damage in most 12 mans, and even more so in a crazy drop like this:

- They are usually the first ones in, drawing enemy fire. If you're good, you'd be too busy torso twisting to mitigate damage to fire back at the enemy. If you focus on firing the enemy, you'd get cored out pushing their firing line in no time.

-In pushing the enemy line, they are very easily stripped of weapons and will have to rotate out with no weapons left.

Yeah, the Highlander guys with their high damage from plinking away from the back lines get all the chicks at the bar afterwards.......but it's the dead Atlai (yes, Atlai is a word!!!) pilots that kept them alive to get to the bar.

It is on our cold dead bodies those Highlanders sit high and proud!!! But it is a nessacary role. As a drop commander once told me when I was a fresh faced cadet....."When I give you the move order, that's me cashing in your life insurance policy."

And how come no ones complains when we go out with 12 Spiders? LOL

[Purlana]

Vodrin Thales, on 07 November 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

That's a weapon balance issue. The reason you see Highlander 733C's in most drop decks now is because the PPC/UAC5 weapons they carry are simply better than the alternatives. Better weapon balance will largely mitigate this issue.

I am not so sure about that, some mech designs are just superior and some just fall short. For example ravens locusts, and awsomes are considered sub-par, and it's not something that can really be fixed by balancing weapons.

Edited by Purlana, 07 November 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 07 November 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

So what kind of weapons if made the strongest would be better on a different mech to the highlander?

Outside of jumping anything a Highlander can do m D-DC can do.

[Wispsy]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Outside of jumping anything a Highlander can do m D-DC can do.

Right...that was never in question.

[Khobai]

Quote

Outside of jumping anything a Highlander can do m D-DC can do.

Not anything. The Highlanders weapons (especially Heavy Metal) are also all arm mounted or torso mounted streaks (which fire like arm mounted weapons). Thats a pretty huge advantage. Especially when the Atlas' main dps weapons cant shoot up. All you have to do is get above an Atlas and its dps is halved, which is quite easy with jumpjets.

Quote

I am not so sure about that, some mech designs are just superior and some just fall short. For example ravens locusts, and awsomes are considered sub-par, and it's not something that can really be fixed by balancing weapons.

Well fixing SRMs would certainly help restore mediums. Since mediums need the high damage to low weight ratio of SRMs to compete. It was strong SRMs that were keeping the Centurion competititive before, but weak SRMs have made the last of the viable mediums fall out of favor.

But for the most part balancing weapons isnt going to fix underpowered variants. The only way to balance them would be by implementing a quirk system where mechs can be given positive or negative quirks based on how far below or above baseline they are. And by quirks I dont mean more arm movement or torso twist, I mean actual quirks that have a significant impact on gameplay.

Edited by Khobai, 07 November 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[Hellcat420]

Khobai, on 07 November 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Nope. The Highlanders weapons are all arm mounted or streaks. Thats a pretty big advantage. Especially when the Atlas' main damage dealing weapon cant shoot up or down. All you have to do is get above an Atlas and its dps is halved, which is quite easy with jumpjets.

wrong. highlanders have roughly half of their weapons in the arms and half of their weapons in the torso on each side of the mech. the highlander hero mech is the only exception to this. in fact other than the hero mech, 2 highlander variants have more weapons in the torso than the arms, and the other two have even weapon placement between the arms and torso(2 in each).

Edited by Hellcat420, 07 November 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

And, if you say so. I don't worry to much about a jumping assault in my D-DC.

[Khobai]

Quote

wrong. highlanders have roughly half of their weapons in the arms and half of their weapons in the torso on each side of the mech.

Heavy Metal has its autocannons and ppcs entirely in its arms.

[Fate 6]

Wispsy, on 07 November 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

So what kind of weapons if made the strongest would be better on a different mech to the highlander?

Medium. Motha ******. Lasers. YEEEEEAH.

RIP HBK-4P

Seriously though, close range energy weapons need HUGE buffs. Small lasers, SPL, MPL, ML. Those are the weapons that we won't see abused by large mechs - only a few have enough energy points for us to care, and of those only the Stalker is at all scary (nobody cares if the TDR and AWS get buffs, they have terrible models as brawlers). The energy boat mediums and heavies want their sails back.

Edited by Fate 6, 07 November 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 07 November 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Heavy Metal has its autocannons and ppcs entirely in its arms.

And my Atlas has its PPCs in the Arms, and you can't fly forever!

Weztside, on 06 November 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

I'm sorry if any one took this post personally. I'll go on the record and apologize if any feelings were hurt. I guess I should have stated this in the OP, but the purpose of this was to explain why no one actually likes watching this game or think of it as E-sport worthy. I really do like how people took such a simple post and put their own meaning to it. In the match shown in the OP it wasn't a matter of superior tactics or skill that won the match it was the team with more armor and bigger guns sitting in one spot the whole match.

If being E-Sport worthy means vanilla style play, I never want to see it become one!!!

[Strajen Marez]

Weztside, on 06 November 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

BFD. Just play the damn game and enjoy it or don't play it if you don't enjoy it. Quit relying on other people's creations to have meaning in your life FFS. The fact any video game is considered a sport of any kind is rather silly anyways; it is illogical to expect that out of any video game to begin with.

[verbosity]

it goes the other way as well, I've been in "for fun" 12-mans where we are all in jenners, the Atlai never stood a chance.

On top of that any reasonably competent 12-man would be able to beat an all-atlas team, they are not invincible and have several weaknesses that can be exploited ( no jump jets, vulnerable to lights, slow). Tonnage is not the be-all-and-end-all thats it's often made out to be, and all drop decks will have stronger ( and weaker ) maps.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Soo, what's the big deal if this is marked as an E-Sport or not, really, if it's that big a deal wouldn't the creators of E-Sports be pumping money into PGI and be telling them how to make a clone of some other E-sport game, just with Battlemechs?

If it's something someone wants to claim they are the best at you should be asking for arenas along with CW so you could have the ladder leagues and scoreboards that everyone could see.

[Bounty Dogg]

I still can't find an answer to this question concerning weight restrictions in the PUG Matchmaker. Maybe here.....

Who gets to choose who pilots what?

If 24 people are online with assault mechs looking to team, who gets the priority if some of them are going on one team? Who gets to pilot the mech they felt like playing at that moment, and who doesn't? What are those who don't told? Are they put back into the queue? To Wait LONGER for a match? Are they outright refused?

I admit I don't understand how this is not going to negatively impact the playerbase. they either can't play the mechs they feel like playing, or they have to wait even longer for a match than the wait can be now. That seems to be the only two valid outcomes here.