910 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

ColonelMetus, on 17 November 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

there should be a module to buff AMS in the LRM dominated meta

If the LRM is dominant in the current meta...

Ahahahahaha, no.

[ColonelMetus]

ColonelMetus, on 17 November 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

there should be a module to buff AMS in the LRM dominated meta

[BlacKcuD]

LRMs are completely useless in 12vs12 and the occasional victory they provide in PUG play is hardly worth mentioning in my opinion. Instead of nerfing LRMs the developers should concern themselves with UI2.0, CW, or buffing the Battlemaster!

[Sephlock]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

It is a Thing. And a mean one. I look forward to the challenge of beating it. Its just as powerful as a 6 PPC Stalker is. SO I know it will be nerfed.

FTFY

[Joseph Mallan]

And unfortunately, probably true Sephlock.

[Lyoto Machida]

ColonelMetus, on 17 November 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

there should be a module to buff AMS in the LRM dominated meta

"LRM dominated meta" seems to be a paradox of some sort...I'm still trying to process that statement. Or maybe it's an alternate ELO universe...

[Sandpit]

So have we officially moved to LRM meta from AC meta until tomorrow? I'm trying to keep all these metas straight in my calendar and it's getting confusing between JJ, poptarting, AC, lrm, and assault metas....

[xMEPHISTOx]

Quote

ColonelMetus, on 17 November 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:


there should be a module to buff AMS in the LRM dominated meta

[KharnZor]

ColonelMetus, on 17 November 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

there should be a module to buff AMS in the LRM dominated meta

[Gorthaur]

Had to comment on this topic even though I read only a few posts. I usually don't mind LRMS, finding cover is usually easy enough and it is easy to take out LRM boats most of the time due to the 180 meter min range. But having 75% or more of each team in a game playing in LRM heavy mechs is getting absolutely ridiculous.

I mean the screen shake is one thing. Not being able to find cover due the sheer amount of missiles in the air is another thing. These are annoying but this isn't what is bugging me. What is bugging me is these 2 situations that I keep getting EVERY game:

1) the majority of most teams sit at max LRM range firing at each other most of the game until enough damage is done and one team snowballs.

2) The team I am on is sitting in the back firing LRMs, unwilling to move forward at all, and the enemy team just annihilates us by actually pushing forward.

LRMs are really watering down gameplay at the moment and it is really frustrating a lot of the time. I don't know what exactly brought on these last couple weeks, but it is insane. I haven't seen this many LRMs since the Artemis fiasco last fall.

EDIT: Also, AMS seems just about worthless at the moment.A large part of this is probably the fact that a lot of people neglect to bring it (which everyone should during this nonsense to help themselves and others).

But I have played a few matches where my AMS only uses 100 shots or so even though the ammo would normally be depleted. I noticed this one day and have been keeping an eye on AMS during game. I may be wrong, but I swear I was watching my AMS shoot down maybe 1-2 missiles per volley (sometimes none) while the rest of the missiles just bomb on me and my team.

Edited by Gorthaur, 19 November 2013 - 06:06 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 18 November 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

So have we officially moved to LRM meta from AC meta until tomorrow? I'm trying to keep all these metas straight in my calendar and it's getting confusing between JJ, poptarting, AC, lrm, and assault metas....

In a Nutshell its the, "If it kills me its OP" Meta.

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

In a Nutshell its the, "If it kills me its OP" Meta.

Exactly

[Joseph Mallan]

I know... Sad ain't it?

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Yep, he stood out in the open and probalby got tagged and rained on by a couple of LRM mechs. then stood there going uh duh till he died.

A. carry AMS
B. use ECM umbrella
C. use physical cover
D. look for tag beam and break off from it.
E. Advance TOWARDS LRM's quickly as they have a min range.
F. kill and move on

[ManaValkyrie]

Being an LRM Jock myself regularly, LRM's are not OP, they are pretty well balanced at the moment. I don't boat LRM's but I do use them on several mechs as the primary weapon system. For those that complain about people sitting back at extreme LRM range and playing missile commander, actually the damage at range with the flight time, AMS and such means actually little damage is done, it becomes a supression tool, to force the other team back into cover. LRMs become extremely effective under 700m, with better flight to target times, inside radar range. This is then boosted by players using artemis and having their own visual locks onto mechs.

With regards to AMS, it's actually been buffed already, a LRM10 flight has a job punching through a single AMS system, with maybe 2-3 missiles actually hitting the target.

The MAIN reason that teams do get chewed up by missiles is that many players can't be bothered with AMS and then complain when they a missile mech realises there target has no AMS and starts chain firing instead of salvo firing (It's more heat efficient, more damage effect and better ROF). Or they simple ignore missiles incomming and refuse to get into cover out of the open.

There are plenty of ways to avoid getting chewed up by missiles:

1. Utilize AMS - It helps reduce the incomming missiles, if your in a group it will assist your friends too. The more AMS in a group the less missiles get through to target.
2. Utilize terrain, cover, you hear betty telling you incomming, look for cover, back behind high sided hills, believe it or not if you are not being stared at by an enemy mech, even low hills will actually stop a lot of the missiles. This also applies to moving and avoiding the long range direct fire sniping too.
3. Take advantage of ECM when its on your team, it helps to prevent lock on by LRM's.

[-Natural Selection-]

I wish there were stats showing "death by weapon". I am not trying to brag, call out some ones skill, or lack of..

I dwell in the bowels of 12v12 pug life a good amount of the time. I have mechs in every weight class I play frequently. I run AMS on nothing, and play ECM mechs less than 10% of the time. I can honestly say that I die to LRMs "maybe" 1 out of 50 deaths. They are the easiest weapon in the game to avoid.

[CravenMadness]

Quote

Gorthaur wrote:

1) the majority of most teams sit at max LRM range firing at each other most of the game until enough damage is done and one team snowballs.

2) The team I am on is sitting in the back firing LRMs, unwilling to move forward at all, and the enemy team just annihilates us by actually pushing forward.

Heh, is it really that difficult to see why lrms are so popular right now in this high ppc/ac meta? Jump sniping is more difficult, so ppc/ac carries have to expose themselves at one point or another to fire. As soon as an identified sniper/meta carrier exposes themselves, they are locked on and fire is incoming.

What I'm noticing a lot is that targets like to just break L.o.S instead of actually moving sideways, so I still end up landing volleys after they move back behind cover. And don't forget different trajectories as well. Folks might be under cover from one direction's lrms, but a smart lrm crowd will give multiple angles on a target so that -something- hits and they have to frantically decide if they want to stay or move out into more missiles to find better cover.

Perhaps under enough explosive rain, a new sort of player will be forged. ... Maybe one that plays mediums, or brawler type player instead of on that sits back trying to get the first kill through insta-gibbing without exposing themselves to damage.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Pugging ain't 12's. That is just a fact. 12mans are another creature entirely. In 12mans any hot high alpha build good for pugging is bad. Steady and concentrated fire rules there.

LRM's are not OP. But can be good for pugging as ManaValkyrie said anyone outside of ecm and ams is fair game. Tossing lrm's quite often myself. I can say we DO look for that. See alot of AMS change target until you do not. Then pour it on.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 19 November 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[Rebel Roshak]

I dont think LRMS are OP at all.
Just gotta learn how to counter it.

[Zyllos]

Here is the problem, in my opinion:

• LRMs are binary.
  
  • Going up against ECM, LRMs are underpowered.
    
  • Going up against no ECM, LRMs are overpowered.
• LRM spotting requires too little input.
  
  • Just select a target you see, everyone in the game gets to target it.
    
  • TAG/NARC is just used to only get around ECM.
• LRM's poor balance between launcher sizes.
  
  • LRM/5s and LRM/10s are much more efficient in concentrated damage and less use of ammo. This is ignoring their lower weight and critical slot requirements, which is also better.
• No active/passive radar system.
  
  • No ways to pull yourself off the target list with the drawback of not being able to select a target yourself.
• No difference between radar ranges with various mech designs.
  
  • An Atlas is just as good as a Locust in it's radar range.
• No distinction between Indirect and Direct fire LRMs.
  
  • Direct fire should be shorter, lower flight paths, and faster to give players a chance to easily land shots against a target at medium ranges at the cost if inefficiency.
    
  • Indirect fire should be longer, higher flight paths, and slower to give players a chance to hit targets at long range and in some low cover that blocks direct fire weapons at the cost of needed scouting support.

The actual changes needed, in my opinion, requires too much typing for a thread that is not going to be taken seriously by both the community or the developers. But I have typed up such a system before if you want to search through all my posts. But this a good list of problems with the overall locking, target sharing, ECM, and LRM issues.