910 replies to this topic

[PanzerMagier]

I've seen a lot of LRM boats around, true, might be FOTM.
But I only see ignorant noobs getting outwitted by them.
Nothing a decent pilot can't handle.

Some teamwork, a bit of tactics, and any lrm boating team can be out maneuvered.

[Deathlike]

Mudhutwarrior, on 22 December 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Yes, the only people using them to effect are pug stompers. Everyone knows what your unit does. Hence zero respect.

Um, no.

In solo PUG games, where I'm a light mech, placing the UAV in the right place helps the team REGARDLESS of whether or not there are LRM boats on the team. If they take advantage of that, they benefit for taking advantage of the UAV.

The thing is, people don't "learn 2 play" effectively enough to make the most of the info they are given. If you're being fed the info and not doing anything useful with it, then don't blame premades for your lack of understanding.

[Sandpit]

Deathlike, on 22 December 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Um, no.

In solo PUG games, where I'm a light mech, placing the UAV in the right place helps the team REGARDLESS of whether or not there are LRM boats on the team. If they take advantage of that, they benefit for taking advantage of the UAV.

The thing is, people don't "learn 2 play" effectively enough to make the most of the info they are given. If you're being fed the info and not doing anything useful with it, then don't blame premades for your lack of understanding.

This guy gets it. Just wish the select few who don't, did

[Scorpion15]

Advanced Gyros

[Mudhutwarrior]

Deathlike, on 22 December 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Um, no.

In solo PUG games, where I'm a light mech, placing the UAV in the right place helps the team REGARDLESS of whether or not there are LRM boats on the team. If they take advantage of that, they benefit for taking advantage of the UAV.

The thing is, people don't "learn 2 play" effectively enough to make the most of the info they are given. If you're being fed the info and not doing anything useful with it, then don't blame premades for your lack of understanding.

Without instant comms lrms score lower than anything else in pug matches. Very rare to do well and anybody with sense can check dam after and A1's and other variants score poorly. Drones are rarely used to effect also. If your truly pug you know how random it is so stop being dishonest about them. Maybe the fact you have been teaming up with sandpit here on the forums for months indicates your reasoning

LRM's are a command and control weapon and if teams both are running teamspeak they are useless. That is why they are not in top matches. Their only use is in stomping against a keyboard team or someone caught in the open. They don't
break up deathballs. Arty is far more useful for pugs any day. I cringe dropping pug when I see "LRM here" in chat. That means to me that there will be no or little damage there. Maybe just maybe a lite will work with them but thats pretty rare and more often then not they have no clue how to range them to be uselful

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 23 December 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Without instant comms lrms score lower than anything else in pug matches. Very rare to do well and anybody with sense can check dam after and A1's and other variants score poorly. Drones are rarely used to effect also. If your truly pug you know how random it is so stop being dishonest about them. Maybe the fact you have been teaming up with sandpit here on the forums for months indicates your reasoning

LRM's are a command and control weapon and if teams both are running teamspeak they are useless. That is why they are not in top matches. Their only use is in stomping against a keyboard team or someone caught in the open. They don't
break up deathballs. Arty is far more useful for pugs any day. I cringe dropping pug when I see "LRM here" in chat. That means to me that there will be no or little damage there. Maybe just maybe a lite will work with them but thats pretty rare and more often then not they have no clue how to range them to be uselful

True with out a Dedicated spotter LRMs are difficult, Yet, they are good for Padding the old bank account. I had a few matches where I scored under 250 damage but wracked up 5-8 Assists. Missiles (for me) are not about Kills, It's about aiding the team where they need some extra firepower. MY K/D may suffer for the use, but the team prospers... That is more important than my record.

[Lyoto Machida]

Mudhutwarrior, on 23 December 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Without instant comms lrms score lower than anything else in pug matches. Very rare to do well and anybody with sense can check dam after and A1's and other variants score poorly. Drones are rarely used to effect also. If your truly pug you know how random it is so stop being dishonest about them. Maybe the fact you have been teaming up with sandpit here on the forums for months indicates your reasoning

LRM's are a command and control weapon and if teams both are running teamspeak they are useless. That is why they are not in top matches. Their only use is in stomping against a keyboard team or someone caught in the open. They don't
break up deathballs. Arty is far more useful for pugs any day. I cringe dropping pug when I see "LRM here" in chat. That means to me that there will be no or little damage there. Maybe just maybe a lite will work with them but thats pretty rare and more often then not they have no clue how to range them to be uselful

Why do you cringe when you see LRMs in PUGs? That's where they're actually useful.

If people aren't direct firing LRMs with their own TAG from short to mid range, they're doing it wrong...sitting 800m in the rear waiting for locks isn't the way to do it.

LRMs are the easiest to level mechs up with also, it seems.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Lyoto Machida, on 23 December 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Why do you cringe when you see LRMs in PUGs? That's where they're actually useful.

If people aren't direct firing LRMs with their own TAG from short to mid range, they're doing it wrong...sitting 800m in the rear waiting for locks isn't the way to do it.

LRMs are the easiest to level mechs up with also, it seems.

They are useful for premades but in pug rounds they are mostly junk because its rare when one is played well. I pointed out the range issues above. That' s usually what I see. Its rare to get a pilot that can run one solo in pugs and do well. More than often no one will work them or protect them.

Edited by Mudhutwarrior, 23 December 2013 - 03:23 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Mudhutwarrior, on 23 December 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

They are useful for premades but in pug rounds they are mostly junk because its rare when one is played well. I pointed out the range issues above. That' s usually what I see. Its rare to get a pilot that can run one solo in pugs and do well. More than often no one will work them or protect them.

That's because PUGs are playing them 900m out, shooting from the backfield instead of right behind their brawlers...THAT'S the problem in PUGs.

I'm pretty sure my LRM damage is fairly consistent, whether I'm in a 4 man on TS or pugging on my own...will try some LRMs tonight in PUGs and see.

[Varik Ronain]

I pug with LRMs all the time in my A1... granted I have just under 1000 matches in the old girl and have bap, target decay and advanced sensors and I have mostly no issue with getting kills, doing damage or swatting lights on my own. I have no lcue what my elo is.. my KDR is just under 2 and I would guess I am rather average of a player.

The FotM is STILL pop tarts and a great way to counter them is with target decay + lobbing 30-50 LRMs, that is the only time I fire indirect... the spread is so much better with a LoS because of Artemis! Even without a tag you can still smack people in an ecm bubble if they are standing still.

The people who scream about LRMs tend to be the ones who cross open terrain, wander off alone or chasing the shiny aka "chasing that lone light and oblivious to their own surroundings" OR fail to be aware of their own surroundings. Such as on canyon or any map where you can perch behind the enemy while they pop tart at your teammates on the other side of the hill they are camping. The last main one that gripes about LRMs tend to be the dual ac 20 jager who 90% of the time cant keep with with my cat and the xl300 and end up getting dinged to death before they can bring the full force of the ac 20 to bear on that weak defenceless missile boat.

Edited by Varik Ronain, 23 December 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

Sandpit, on 15 December 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

My unit uses them pretty effectively

As does mine. Heck, we pummeled ACES into the dirt with an LRM carrier in the last round of Marik Civil War about a month ago, it was hilarious. Coupled with Artillery and Air Strike, you can do lots of indirect damage if your team is competent with them.

[YueFei]

Mudhutwarrior, on 23 December 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

They are useful for premades but in pug rounds they are mostly junk because its rare when one is played well. I pointed out the range issues above. That' s usually what I see. Its rare to get a pilot that can run one solo in pugs and do well. More than often no one will work them or protect them.

When someone with LRMs says in teamchat at the beginning to "hold targets plz", I cringe. He's asking to sit back safely behind cover while someone else does the work of targeting enemies and risking their neck holding a target and dodging all the enemy fire, so he can do the easy part of locking and firing missiles.

The best LRM users are like Lyoto. They are aggressive in lending their team fire support, and more than willing to risk exposure to enemy fire to help take some heat from their teammates. These kind of guys never ask others to hold targets for them: they seek out and engage their own targets.

The weakness of LRMs is their inability to respond to opponents who are in hard cover. By the time you lock and fire, your opponents are behind tall enough cover. You have to relocate to another spot to get a good angle that bypasses that cover, but to do that you also need teammates to support you, or you risk being isolated.

LRMs are also not a counter to poptarts who know how to shoot at the top of their jump and shutdown in mid-air. I think they should make the shut-down and power-up sequence take longer. That way, at least if you use that jump-up-shoot-then-powerdown trick to avoid an LRM salvo, at least it takes you out of the fight for an extended period of time. As it is now, you shut down instantly, and powering-up again takes only 2 seconds... and you spend 2 of those seconds falling back down anyways.

Edited by YueFei, 23 December 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[Mordin Ashe]

I play both LRM boats and sometimes poptarts. Mostly lights though, but I have huge experience with all the game has to offer, and my conclusion is that LRMs are slightly underpowered by non-LRM mechanics. For example, you need to keep a lock on enemy for roughly 10 seconds which is impossible in current game, there are too many obstacles on some maps, too many LRMs miss fo no real reason, they can't catch lights, ridiculous ECM stacking... Would that be fixed they would be ok, now they are slightly UP.

The effort I need to show to be great with LRMs is much more than what I need with my Ravens, Jenners and uncomparably more than with my poptartish builds. The end.

EDIT: Btw my K/D is over 2.7 from solo drops and once or twice per week I score a game with over 1k damage in all build types I mentoned above, just saying to those monkeys who prefer to attack the player instead of the message.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 23 December 2013 - 11:21 PM.

[Kaijin]

YueFei, on 23 December 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

When someone with LRMs says in teamchat at the beginning to "hold targets plz", I cringe. He's asking to sit back safely behind cover while someone else does the work of targeting enemies and risking their neck holding a target and dodging all the enemy fire, so he can do the easy part of locking and firing missiles.

The best LRM users are like Lyoto. They are aggressive in lending their team fire support, and more than willing to risk exposure to enemy fire to help take some heat from their teammates. These kind of guys never ask others to hold targets for them: they seek out and engage their own targets..

It's advantageous to me to have LOS because I run Artemis with my LRMs, and also, because LRMs are so incredibly slow and come with their very own "incoming missiles" warning, I am closer to the action. So I don't throw my missiles from 800m, but I also don't always have LOS on a target and some other teammate might. So yeah, I tell teammates at the start of the match to lock mechs if they want fire support. Cringe away.

[Sephlock]

Lyoto Machida, on 23 December 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

That's because PUGs are playing them 900m out, shooting from the backfield instead of right behind their brawlers...THAT'S the problem in PUGs.

I'm pretty sure my LRM damage is fairly consistent, whether I'm in a 4 man on TS or pugging on my own...will try some LRMs tonight in PUGs and see.

In fairness, LRM boats can't really rely on randoms to be decent meatshields lancemates, and few things are worse for an LRM boat than getting caught out in the open after your buddy has died.

YueFei, on 23 December 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

When someone with LRMs says in teamchat at the beginning to "hold targets plz", I cringe. He's asking to sit back safely behind cover while someone else does the work of targeting enemies and risking their neck holding a target and dodging all the enemy fire, so he can do the easy part of locking and firing missiles.

On the other hand, he is offering to 2v1 any enemy you engage.

I'm not saying that isn't a part of the mentality for a lot of players, just trying to make lemonade out of lemons .

If nothing else, now that UAVs are more common, someone saying that at the start isn't making quite so unreasonable a request anymore. Just read it as "please pop your uavs near the enemy" .

Quote

The best LRM users are like Lyoto. They are aggressive in lending their team fire support, and more than willing to risk exposure to enemy fire to help take some heat from their teammates. These kind of guys never ask others to hold targets for them: they seek out and engage their own targets.

Agreed.

[YueFei]

Kaijin, on 23 December 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

It's advantageous to me to have LOS because I run Artemis with my LRMs, and also, because LRMs are so incredibly slow and come with their very own "incoming missiles" warning, I am closer to the action. So I don't throw my missiles from 800m, but I also don't always have LOS on a target and some other teammate might. So yeah, I tell teammates at the start of the match to lock mechs if they want fire support. Cringe away.

Heh, I should have said "in general". My experience with most of the players who ask others to lock targets is bad, but it's true that not everyone who asks for people to hold targets is a ninny who sits at 800+ meters lobbing missiles into buildings.

[C91]

As beeing a Scout/Spotter for a LRM-lance from time to time, I gotta say:
yes, LRM's CAN be an overwhelming weapon, especially if you have a good spotter with ECM/BAP + TAG that also looks for enemies who may get to close to your Missile-Mates (which would be my part in that case) ...

but, like I said, they CAN be overwhelming, in most games the LRM-dudes get smoked up in a hurry if they don't check the map. Most guys already get blocked by ECM because they didn't find the 1,5 extra tons for BAP or do JUST have missile on board - just circle around them under 180 metres and they're toast.

Additionally, like many already mentioned, cover is the key + keeping friendly ECM mechs close to you.

[Kaijin]

PanzerMagier, on 22 December 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

I've seen a lot of LRM boats around, true, might be FOTM.
But I only see ignorant noobs getting outwitted by them.
Nothing a decent pilot can't handle.

Some teamwork, a bit of tactics, and any lrm boating team can be out maneuvered.

Or a sprinkling of ECM and AMS equipped mechs on your team. If only those systems worked against all weapon types - then we'd see balance.

[Lyoto Machida]

Just ran my 5 game PUG experiment...too tired to upload the screenshots and detailed data since I'm in the middle of a move and its 4am here. Will prob make a thread tomorrow but the gist of it is 1.6 avg kills 4 avg assists and 529 avg damage by myself in PUGs with no dedicated spotter. XL 360 BLR-1S with 2x15, 2x10, TAG, Artemis and 3ML up at the front line...didn't even really remember to use the MLs (and couldn't anyways because of ghost heat for the most part).

[Mudhutwarrior]

No one is saying they don't work well with a good pilot. They work much better though with a dedicated team and instant comms against those not equipped as well. I mastered Cats and used LRM's to effect in pug matches. Against premades they were most often usless when they were deathballed and one has to wait for the lone mech or breakout to be effective.
Fact remains in general play they are only overpowered when its premades against pugs. Past that they are not worth having except in rare circumstance.