910 replies to this topic

[aseth]

Ending up against dedicated LRM teams is insanely unfun. I look forward to the existence of the Chaff module.

[o0cipher0o]

Kjudoon, on 05 February 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Also, what should make a lot of us LRM fans happy is PGI has announced they will be looking at increasing the speed of LRMs.

Wait, what?When?Where?

In topic, the LRMs are nowhere near a FOTM build. Yeah, if used properly they can be devastating, but there are so many hard counters to them, and they are so situational, that unless ,we see another LURMpocalypse with 90° trajectories, they will stay ok for a looong time.

[Joseph Mallan]

I have to chuckle at all the threads dedicated to complaining about solid effective builds. Missiles have a defined place in a battle, proper use of them should increase a teams probability of victory. Beating your enemy before they can mount a strong counter attack is just combat 101!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 February 2014 - 11:57 AM.

[Kjudoon]

DAYLEET, on 09 February 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

The only problem with LRM is they tend to be played by the same selfishly egomaniac people that play snipers in other games. They are the only killer on the battlefield, they are god and you should die the second they hit you because they want you to die damnit! The other players in their team are their minions, they exist to protect them and tag for them. They forget there can be other goon with them doing the same thing with them.

... uhhh wrong. The attitude that you're projecting is the same one that ultimately proved the obsolesence of the Samurai in Japan during 19th century when guns took hold as the global dominant weapon. It is as flawed today as it was then. A skewed code of honor is no substitute for superior tactics.

Edited by Kjudoon, 09 February 2014 - 11:58 AM.

[YueFei]

Kjudoon, on 09 February 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

... uhhh wrong. The attitude that you're projecting is the same one that ultimately proved the obsolesence of the Samurai in Japan during 19th century when guns took hold as the global dominant weapon. It is as flawed today as it was then. A skewed code of honor is no substitute for superior tactics.

The Samurai used guns themselves. Just saying.

[Kjudoon]

YueFei, on 09 February 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

The Samurai used guns themselves. Just saying.

I'm talking traditionalists really but yes. That was always a point of contention between 'traditionalists' who saw the gun as barbarism versus the 'purity' of a sword or arrow. In relation to this game, it's those who think that the only way to mech is to wade in and engage on mech on mech action point blank. Another more modern attitude of this would be battleship versus aircraft carrier philosophy. LRMs are very much like carriers in that they are force multipliers.

Edited by Kjudoon, 09 February 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[wanderer]

Quote

Ending up against dedicated LRM teams is insanely unfun. I look forward to the existence of the Chaff module.

Dedicated LRM groups prey on impatience. Every map has cover you can advance under, ECM that chokes LRMs at range, spotters you can kill first and then finish off the missile boats after.

I rack up my easiest kills on the frustrated who come straight into the open, get TAG designated, and melt.

I get most kills when my team lures you out of cover and holds you in place to rain missiles on. Again, you're kill hungry and coming right into my ideal situation.

And I barely get triple digit damage in urban maps where cover is plentiful and smart targets easily end up where my launchers get jack and diddly for clean shots, especially with ECM in the equation and being smart enough to engage at medium range.

If I can't lock, that means the missiles do jack-diddly other than straight slow shots at medium-short (300mish) range. There's a reason all-LRM designs are stupid and I frequently have either an ER LL or ML battery for backup. Plenty of maps negate the long game.

Worst case, you troll enemy LRMs. Stick near cover, duck when the warning goes off, laugh as they waste ammo, repeat. The only time an LRM should do you serious harm is when you got caught or pulled into the open, and LRMs eat ammo faster than any weapon in the game. Trust me. He'll run out. Any decent game, I'm going in with the lasers if the timer gets past the nine minute mark- or else my opportunity was so lousy I basically did nothing and you effectively had a man-up the entire time, cause I might as well not fired a shot.

[SI The Joker]

I get caught out of position and pay dearly every now and again... but there's nothing I love more than having someone with 4 15s waste a few salvos on me when I duck back behind some boulder or whatnot when they tag & fire at me.

My only complaint is that some cover really doesn't provide cover... either the collision boxes are off or something... not sure. But seemingly, LRMs do make it through some items in some maps. That's not an LRM issue though, that's a map issue.

Otherwise though, I think LRMs are working quite fine right now.

[Kesslan]

Honestly this game in the past has nerfed LRMs to the point where for a long while I never bothered carrying AMS. AFter the LRM Apocalypse when Artemis was god and people just litterally sat at spawn spitting missiles at each other and things got more balanced I've rarely had an issue with it. I have on occasion gone through waves where I rip out the AMS because LRMs got so nerfed they became useless. Now and then they get tweeked and become a problem again and I just stuff the AMS back in.

Honestly I build every mech expecting to cram in AMS yet I see sooooo many people ditching that 2.5 tons (1.5 AMS + 1 for ammo) and then some complain when they get caught up in it. The real problem is that everyone loads differently and in a pure PUG there is zero consistancy as to how many have ECM or AMS and people rarely stick together. I've been on some PUG Drops though where poeple had a fair bit of AMS, very little to no ECM and we did just fine because we all advanced together and the AMS took care of most of the LRMs to the point it was a minor issue while advancing against the LRM boats, which we made priority targets (Along with any spotters).

On the flip side i've been on the other side of the coin where I seem to be the only person on the team with AMS and up against a team that seems to have 5-6 fielding LRMS and co-ordinated fire. At that point the AMS is near worthless but I've still managed to last quite a while by using cover and keeping on the move. If you can move fast enough the missiles will often miss even if you're out in the open and you're paying attention to the direction the misiles are comming from and move away from the packs. Jumpjets also help as, depending on the arc, you can sometimes jump up right before they land and take hits from fewwer of them. Of course that actually requiring having armour on your legs, something else so many people seem to strip far too low, or even completely. (You wouldn't belive how many mechs, right up to the Atlas I've run into with 0 leg armour).

So really I find the issue is the players that don't mount AMS/ECM, Strip all the armour off their mech to load more guns/ammo, run a slow ass engine, don't use cover and then wonder why they get riped to shreds. Or sometimes it's a player just banking a mech build on the hopes people don't shoot at their legs because I find that's still a pretty uncommon thing to have happen, as I usually die to torso hits, so i cna see why some dual guass/AC 20 builds strip almost all/all armour off legs and hope for the best. Maybe 1/3rd of the time some one will deliberately target your legs but the rest of the time the added speed/ammo will come into play letting you get a few extra kills.

Either way I don't personally see much of an issue with LRMs. And it's almost a non issue in actual premades. Rarely see it used (Up from never used) in 12 man because of just how many counters there are. PUGs are another story.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

wanderer, on 10 February 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

Dedicated LRM groups prey on impatience. Every map has cover you can advance under, ECM that chokes LRMs at range, spotters you can kill first and then finish off the missile boats after.

I rack up my easiest kills on the frustrated who come straight into the open, get TAG designated, and melt.

I get most kills when my team lures you out of cover and holds you in place to rain missiles on. Again, you're kill hungry and coming right into my ideal situation.

And I barely get triple digit damage in urban maps where cover is plentiful and smart targets easily end up where my launchers get jack and diddly for clean shots, especially with ECM in the equation and being smart enough to engage at medium range.

If I can't lock, that means the missiles do jack-diddly other than straight slow shots at medium-short (300mish) range. There's a reason all-LRM designs are stupid and I frequently have either an ER LL or ML battery for backup. Plenty of maps negate the long game.

Worst case, you troll enemy LRMs. Stick near cover, duck when the warning goes off, laugh as they waste ammo, repeat. The only time an LRM should do you serious harm is when you got caught or pulled into the open, and LRMs eat ammo faster than any weapon in the game. Trust me. He'll run out. Any decent game, I'm going in with the lasers if the timer gets past the nine minute mark- or else my opportunity was so lousy I basically did nothing and you effectively had a man-up the entire time, cause I might as well not fired a shot.

This is the most accurate assesment of LRM's I've seen.

I get tired of people who die due to LRM's proclaiming their greatness.

You died, because you made a mistake.

It's not like PPC/Autocannon's where you stick out a body part for a second and it gets shot off.

If you are getting killed by LRM's, you have put yourself in a bad position and stayed there for 5-8 seconds. Then continued to stay there, each time the LRM's hit you.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 10 February 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Ngamok]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 10 February 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

This is the most accurate assesment of LRM's I've seen.

I get tired of people who die due to LRM's proclaiming their greatness.

You died, because you made a mistake.

It's not like PPC/Autocannon's where you stick out a body part for a second and it gets shot off.

If you are getting killed by LRM's, you have put yourself in a bad position and stayed there for 5-8 seconds. Then continued to stay there, each time the LRM's hit you.

And no LRM boat will sit in the open firing LRMs at somebody and not expect return fire. An accurate pilot will kill an LRM boat with PPC, AC, Laser fire faster than the LRM boat will with missiles. That's why there are trade off that way.

And to Colonel Meltus running his STK-3F(C) saying he is getting 800 damage a match. When I see them in the field I laugh to myself thinking buddy, I am about to take off your torso.

[wanderer]

Ngamok, on 10 February 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

And no LRM boat will sit in the open firing LRMs at somebody and not expect return fire. An accurate pilot will kill an LRM boat with PPC, AC, Laser fire faster than the LRM boat will with missiles. That's why there are trade off that way.

And to Colonel Meltus running his STK-3F© saying he is getting 800 damage a match. When I see them in the field I laugh to myself thinking buddy, I am about to take off your torso.

Of course you will. That's why I parked that Stalker behind every bit of cover I could and still get a firing solution. Mind you, that TAG-designated set of missiles does sting pretty harshly in those things, but the only reason I was direct-firing with that fragile XL is if I had team-mates tying up my target and minimal exposure to other lanes of fire.

If the Trial Stalker is in the open, it's doing things wrong. The only time it should be is moving from cover to cover, firing to keep people's heads down all the while. But most people in that Trial are newbies who don't understand cover, LRM fire, ghost heat, or a lot of the nuances of combat.

That makes them instant, easy target practice.

[KharnZor]

Ngamok, on 10 February 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

And to Colonel Meltus running his STK-3F© saying he is getting 800 damage a match. When I see them in the field I laugh to myself thinking buddy, I am about to take off your torso.

Last time i saw him he ran away from me right into my entire team. I so badly wanted to play

[ColonelMetus]

KharnZor, on 10 February 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Last time i saw him he ran away from me right into my entire team. I so badly wanted to play

KharnZor, on 10 February 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Last time i saw him he ran away from me right into my entire team. I so badly wanted to play

sounds like some kind of propaganda

[ColonelMetus]

LRM ignores most of the cover in the game,

[Joseph Mallan]

If you are using it wrong Col.Cover from missiles has to be a good bit taller than your Mech to be effective... and sometimes, missiles will rain through complete overhead cove. Not often, but enough to twist my jimmies.

[Cimarb]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 February 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

If you are using it wrong Col.Cover from missiles has to be a good bit taller than your Mech to be effective... and sometimes, missiles will rain through complete overhead cove. Not often, but enough to twist my jimmies.

Having several LRMS boats myself, I would say cover is more effective than not. I'm immensely tired of my LRM volley getting demolished by antennas, rocks that are far bigger than they look, and wires, bars, etc that are all over the place and swatting my missiles down better than any AMS ever created...

[KharnZor]

ColonelMetus, on 10 February 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

sounds like some kind of propaganda

I had shadowplay on at the time but name and shame.......and its pretty shameful

[ColonelMetus]

its about time to give every mech ECM or access to double AMS and some tripple AMS or nerf lrms

[KharnZor]

OR you could learn how to play the game.