910 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

There was a reason I wrote up this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...use/page__st__0

Some of it is outdated, but most of that thread is still very much relevant. (Careful if you read, it's a little long...)

[KharnZor]

KnowBuddy, on 24 February 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

Again, there is no issue, the OP is from November of last year, and the game has not erupted into LRM furballs, it's still PPC+AC5 jump and peek till the logger'Mechs come home.

This thread has been on page one since november. The OP is clueless about the topic. Frankly it belongs in K town where we can all eat cake and have a good giggle at the stupidity of it all.

[Kjudoon]

Somebody has a problem with longrunning threads that don't apply to him or has occasionally good discussion and kvetching.

[Lyoto Machida]

wanderer, on 24 February 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

To give people an idea- if there's three AMS systems in the line of fire of my 'Phract-2X, I won't deal significant damage.

With two LRM 15 racks. Group fired.

Tested repeatedly and deliberately. One dual-AMS that gets to track a flight as it passes by will shred my salvo to bits, a third AMS will reduce it to a few minor love taps.

A lance that invests in 1.5 tons of AMS + ammo will neutralize me until and if they run out of ammo- and that's not even taking the usual LRM stoppers (terrain, ECM, loss of LOS) into account. I hit with about 25% of my shots as it is- and that's just assuming at least one missile makes it to target.

25%...you can do better than that if you work at it. I'm hoping to get to 40% one day with my LRM-15s (my most used LRM launcher). Positioning is a lot of it...I'm never firing from 900m away.

LRM 15 423 306,366 115,456 37.69% 1 day 17:20:17 117,386

KharnZor, on 24 February 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

This thread has been on page one since november. The OP is clueless about the topic. Frankly it belongs in K town where we can all eat cake and have a good giggle at the stupidity of it all.

Have you seen his other threads? He could just be trolling with a Phoenix package badge...

[Kjudoon]

Lyoto Machida, on 24 February 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

25%...you can do better than that if you work at it. I'm hoping to get to 40% one day with my LRM-15s (my most used LRM launcher). Positioning is a lot of it...I'm never firing from 900m away.

Nothing wrong with firing at 900m. No you're not going to get over the 25-35% hump that seems to be the goal of PGI on hit accuracy for LRMs since you are not able to improve grouping or aim since it's all automated. No, the challenge is both in finding good firing solutions, getting locks, holding locks and shephearding those missiles in to target even when you do start taking fire because you had no good solutions from behind cover. Firing at that range can also expose other AMS targets who are hiding or under ECM as their system autofires. You keep wounded enemy AND lighter mechs behind cover because they don't know if 5 or 105 missiles are coming in from one or many targets. It's the one thing I HATE about Oxides and Streakboats. My missile warning goes berzerk.

Also, there's nothing funnier than watching that poor ****** trying to run for cover on Tourmaline with your missiles raining down on him only to have him explode just meters shy of breaking lock at 980m away... then 3 more salvos come in to desecrate the body.

[KharnZor]

Kjudoon, on 24 February 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Somebody has a problem with longrunning threads that don't apply to him or has occasionally good discussion and kvetching.

Nope, i got a problem with idiots who get killed by ANY given weapon then come on the forums to make QQ threads because they cant figure out how to play the game.
now, get back in your corner.

Lyoto Machida, on 24 February 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Have you seen his other threads? He could just be trolling with a Phoenix package badge...

Yep seen his other threads. OP is clueless.

[Lyoto Machida]

Kjudoon, on 24 February 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Nothing wrong with firing at 900m. No you're not going to get over the 25-35% hump that seems to be the goal of PGI on hit accuracy for LRMs since you are not able to improve grouping or aim since it's all automated. No, the challenge is both in finding good firing solutions, getting locks, holding locks and shephearding those missiles in to target even when you do start taking fire because you had no good solutions from behind cover. Firing at that range can also expose other AMS targets who are hiding or under ECM as their system autofires. You keep wounded enemy AND lighter mechs behind cover because they don't know if 5 or 105 missiles are coming in from one or many targets. It's the one thing I HATE about Oxides and Streakboats. My missile warning goes berzerk.

Also, there's nothing funnier than watching that poor ****** trying to run for cover on Tourmaline with your missiles raining down on him only to have him explode just meters shy of breaking lock at 980m away... then 3 more salvos come in to desecrate the body.

The best way to get max damage with LRMs is to use them as MRMs...firing at 900m requires working with someone else. If I'm working with someone else, I'm probably in a 12 man and probably shouldn't be bringing LRMs anyways for the most part. Or I'm in a 4 man but I don't usually want to burden my guys with holding locks for me (unless it comes as a side effect of them already brawling with someone).

In PUGs, I don't expect ANY locks to hold, so I do it myself from close range...AKA "brawling" with them.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with firing from 900m away but it's not the greatest strategy if you're going for maximum efficiency...

[Tesunie]

Lyoto Machida, on 24 February 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

Sure, there's nothing wrong with firing from 900m away but it's not the greatest strategy if you're going for maximum efficiency...

There are times though when you do shoot at 900m (or farther) range, knowing you are going to miss, just to help push that enemy behind cover. (Really good when you know you have a friend in trouble, and you help "scare" them away with an LRM warning...)

But, there is of course more efficient uses for LRMs. Like scouting for AMS units behind that hill... (Joking.)

[wanderer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 24 February 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

On top of all that, you can literally make no defensive manuvers while using LRM's. You have to stare at your opponent and worst case keep TAG on them to keep ECM from breaking lock.

Which means no torso twisting or anything.

This isn't quite correct, but you need an arm-mounted TAG to get away with it- which lets you paint and keep the torso turned away from the target. Makes the Griffin a nice LRM chucker, between a generous twist angle and big shield arms that can absorb most hits that would score on the torso otherwise. The classic LRM boat, the Catapult tends to suffer a bit thanks to having no such option, as do any 'Mechs that lack lower arm actuators or poor torso twisting.

[wanderer]

Tesunie, on 24 February 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

There are times though when you do shoot at 900m (or farther) range, knowing you are going to miss, just to help push that enemy behind cover. (Really good when you know you have a friend in trouble, and you help "scare" them away with an LRM warning...)

But, there is of course more efficient uses for LRMs. Like scouting for AMS units behind that hill... (Joking.)

Heh. LRMs are one of those weapons I'll actually "waste" shots for purposes OTHER than expecting a hit- in part why the 25% accuracy. 900m shots are "hail mary" firing specifically to keep people looking for cover rather than damaging them. Most damaging fire from LRMs are in that 450ish range or closer, and optimum for a "long range" missile is parked right behind the direct fire- either just over the back side of a hill to protect yourself, or with enough distraction a few meters back in the open for the "sweet shot" of TAG + Artemis.

[Navy Sixes]

aseth, on 09 February 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

Ending up against dedicated LRM teams is insanely unfun. I look forward to the existence of the Chaff module.

Only if they're good. Dropped into the PUG last night with a prem lance of LRM Stalkers. They just stood in the back and complained that no one was holding locks while the "screw ups" in Charlie were up front getting pulverized. I'm of the opinion that, unless you've brought a spotter and/or built to do something besides prowl the backfield and push "r," missile-boat assaults are a waste of mech.

Before everyone gets in a tissy, note that 1) I said "if they're good." If you and your squad are pulling your weight, disregard. 2) I didn't say assaults should never boat missiles (what else are you gonna do with that Awesome? Pack PPCs? ) I said they shouldn't be so specialized they have nothing else to offer. Finally, 3) there are always exceptions that make the rule.

[Lyoto Machida]

Tesunie, on 24 February 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

There are times though when you do shoot at 900m (or farther) range, knowing you are going to miss, just to help push that enemy behind cover. (Really good when you know you have a friend in trouble, and you help "scare" them away with an LRM warning...)

But, there is of course more efficient uses for LRMs. Like scouting for AMS units behind that hill... (Joking.)

wanderer, on 24 February 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

Heh. LRMs are one of those weapons I'll actually "waste" shots for purposes OTHER than expecting a hit- in part why the 25% accuracy. 900m shots are "hail mary" firing specifically to keep people looking for cover rather than damaging them. Most damaging fire from LRMs are in that 450ish range or closer, and optimum for a "long range" missile is parked right behind the direct fire- either just over the back side of a hill to protect yourself, or with enough distraction a few meters back in the open for the "sweet shot" of TAG + Artemis.

Call me a miser but I hate doing that with anything bigger than an LRM5 lol...I'll shoot off a random 15 here and there to keep heads down from time to time or draw out AMS.

I still think only AMS equipped mechs should get the AMS warning...either that or give us better direct fire options when dumb-firing LRMs (flatter angle/more speed).

[Tesunie]

Lyoto Machida, on 24 February 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

Call me a miser but I hate doing that with anything bigger than an LRM5 lol...I'll shoot off a random 15 here and there to keep heads down from time to time or draw out AMS.

I still think only AMS equipped mechs should get the AMS warning...either that or give us better direct fire options when dumb-firing LRMs (flatter angle/more speed).

I disagree on the missile warning part, but I can agree with better "options". I personally would like it if the LRMs where smarter with the "shoot up when indirect fire, shoot forwards for direct line of sight fire". I keep having it shoot straight (into a hill/wall/terrain) when I don't have line of sight, and straight up into a ceiling when I do have line of sight. Lose so many missiles that way...

[Cimarb]

Tesunie, on 24 February 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

I disagree on the missile warning part, but I can agree with better "options". I personally would like it if the LRMs where smarter with the "shoot up when indirect fire, shoot forwards for direct line of sight fire". I keep having it shoot straight (into a hill/wall/terrain) when I don't have line of sight, and straight up into a ceiling when I do have line of sight. Lose so many missiles that way...

It's based on range, not (in)direct. I'm not sure the exact range it changes, but roughly 2-300 I would guess.

[Tesunie]

Cimarb, on 24 February 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

It's based on range, not (in)direct. I'm not sure the exact range it changes, but roughly 2-300 I would guess.

Thing is, when it was added into missile flight paths, they made it a point to say that they travel higher for indirect, and lower/straighter for direct fire. That has not been the behavior I have been seeing in the game. What I see in the game is the system you describe, where around 250m it seems to start shooting very low and straight.

http://mwomercs.com/...pdate-feedback/

They deleted the actual post describing it, leaving just the feedback thread. Sorta explains it, but I guess it wasn't what I thought they were trying to do. It's on the other end of the flight path that changes when indirect...

[Cimarb]

Tesunie, on 24 February 2014 - 09:41 PM, said:

Thing is, when it was added into missile flight paths, they made it a point to say that they travel higher for indirect, and lower/straighter for direct fire. That has not been the behavior I have been seeing in the game. What I see in the game is the system you describe, where around 250m it seems to start shooting very low and straight.

http://mwomercs.com/...pdate-feedback/

They deleted the actual post describing it, leaving just the feedback thread. Sorta explains it, but I guess it wasn't what I thought they were trying to do. It's on the other end of the flight path that changes when indirect...

I completely agree - you should be able to toggle it or it depend on whether you have line of sight.

[KnowBuddy]

Cimarb, on 25 February 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

I completely agree - you should be able to toggle it or it depend on whether you have line of sight.

I'd settle for a TAG toggle.

[Cimarb]

KnowBuddy, on 25 February 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

I'd settle for a TAG toggle.

Just bind it to your non-cycled weapon groups. I usually bind it to my middle mouse button for "sneak tagging" as well as group 4, which I always put my missile systems on, and it works great.

[KnowBuddy]

Cimarb, on 25 February 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

Just bind it to your non-cycled weapon groups. I usually bind it to my middle mouse button for "sneak tagging" as well as group 4, which I always put my missile systems on, and it works great.

Oh, I do, absolutely. It works, but I wouldn't use the word "great." Not the point, it really should be toggle-able.

[Tesunie]

I try to find weapons that share the same range as TAG, and find the AC5 or a Large Laser pair up nicely with it. Then, I toss TAG into that weapon group, as well as on the missile group (and all other weapon groups too, but I only have a 2 button mouse, so I don't do more than 2 weapon groups). This way, whenever I fire a weapon, TAG goes off. It doesn't cause any heat, and doesn't hurt to shoot it into a wall.

Though, I wouldn't mind a toggle either, as long as I can still have it as a weapon group as well...