910 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

TAG works just fine inside 180m- but your LRMs won't, nor can you transmit spotting data.

Beagle, TAG, Artemis. Three things no LRM carrier should be without.

[KnowBuddy]

wanderer, on 07 March 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

TAG works just fine inside 180m- but your LRMs won't, nor can you transmit spotting data.

TAG - Artemis - Beagle. Three things no LRM carrier should be without.

FTFY

[Tesunie]

wanderer, on 07 March 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

TAG works just fine inside 180m- but your LRMs won't, nor can you transmit spotting data.

Beagle, TAG, Artemis. Three things no LRM carrier should be without.

TAG works under 180m, unless you are inside an ECM bubble, then TAG does nothing. About the only note I'd like to add.

(Oh, and an LRM mech doesn't need Artemis, BAP and TAG to work. Many of my designs don't have any of them. However, I complement my LRMs with other weapons, so I'm not useless if the fight gets close or there is ECM abound. TAG is probably the most helpful gear an LRM mech can take, to cut through the ECM. Beyond that, Artemis is a great idea, and BAP can be very useful.)

[Kjudoon]

wanderer, on 07 March 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

TAG works just fine inside 180m- but your LRMs won't, nor can you transmit spotting data.

Beagle, TAG, Artemis. Three things no LRM carrier should be without.

AKA it doesn't work. If you can't use it to spot and fire on a target, it doesn't work. I've had many matches where the tag was on an ECM target inside that range and it refused to even register. I was told by devs it was "supposed" to work that way.

:headdesk:

[Lyoto Machida]

Tesunie, on 07 March 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

TAG works under 180m, unless you are inside an ECM bubble, then TAG does nothing. About the only note I'd like to add.

(Oh, and an LRM mech doesn't need Artemis, BAP and TAG to work. Many of my designs don't have any of them. However, I complement my LRMs with other weapons, so I'm not useless if the fight gets close or there is ECM abound. TAG is probably the most helpful gear an LRM mech can take, to cut through the ECM. Beyond that, Artemis is a great idea, and BAP can be very useful.)

No, an LRM mech doesn't NEED Artemis, BAP and TAG to work but you could make the same argument that a 2x PPC carrier doesn't need extra heat sinks to work (but they'll improve the mech's effectiveness).

[Kjudoon]

Lyoto Machida, on 07 March 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

No, an LRM mech doesn't NEED Artemis, BAP and TAG to work but you could make the same argument that a 2x PPC carrier doesn't need extra heat sinks to work (but they'll improve the mech's effectiveness).

Not quite equivalent... but I see where you're going. Even LRMs need Heatsinks, and big ones need more. I can overheat with LRMs pretty easy if I do not watch my fire when launching salvos of 30+ or using LRMs and long range direct fire.

But if you want to get hit ratios above 20%, you probably want Artemis, TAG and BAP. Then you can get into the 30-35% hit range.

[Tesunie]

Kjudoon, on 07 March 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

Not quite equivalent... but I see where you're going. Even LRMs need Heatsinks, and big ones need more. I can overheat with LRMs pretty easy if I do not watch my fire when launching salvos of 30+ or using LRMs and long range direct fire.

But if you want to get hit ratios above 20%, you probably want Artemis, TAG and BAP. Then you can get into the 30-35% hit range.

I was getting a 33% hit ratio before I started to use Artemis. I haven't yet seen the ratio go up yet. I also have some mechs that also use TAG now, but I haven't seen overly too much extra improvement (besides the ability to cut through ECM when I have direct line of sight).

Some of this will depend upon what you want your mech to do. I don't focus on just LRMs. I have some mechs that is supported by their LRMs. Other mechs are LRM heavy with some support defensive weapons. Other mechs are gears even more to use the LRMs.

Here is my opinion of LRMs and upgrades to them:
- Normal runs fairly well. You can use them "right out of the box" and get decent results.
- Artemis is optional, as it will help speed up locks and improve overall LRM function to some degree. I find personally that it isn't a large bonus for it's weight at times, but it is a bonus that is worth checking out.
- TAG is a nice bonus, but sometimes it is more worth it to have an extra defensive/offensive weapon in that energy slot. If you are going real heavy on the LRMs, take the TAG. You'll need it. If you aren't, then it might not necessarily be worth it.
- BAP is extremely situational. If you are a boat, you should probably take it. However, even with BAP, your locks will still be disrupted by ECM when an ECM mech gets close. ECM starts to jam at 180m range (might be wrong here), and BAP starts to jam it at 120m range (might be wrong here too, but you get the point). If you have mechs that can fend of ECM lights when they get close, you may or may not need BAP. That could be a ton of ammo there, or a heat sink, or maybe even a med laser...



Really, a lot of it will depend upon what you expect to get out of your mech (and what your team brings in, if you are going in with a team).

Here are some examples of what I am talking about:
Stalker 3F: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1b0fed418ebb28e
Yes, I have 8 tons of LRM ammo, but I can function fairly well in closer fights. I don't need TAG (and work on a two button mouse, so I can't have it in it's own weapon group, and I have no weapons that complement it's range). I have 4 med lasers for close defense and 2 SSRM2s for light duty. The BAP is there for the SSRMs, as well as the Artemis control. (The design's intent is to actually guard other LRM mechs, while still being able to place some damage at the same time. Hence the LRMs.)

Shadowhawk 2H: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f9634c0c93c9903
This mech is designed to use the LRMs as a main weapon. It's got TAG to help land missiles, even with ECM being present. I don't feel the need for BAP, as I am intended to stay out of range of ECM. Even if ECM does come, I'm depending upon my speed to help me escape it, my team, or my AC5 to deal with the threat. The AC5 shares a very similar profile as the TAG, making the two complement each other in their use. However, between the AC and LRMs, I did not have enough tonnage to place Artemis into the design (currently), but I do not feel I have any problems from the lack of Artemis. (Designed to engage in direct long range combat, of my own flare.)

Hunchback 4SP: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bb0bc827b009caf
This mech has no artemis or TAG (considering upgrading it to Artemis LRM10 launchers since the tube changes), but can preform well in close combat when needed with the 4 lasers. I often have used the LRMs while I move into laser ranges. LRMs often help me to dictate how I engage the enemy, as if there are too many or a target I don't want to get close to, I can use my LRMs. If they have ECM, I can close in and use my lasers to good effect. Has worked well for me since I first started playing this game (over a year ago). Still has not lost it's effectiveness though the patches...

Raven 4X: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...98482fb6aa1c943
This mech is not designed like your typical light mech, it's a carrion bird! It's been designed to create openings in armor from afar, supporting the team and working fluidly within any team (even in PUGs) for the most part. Once an opening is found in a target, I rush in and take that section from them with the MGs and Med Lasers. Then, retreat back into friendly lines till another opportunity is available. This mech is designed to be careful and patient. The LRMs are to provide support and damage while I wait for the end game, where I can help kill or main targets. It isn't designed as a heavy LRM mech, nor is it a scout. It does have Artemis, but no TAG or BAP, as the LRMs are not designed to be it's main damage dealer. (It's a carrion eater. It waits and feasts on the dead and dieing.)

Quickdraw 4H: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ffaae0c739ed624
Designed as a form of missile support, and not intended to really see targets. However, tends to run like my Hunchback 4SP. It's one of my best mechs by stats so far. It does have Artemis, but no TAG as I needed that slot for it's 4 med laser defensive array. BAP not really needed, as the lasers can handle most targets that get that close...


I shall admit, none of these are LRM boats, but all of them use LRMs. Some have a designed role that is better suited to not having certain equipment, others have all the gear suggested. It's dependent upon the role you wish for your mech to preform while in combat. Many of my mechs have balanced loadouts, and several are designed to protect my team more than to charge into the enemy (aka: made to kill, or overly specialized). Some have none of the upgrades even, and they still tend to work fine.

[ColonelMetus]

they should buff ams or ecm

[Tesunie]

ColonelMetus, on 16 March 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

they should buff ams or ecm

May I ask, why have you come to this conclusion? Or rather, how did you come to this conclusion?

ECM already does more than it should, though I don't overly mind it right now either...

I'm just genuinely curious why we need to have more counters (stronger counters) to LRMs, the only weapon system with counters to it, and a system that, by many, is considered to be one of the weakest weapons in the game...

(PS: Take the AMS weapon upgrade module... There is your upgrade to AMS.)

[Joseph Mallan]

ColonelMetus, on 16 March 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

they should buff ams or ecm

Nope. Nope. Nope.

[Ngamok]

LOL, this guy just takes shots in the dark on stuff. Look at his latest thread about Gauss.

[Cimarb]

Ngamok, on 17 March 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

LOL, this guy just takes shots in the dark on stuff. Look at his latest thread about Gauss.

And he is actually quite good at it, since he has kept this thread going for WAAAAAAAAAYY longer than it should ever possibly have been...

[Ngamok]

Well TBH, some people keep feeding it. Like me.

[KharnZor]

Ngamok, on 17 March 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Well TBH, some people keep feeding it. Like me.

stop it then lol

[Kjudoon]

You.... you too much...



You no feed. You go now! Been here 4 hour! You make wife cry!

[ColonelMetus]

this is a forum about imbalances with LRM's please dont spam it with meaningly gifs and photos of trolls (or is that ur mom? LOL!)

[Tesunie]

ColonelMetus, on 17 March 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

this is a forum about imbalances with LRM's please dont spam it with meaningly gifs and photos of trolls (or is that ur mom? LOL!)

I thought this was a thread posting how overpowered LRMs are, among other things...

[KnowBuddy]

[Kjudoon]

ColonelMetus, on 17 March 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

this is a forum about imbalances with LRM's please dont spam it with meaningly gifs and photos of trolls (or is that ur mom? LOL!)

Troll posts deserve pictures not serious discussion.



See what I derped there?

Edited by Kjudoon, 17 March 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[ColonelMetus]

now that the 2nd LRMPOCOLYPSE is upon us everyone will turn to this post and go "that guy.... he predicted all this"