116 replies to this topic

[Marauder3D]

After having a fantastic experience mastering out my Shadow Hawks, I realized something about the upcoming Saber Pack: Griffins focus exclusively on missles and energy weapons. So they are basically a jumping Kintaro with less missle hardpoints.

The current meta emphasizes the low(ish) heat AC family of weapons with high DPS. The Shadow Hawk and Wolverine (6R at least) can both take advantage of multiple ACs on the gun mount. Unfortunately, this leaves the Griffin out in the cold.

Neither the Griffin 1N, nor the 1S or 3M, have any ballistic hardpoints in canon. I've been looking forward to the Saber pack--don't get me wrong. It just occurred to me that the playstyle forced by missle/energy boats is totally different than the current "hose enemy down with AC fire" meta.

Anyone have any thoughts or potential builds for the Griffin to get around this limitation?

Cheers!

[NRP]

The Saber mechs do indeed look underwhelming.

[Bront]

The Wolverine looks fun. The Griffin, not so much. Particularly the phoenix model with every hardpoint on the (left?) side of the mech.

They can't all be meta released mechs, and if they ever do balance everything (and we are balanced better than we were a few months ago, though far from "balanced"), the Meta part won't be an issue.

[Wintersdark]

I don't really care about the current meta. It changes all the time; so the "underwhelming" Griffon may well be the superstar after the next set of balance changes. *shrugs*

I want my mechs to be completely different. I absolutely do not want them all to conform to the current meta, because that could well mean that they all suck later. Having a diverse stable of mechs means you're able to handle whatever new changes happen along.

[CyclonerM]

Forget the stravag meta and play your game!

[Doc Andrews]

Marauder3D, on 10 November 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

The current meta emphasizes the low(ish) heat AC family of weapons with high DPS. The Shadow Hawk and Wolverine (6R at least) can both take advantage of multiple ACs on the gun mount. Unfortunately, this leaves the Griffin out in the cold.

The GRF-1 can run the same fairly annoying fast LRM build that the other 55 tonners (and even the QKD at 60) can run: Artem. LRM 30 with TAG, a jump jet, a max (tweaked) speed of over 100KPH, and 7 tons of ammo (remember to drop the arm armor of the 'dead' arm). It's a big investment, since you need Art, FF, Endo, and DHS. But there are likely places in CW for those kinds of builds, and you can do well in PUG's with them to boot.

Now flip tha tbuild on it's head. not a lot of crits left after all that... but SSRM's are good. Art. helps them too, with NO additional weight/crit issues. So now you have 3 SSRMs and a couple efficient critical lasers or PPC's. Not bad. Remember to torso twist.

The other two variants? Umm... I'll look into it?

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Bront, on 10 November 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

The Wolverine looks fun.

I just wish this leads the Dev's to eventually include the Wolverine_IIC Conjurer HellHound, MW4 remake for the Clans

That was my hands down all time favorite Clan Medium design

[Hellzero]

A good point, but just as with Victor, as it came out: "It's few weapon slots might turn out to be its greatest advantage"; heat or no heat.
- The PPCs are a tough ball to play with by definition(of right now), that included with "just LRMs", you're looking to throw that mech around and fast, if you want to keep up with the pace of other machines. However, it can sit out as long from its targets as it wants, and that's when it gets interesting.

I don't think we'll get a chance to get 2 PPCs in one hand, however I do think the Standard Engine can be upgraded to higher grades with extra armor/heatsinks just by changing to FF/DHS/ES well enough. Not to mention the JJs, but I hope they would do certain "maneuvering treats on the Griffin", as the name says.
- Be it in the form of JJ movement/behavior(yeah, I can wish) or in the form of how the mech behaves. What I will most likely see though, out of the box, is that it'll be along the lines of Victor:

Something that isn't everyone's cup of tea, and that's something that appeals to me the most.

Edited by Hellzero, 10 November 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[Marauder3D]

To further clarify: the Griffin would be more appealing if SRMs were functioning properly. Large laser and 3 SRM 6 could be fun. A cent with JJs.

With SRMs having buggy hit detection and LRMs being the least appealing playstyle for me, I could work with the Wolvie but the Griffin looks harder to outfit for my tastes.

[Lord Ikka]

Since all the Griffin's weapons are on the right side, there will be no penalty for putting in an XL engine and putting in as many weapons as you can.

I do agree with Marauder3D though, having the hit detection fixes on SRMs would really make the Griffin shine. Example GRF-1N

But even if you don't put SRMs in it, I think it will be a decent, if not dominating, choice for a Medium. Might not have all the hardpoints I'd want, but I don't think it is DOA.

[Hexenhammer]

Just go XL and get it over with.

Edited by Hexenhammer, 10 November 2013 - 07:03 PM.

[Durant Carlyle]

I had some fun with the Shadow Hawk -- it's the first medium I can stand spending any time in. However, I'm REALLY looking forward to the Griffin. It combines speed, mobility, and an energy/missile loadout that's more my style. Kintaro doesn't jump, and Shadow Hawk focuses on ballistics.

Saber wasn't meant to be a meta pack. It was meant to be a pack of the Unseen. For me, non-meta doesn't mean bad, it means I kick your butt from the cockpit of a 'Mech that doesn't have ballistics.

[627]

Meta meta meta... the Jester is all energy, don't even has missiles and is fun and can be dangerous.

So why not put the zombie cent in a bigger chassis?
GRF-1N
3xML, 3x ASRM6, XL300, 14DHS, 6 JJ

For me this promises fun

Edited by 627, 13 November 2013 - 10:46 PM.

[Biruke]

627, on 13 November 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

Meta meta meta... the Jester is all energy, don't even has missiles and is fun and can be dangerous.

So why not put the zombie cent in a bigger chassis?
GRF-1N
3xML, 3x ASRM6, XL300, 14DHS, 6 JJ

For me this promises fun

The only location you should be shooting at in a Griffin is its right torso.

[Durant Carlyle]

...for the Phoenix variant, yes. The others will have weapons in the left torso as well.

[Modo44]

Is this really still not obvious to people? You pay real money for early access and increased income/XP/loyalty, not for superior mechs.

[627]

Biruke, on 13 November 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

The only location you should be shooting at in a Griffin is its right torso.

Sure, but lets wait for the ingame model. Let's see how big the hitboxes will be and how useful that arm shield really is.

[Hammerhai]

@ Modo44: As a statistic: I run the X 5 as a C Bill Grinder, and compared the effectiveness in terms of that to average player C Bill earnings as posted by PGI at one time. (Ie I multiplied roughly 81K (?) by 1.3 to get expected average earnings for a Hero

Turns out that on average my X 5 earns 31% LESS than it should, all things being equal or "average" statistically. Just from feel my Impression is I had the same Problem with my Flame, whereas my Jenner earnings seem to be on par for an ELO within the first standard deviation. (Guessed). Which at the least might mean that skill and experience are far more important to earnings than running a Phoenix or Founder or Hero.

So think about it

Edited by Hammerhai, 14 November 2013 - 12:37 AM.

[Modo44]

You ignore my point about early access, which is what the Phoenix/Saber package is mostly about. You also reinforce my "not superior mechs" point by comparing the results of hero variants of bad chassis with Cbill variants of good chassis. So think about it.

[xengk]

Im thinking of either running a 2x PPC poptart with 3x SSRM2 or a 3x LRM10 and 3x MLaz fast LRMboat.