101 replies to this topic

[Curccu]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 November 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Cause in all of the Canon Universe >5 Pilots could Jump and fire weapons at the same time.

Well every pilot in MWO universe can't Jump and fire weapons either, there is just plenty of pilots here that are little better than those Canon Universe noob pilots.

[Sandpit]

Whoah, I take ONE night off to watch some movies and this is what happens. I swear, I can't leave you kids alone for one minute.

Really? This is an actual suggestion? So instead of just saying "Nerf or Remove Poptarting" (which is what you're really wanting anyhow) you suggest it like this....

Derp idea is derp idea.

So you can't hit the JJs to do a quick facing change and shoot that squirrel tearing your rear armor up now?

Oh, I added it to my list Road, don't worry lol

[Flying Judgement]

ummm this wont help
I know lot of ppl love playing in mediums bechause of jump fighting ! not Sniping ! thats why i cant wait for the griffin and wolverine so i can have a better flying mech Shake Ghost heat i dont care but not able to fire when in the air is a reason to stop playing the game its one of the most fun and adrenalin pumped play stile and one of the hardest.

u know what add ghost heat for 2 PPC + any AC thats fair
or one cant fire PPC or AC20 in air
they are huge weapons with big recoil so they could spin around the mech in the air
not abel to use small lasers or any lasers pulses SRMs or an Ac2 or 5
it would just kill the best fun from the game :\

and i would have to change name to Funny Bunny

[DaZur]

King Arthur IV, on 12 November 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

if you got hit once by a jump sniper, fine.
if you got hit a second time, ok maybe you didnt see it the first time.
if you get hit a 3rd time, wtf...... move your steel buns and stop trying to fight against it. flank them and over run them.

QTF!

This appears to a be growing trend as of late. Pilots who go stationery and and play "turret" and have virtually zero appreciation for making themselves a difficult target.

XX Sulla XX, on 13 November 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Seems like a terrible idea. You take away something used without a problem for the majority of players in most games to address a small problem that only effects a minority of players.

Contrary to what top-tier competitors are able to squeeze out of the game.... Not everything trickling down from the high-meta is a good thing.

[Joseph Mallan]

Curccu, on 13 November 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Well every pilot in MWO universe can't Jump and fire weapons either, there is just plenty of pilots here that are little better than those Canon Universe noob pilots.

What I am implying is that only the very best of MW:O pilots should be CAPABLE of Pop Tarting. So if we have 1 million players, only 1 hundred or so should be able to Pop Tart. The rest o us should Grumble and talk behind their backs cause they ARE better than us.

[dario03]

This has been discussed a bunch of times and I'm sticking with my original stance on this. If they were to disable firing while jumping then it should just be for certain weapons and also last for a tiny bit after jumping. Something like PPC and Gauss can't shoot while jumping but medium lasers can.

[Sandpit]

dario03, on 13 November 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

Something like PPC and Gauss can't shoot while jumping but medium lasers can.

Why?

[dario03]

Usually when someone says they would like for weapons to not be capable of firing while jumping is because poptarts are blasting them from long range with powerful pinpoint weapons. PPC and Gauss (though you do see it a lot less since the nerfs) are very good for that, medium lasers are not. Pre ppc and gauss nerf is when this used to come up a lot more often.

[Joseph Mallan]

dario03, on 13 November 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Usually when someone says they would like for weapons to not be capable of firing while jumping is because poptarts are blasting them from long range with powerful pinpoint weapons. PPC and Gauss (though you do see it a lot less since the nerfs) are very good for that, medium lasers are not. Pre ppc and gauss nerf is when this used to come up a lot more often.

Don't take this wrong, but that was...logical! Thanks for bucking the norm. I don't fully agree with you, but you have a good point.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 November 2013 - 07:20 AM.

[DaZur]

Sandpit, on 13 November 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

Why?

Quite simply... It's a proven tactic that exploits a weakness in theirs. There ... it's been said.

It seems as of late anything that hurts is OP and tactics that mitigates others tactics is unfair.

I'm not even going to mention myopic idealized premise of how combat should de-evolve.... No, not all combat needs to be resolved in a 10 minute circle-of-death dance Frances...

Edited by DaZur, 13 November 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[Durant Carlyle]

Poptarting is just another valid tactic, like flanking or charging right up the middle, or circle-strafing. Poptarts cannot cover all of the map with their firing lanes, and they can be fairly easily beaten (either avoided or destroyed) by application of intelligence and creativity.

You do realize that people who fire while jumping are less accurate than they'd normally be, right? Plus, it's actually easier to predict where they are going to be, especially if they continue poptarting from the same location like so many of them do.

And according to the TT "cannot fire while jumping" logic some have brought up, you also cannot fire while running or even walking. Because weapon fire range and bonuses/penalties are calculated from the end of your movement. We all know exactly why they did that -- because it was easier. Not because they thought 'Mechs shouldn't actually be firing while walking, running, and jumping.

Am I a jump sniper? No. Have I ever jump sniped? No. Do I get killed by them? Yep. Are they annoying? Yep. Would I remove poptarting if I could? Not a chance.

[Mystere]

DaZur, on 13 November 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

This appears to a be growing trend as of late. Pilots who go stationery and and play "turret" and have virtually zero appreciation for making themselves a difficult target.

I'd actually add something like:

Let players who limit themselves to 2-dimensional game play suffer immensely at the hands of those who know how to take advantage of the 3rd dimension.

DaZur, on 13 November 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Contrary to what top-tier competitors are able to squeeze out of the game.... Not everything trickling down from the high-meta is a good thing. [size=4]

With all due respect, MWO has no such thing as "top-tier competitors" for two main reasons:

• There is no ranking system in MWO. As such, anyone who considers themselves "top-tier" are plainly delusional.
  
• There are no real competitions in MWO. As such, you cannot have "competitors". You only have "enemies", "the other side", etc.

Now, when can I have my 24+ no-holds-barred last-man-standing winner-takes-all game mode? Because only then can we get a handle on who really is a "top-tier competitor". THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.

Edited by Mystere, 13 November 2013 - 12:25 PM.

[DaZur]

Mystere, on 13 November 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

I'd actually add something like:

Let players who limit themselves to 2-dimensional game play suffer immensely at the hands of those who know how to take advantage of the 3rd dimension.

With all due respect, MWO has no such thing as "top-tier competitors" for two main reasons:

• There is no ranking system in MWO. As such, anyone who considers themselves "top-tier" are plainly delusional.
  
• There are no real competitions in MWO. As such, you cannot have "competitors". You only have "enemies", "the other side", etc.

Now, when can I have my 24+ no-holds-barred last-man-standing winner-takes-all game mode? Because only then can we get a handle on who really is a "top-tier competitor". THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.

I give you 103 "likes" for appreciating the premise and logic of tactical maneuvering.

... And redact 97 "likes" for opening up the window for what will amount to high-level competitive player e-peen waving once a handful of the intelligentsia get a hold of this thread.

That said, you are correct in that there is no palpable ranking system nor contested matches (save the self-moderated team-on-team action) to add veracity to a the self anointed designations of "top-tier competitive player".

Having said that... There are a couple handful of players whose aptitude, attitude and personal skill-set set them at the far end of the Elo bell curve of the player-base and as such, they are forces to be reckoned with...

For the record... I'm on the polar opposite side of that bell-curve.

Edited by DaZur, 13 November 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[topgun505]

IIRC if you have a Heavy Gauss in TT and fire it without bracing for it first there is a chance the weapon will knock you on your @$$. Even an assault mech.

So what's the point? The point is that some or all of the ballistic weapons have recoil ... some of them severe. Honestly the thrust from your jump jets would NOT be sufficient to compensate for firing a large ballistic while in the air. You would go tumbling backwards out of control and end up a broken heap on the ground.

So. That said. I can easily see engineers enabling a fail safe feature where either ALL ballistic weapons ... or those of a certain caliber and larger are unable to fire whle not in contact on the ground.

Would this solve PPC pop-tarting? No. But Ghost Heat to a small extent prevents that from being hideously abusive now.

[cSand]

Can we remove ppcs, er ppcs, lasers, and autocannons, also remove lrms and srms and just make one "missle" weapon that locks and also dumb fires

also remove JJ's, heat, and engine differences, instead deciding mech speed by weight class

also remove assault mechs, and spiders,

I think then we will have a nice, balanced experience where nobody will have any reason to come onto the forum and request nerfage, after they lost a match to a mech using one of the above things

Edited by cSand, 13 November 2013 - 01:53 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Sandpit, on 13 November 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Whoah, I take ONE night off to watch some movies and this is what happens. I swear, I can't leave you kids alone for one minute.

Really? This is an actual suggestion? So instead of just saying "Nerf or Remove Poptarting" (which is what you're really wanting anyhow) you suggest it like this....

Derp idea is derp idea.

So you can't hit the JJs to do a quick facing change and shoot that squirrel tearing your rear armor up now?

Oh, I added it to my list Road, don't worry lol

We're making suggestions for a company that thinks ghost heat was the best solution to the problem of pinpoint damage, convergence, boating and a problematic heat system.

[Sandpit]

MustrumRidcully, on 13 November 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

We're making suggestions for a company that thinks ghost heat was the best solution to the problem of pinpoint damage, convergence, boating and a problematic heat system.

Let me translate this:

Players are making suggestions on anything that interferes with derp, stomp, shoot, derp, stomp, shoot. There's nothign wrong with that style of play but when I want that style of play I play agame designed to be played that way such as CoD. I don't go to WoT and expect it to be Battlefield (since both have tanks).

I can understand and am all for giving suggestions that balance and/or improve game play. Take a look at the list in my signature. Take a long look at that list. Those items aren't just on there because I thought they were funny. Those are all serious suggestions from players on things that should be removed from the game.

This? This is not a constructive idea. This is "I don't like being shot by poptarts so PGI should remove the ability to shoot at me while jumping"

Never mind the ramifications that this idea would have outside of a niche environment of poptarting. Such as being able to maneuver and keep up with squirrels or making a quick direction change in order to shoot that mech that just popped up over a hill behind you or being able to shoot at an enemy mech below you as you pop over a hill, firing as you land behind him before his non-jj mech can turn around to keep you off his rear armor.

[Grey Black]

MustrumRidcully, on 13 November 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

We're making suggestions for a company that thinks ghost heat was the best solution to the problem of pinpoint damage, convergence, boating and a problematic heat system.

And this is why we shouldn't make suggestions like this. It might actually happen.

[Roadbeer]

Grey Black, on 13 November 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

And this is why we shouldn't make suggestions like this. It might actually happen.

Too true. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

[Void Angel]

Texas Merc, on 12 November 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

OK I will be the nerd on this one.

Hey guys, In TT you couldn't jump while firing!

Actually, in Tabletop you could fire while jumping. You simply couldn't draw your line of fire from the air because there was no way for the opponent to fire back at you - but you could still fire weapons on a turn in which you jumped, in contrast to other rules which would not allow you to fire arm mounted weapons while punching, for example. Remember that the turn in battletech represented a kind of generalization of ten seconds of combat activity, so sometimes how it handles timing is a little odd. This was a pure balance issue which was solved by fudging realism in favor of playability.

Hah! Outnerd'd.

As far as the OP goes, see above as per Battletech theme flavor. Also see comments (often unkindly and/or ineptly expressed) about the dangers of removing fixable mechanics deemed to have been abused instead of, well, fixing them. There's a lot of slippery-slope fallacy being bandied about before I stopped reading the torch-and-pitchfork comments, but it's still a step in that direction. The advantages of jumping and firing can be balanced, though not in a vaccuum - what my 12 man is seeing in games is a massive uptick in jump-sniper teams: not because jumping and firing got more valuable by themselves, but because of the impact of indirect-fire modules on brawler rushes.

Edited by Void Angel, 13 November 2013 - 05:53 PM.