587 replies to this topic

[VIPER2207]

after catching up with you guys (sorry, i have to go to work, so please post a bit slower ), some things came to my mind.

1)
What is realy sad about the current state of MWO, is the following:
think yourself into a parallel universe, where only the game (the client) itself exists, no forum, no smurfy's (or others) mechlab, no community. No guys like Koniving (and all the others, think i saw Joseph and Vassago there too, just examples) answering the same questions again and again in the new player subsection, no Smurfy who picks game-files to pieces to biuld a tool like his mechlab. The game would be unplayable (or very close to it). Nobody would know about ghost heat and how this mechanic works, which weapons are affected and how much, nobody would definetely know how many missile-tubes a specific hardpoint on a specific mech has. You would have to spend hours (if not days) in the testing grounds (where skills and some other stuff is not taken into calculation) to try things, write down your results, and ask yourself what that means. And you have to repeat that after every single patch...
That's something that realy should not be allowed to be called "ready for release", and that's one of the things which stops lots of new players playing MWO.
MWO is not the only game which does this error. EvE Online has some pretty equal problems, but there you can explain it with the game itself wants to be, a very deep and complex economic simulation (well, at least that's eve for me). To be honest, MWO is a simple shooter and should explain itself to a certain grade.

2)
To the guys who love to bring up lots of numbers and statistics:
First, i'm with you, i love statistics and numbers and stuff, they are nice to back someone's opinion up. But take into consideration, that you can prove nearly everything with every statistic.
Here is a link to a book i read some time ago. It's the link to german Amazon (don't have any other, sorry), but i'm sure there is something equal in english.
http://www.amazon.de...Cgen+mit+zahlen
The title says "Lying with numbers: How we are getting manipulated with statistics".
Autor shows how you can take parts of a specific statistic to prove something, and after that, take other parts of the same statistic to prove the direct opposite. Very interesting.

3)
To the guy who said "I hope MWO dies quick so that someone can do something better" (forgot to write down your name, just got the statement,sorry):
Remember that Mechwarrior is a niche game. No publisher wanted to make a Mechwarrior-game for the last 10 years or so, because they feared it wouldn't pay out. If MWO fails (and i'm feeling realy sad saying, but, i think it will, if PGI and IGP don't turn by 180 degrees and get serious with this game), that will just make these publishers feeling confirmed. Two or three years after the deep fall of MWO, nobody will care about "bad communication blabla", "bad handling with community and long-time fans blabla", "bad design decisions blabla" or anything else. It will just be like "there was a mechwarrior-game some time ago, and it failed badly", so that's it.
And after the fall of MWO, people will lose (or have allready lost) their faith in kickstarter-like games, so nobody will pledge for a new mechwarrior-game

[-Natural Selection-]

I don't blame PGI. I blame the console world for turning the gaming industry into a pile of {Scrap}. Catering to the fotm format that does not expect game to have anything more than allot of shallow shiny things to draw people in. Then hitting them with tons of overpriced micro transactions until the a.d.d. sets in and they move on. The day of extended game/community followings ended with the demise of private servers.

[DeathofSelf]

Tolkien, on 18 November 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

There are important differences between MWO and AOE:O. That's a very good presentation by the way, very candid, but one of the problems those guys had was that they could not email their user base to announce new content. Think about how big of a disadvantage that is to anyone trying to re-engage a former player.

Thankfully MWO can reach out and let us know when/if community warfare shows up.

I think the two more important points are that there is no long term engaging content and "launch" was an utter failure in that the game was not even at the minimal viable product status, which AOEO and MWO had/have in common. It's good that PGI can email people but it still may very well be too little too late.

[DeathofSelf]

Dozier, on 18 November 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

I don't blame PGI. I blame the console world for turning the gaming industry into a pile of {Scrap}. Catering to the fotm format that does not expect game to have anything more than allot of shallow shiny things to draw people in. Then hitting them with tons of overpriced micro transactions until the a.d.d. sets in and they move on. The day of extended game/community followings ended with the demise of private servers.

I don't think it's consoles necessarily, it's been a slow death.. DLC turned into micro transactions, then DLC transitioned into "buy the rest of this incomplete game!", then micro transactions turned into free to play. Free to play is the absolute worst thing to happen to gaming in my opinion. It's more of a product of publisher greed and squeezing every last penny out of their customers (in my opinion).

Edited by DeathofSelf, 18 November 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Alex Wolfe]

VIPER2207, on 18 November 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

after the fall of MWO, people will lose (or have allready lost) their faith in kickstarter-like games, so nobody will pledge for a new mechwarrior-game

Robots are a small niche, it's like saying that RPG fans should lose faith in kickstarter games after the failure of new Shadowrun.

Manwhile, Torment is going strong. So do the not-Megaman and Star Citizen, among others. It all depends who's making the game. If people with history of making good games come forward and say they want to make a new mech game, they'd probably get kickstarted into orbit.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 18 November 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Kanigit]

I tried a few drops yesterday for the first time in over a month. I honestly could not figure out why this game had me so gripped for a year, I was thoroughly bored. The game is static, and the schedule for new content is, as always, 'just around the corner guys.' For months prior, my friends list has been red every time I login, but yesterday was just ridiculous- I think every match was comprised of the same players. The game needs a serious injection of quality content if it's going to be viable even six months from now. For myself and the buddy I started up with last October, Path of Exile is our current time-waster, and oh my goodness what a difference it is to be patronizing a game with skilled devs offering regular patches that really fix things, and a f2p model that is really f2p. I find it extremely unlikely I will be back to MWO before CW arrives, I'm totally uninterested in my incoming Saber mechs (and I love the wolverine!). For those of you sticking around, I hope the game is giving you the good times you seek. Cheers!

[Deathlike]

Creovex, on 18 November 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

You too huh? I am burning it out and gone. Unless magic happens, I am gone in 70.31 days...

If UI 2.0 comes within that amount of time (I don't know where your premium time projects to, I figure Feb 2014), you're likely to be gone by then. Good luck on that arbitrary ETA since, not even PGI knows their own ETAs.

Edited by Deathlike, 18 November 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[VIPER2207]

Alex Wolfe, on 18 November 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Robots are a small niche, it's like saying that RPG fans should lose faith in kickstarter games after the failure of new Shadowrun.

Manwhile, Torment, the not-Megaman and Star Citizen, among others, are growing strong. It all depends who's making the game. If people with history of making good games come forward and say they want to make a new mech game, they'd probably get kickstarted into orbit.

i allready saw some founders here stating that they starting to think about their funding to star citizen and others.

but sure, you are right, i think i didn't state clearly what i wanted to say. people will not lose faith in kickstarter-games in general, but will think twice when they see a new mechwarrior-game coming to kickstartet (or other forms of crowdfunding), what will make it heavier for the developer to hit their starting budget. i even don't say that it's a bad thing thinking twice before throwing money at something, but the fall of MWO will have an impact for future mechwarrior-games. that's what i wanted to say.

[Roland]

DeathofSelf, on 18 November 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

I don't think it's consoles necessarily, it's been a slow death.. DLC turned into micro transactions, then DLC transitioned into "buy the rest of this incomplete game!", then micro transactions turned into free to play. Free to play is the absolute worst thing to happen to gaming in my opinion. It's more of a product of publisher greed and squeezing every last penny out of their customers (in my opinion).

The reality is, this isn't actually true... or at least, it doesn't have to be.

It's totally possible to make good, F2P titles, which aren't just stupid cash grabs. Turbine, for instance, has made some very good F2P titles (which actually started off as regular games).

You can do it, but you need to hold onto one very important concept that most folks seem to miss... First and foremost, you must be making a fun, complete game. The game just happens to be F2P. This is a very difficult concept for a lot of developers to grasp, because there's some douchbag bean-counter who is like, "BUT HOW WILL WE MONEY?(sic)"

The money comes through microtransactions from folks who have disposable money, and will buy various {Scrap} like hats and junk. Lots of folks won't buy anything, and THAT IS OK. Because they are effectively providing the game a service merely by playing.

When a game tries so hard to get folks to buy junk, that they make stuff less fun if you don't pay them money, then that drives players away. When you drive players away, your game dies, and then the folks who DO pay money eventually quit playing too, and then you get no money at all.

Those of us who pay money to a game like MWO need folks who don't pay money.. because they provide us with a playerbase. The game isn't feasible if you reduce it to just the number of players who have actually paid money to PGI. And we see this currently, where the playerbase is too small to support decent matchmaking, which is itself driving even more folks away, further exacerbating the problem in a crazy death-spiral.

Certain changes, like preventing people from playing with their friends in a misguided attempt to protect pugs from "premades" has driven away players from organized groups... which has, in turn forced the remaining organized players into the pug games anyway, effectively negating any desired goal from the original change. All that has happened is that it's hurt the number of players, and reduced fun for those still playing.

And now, when suggestions are made to remove such a restriction, or just separate solo players (if they choose) and let grouped players play with as many members as they want, the answer comes back that the playerbase can't support a queue separation like that.. so then more folks just quit player, and the playerbase continues to dwindle.

[keith]

Roland, on 18 November 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

The reality is, this isn't actually true... or at least, it doesn't have to be.

It's totally possible to make good, F2P titles, which aren't just stupid cash grabs. Turbine, for instance, has made some very good F2P titles (which actually started off as regular games).

You can do it, but you need to hold onto one very important concept that most folks seem to miss... First and foremost, you must be making a fun, complete game. The game just happens to be F2P. This is a very difficult concept for a lot of developers to grasp, because there's some douchbag bean-counter who is like, "BUT HOW WILL WE MONEY?(sic)"

The money comes through microtransactions from folks who have disposable money, and will buy various {Scrap} like hats and junk. Lots of folks won't buy anything, and THAT IS OK. Because they are effectively providing the game a service merely by playing.

When a game tries so hard to get folks to buy junk, that they make stuff less fun if you don't pay them money, then that drives players away. When you drive players away, your game dies, and then the folks who DO pay money eventually quit playing too, and then you get no money at all.

Those of us who pay money to a game like MWO need folks who don't pay money.. because they provide us with a playerbase. The game isn't feasible if you reduce it to just the number of players who have actually paid money to PGI. And we see this currently, where the playerbase is too small to support decent matchmaking, which is itself driving even more folks away, further exacerbating the problem in a crazy death-spiral.

Certain changes, like preventing people from playing with their friends in a misguided attempt to protect pugs from "premades" has driven away players from organized groups... which has, in turn forced the remaining organized players into the pug games anyway, effectively negating any desired goal from the original change. All that has happened is that it's hurt the number of players, and reduced fun for those still playing.

And now, when suggestions are made to remove such a restriction, or just separate solo players (if they choose) and let grouped players play with as many members as they want, the answer comes back that the playerbase can't support a queue separation like that.. so then more folks just quit player, and the playerbase continues to dwindle.

gonna sum your whole post up. pgi sucks right now, and needs to do a 180. their whole f2p thing sucks. i don't think they bring this sinking boat back afloat, they have already pissed off most of their loyal fans.

[IceGryphon]

DaZur, on 18 November 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

There's a lot in life I choose to believe in despite never seeing, hearing or touching it... MW:O's Elo is just another one of those "faith" mechanisms...

Is this like the Holy Ghost of heat or something?
MWO will resurrect in 3 days when the UI 2.0 comes out?

[deforce]

im pretty sure a lot of people getting pissed off at PGI's snail speed progression are/have turned thier attention to Star Citizen.

I won't even be bothered to spend $5 bucks on 7 days of premium time for this game anymore, but I find myself dropping well over $500 on star citizen. (big sale this week btw)

[DaZur]

IceGryphon, on 18 November 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Is this like the Holy Ghost of heat or something?
MWO will resurrect in 3 days when the UI 2.0 comes out?

Naw... More like Pavlovian response... I see Pizza... desire Pizza... Want it to taste good, therefore I believe it tastes good.

[MadcatX]

deforce, on 18 November 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

im pretty sure a lot of people getting pissed off at PGI's snail speed progression are/have turned thier attention to Star Citizen.

I won't even be bothered to spend $5 bucks on 7 days of premium time for this game anymore, but I find myself dropping well over $500 on star citizen. (big sale this week btw)

500 bucks!?! Damn, that must be an awesome game!! I've heard of it obviously but I'm going to have to check out the gameplay.

[IceGryphon]

deforce, on 18 November 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

im pretty sure a lot of people getting pissed off at PGI's snail speed progression are/have turned thier attention to Star Citizen.

I won't even be bothered to spend $5 bucks on 7 days of premium time for this game anymore, but I find myself dropping well over $500 on star citizen. (big sale this week btw)

Monday, November 18 – ORIGIN M50
Tuesday, November 19 – ORIGIN 350R & Lightspeed Package
Wednesday, November 20 – Drake Caterpillar
Thursday, November 21 – RSI Aurora LX
Friday, November 22~24 – Anvil Gladiator & Aegis Retaliator
Monday, November 25 – MISC Starfarer

26th will be live stream with Idris Corvettes for sale.
Expect them to run 1250$ or more then last time.
Might be bonus content.
END OF LTI.

Source. https://robertsspace...ry-Sale-Details

[deforce]

IceGryphon, on 18 November 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Monday, November 18 – ORIGIN M50
Tuesday, November 19 – ORIGIN 350R & Lightspeed Package
Wednesday, November 20 – Drake Caterpillar
Thursday, November 21 – RSI Aurora LX
Friday, November 22~24 – Anvil Gladiator & Aegis Retaliator
Monday, November 25 – MISC Starfarer

26th will be live stream with Idris Corvettes for sale.
Expect them to run 1250$ or more then last time.
Might be bonus content.
END OF LTI.

Source. https://robertsspace...ry-Sale-Details

yup, im gonna pick up a 350r or whatever that lightspeed package is

[MadcatX]

And back... so Star Citizen only has a hangar available to play around with!? Or did I miss something on their main page?

I hope it's the latter, dropping $500 on a game you can't play yet sounds a bit ridiculous

[IceGryphon]

deforce, on 18 November 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

yup, im gonna pick up a 350r or whatever that lightspeed package is

This isn't even Kong's Final Form.
PC Gaming is dead to me if this fails.

MadcatX, on 18 November 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

And back... so Star Citizen only has a hangar available to play around with!? Or did I miss something on their main page?
I hope it's the latter, dropping $500 on a game you can't play yet sounds a bit ridiculous

You fail to understand what is inside those files you download for the hanger module.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Primez, on 18 November 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Edit: See thats where I think different why have a small playerbase why aim so low. If it's a F2P I would expect them to aim higher for that larger audience.

and look where that got us... {see coolant, 3PV, lock arms, champion trials etc}

Vassago Rain, on 18 November 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Schadenfreude. That's why.
If you knew as much about the game and its community as I do, you'd either join me in it, or cry.

i can do both because snowflake

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 18 November 2013 - 02:29 PM.

[El Moosechacho]

I'll keep playing now and again as long as my merc. company is still around and interested. But just the same as I decided against purchasing the Phoenix Package, they won't get another cent from me until there is any sort reasonable progress with this slow-motion train wreck.