184 replies to this topic

[RichAC]

Verizon contacted me again. They said that Internap is not necessarily who owns PGI's server or who they rent from. Its just their ISP.

And that in my case I would still have to contact that backbone company where the ping starts going bad. Apparently they are not going to contact them for me.

They say Tinet.net is the router, but the circuit is internap. And I would have to contact the admin for that server to see whats having the problems. Which seems to be during heavy load in Europe. Verizon is also still a little baffled as to why i'm getting routed through europe, but apparenlty thats not the main issue. Since my ping is perfect right now.

I still think its an issue with internap and not enough bandwidth dedicated to MWO, which he didn't rule out but all I can do is wait till the ping goes bad again and then send an email to the address they provided me with my good and bad traceroutes explaining the issue.. Or cross my fingers that the issue has been autocorrected.

This kind of freaked me out though, the Verizon guy said he plays MWO, and he sounds like a guy I've played with on teamspeak before hahaha. He barely let me get a word in and i was low on minutes so didn't get a chance to ask him his game name but....*insert twilight zone theme music here >

Edited by RichAC, 04 January 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[ShinVector]

RichAC, on 04 January 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

No ISP is going to do that for anybody especially one lone gamer. Its not as easy as changing the routing....or rather administrating the settings on the servers that they actually own and have access to. They cannot go into those servers which is why the verizon guy gave me the email for tinets admin, maybe they are contacting them for me now. But They ddidn't give me one for internap. And tinet can't do anything if its getting {Scrap} ping back from internap, except contact internap.

Depends on how bad the issues is really.
Ok got to set one thing straight... in the network world we usual call those hops see in the trace routes 'routers' not servers.

I find that if an ISP tells the customer to go contact the remote ISP on your issue kinda unprofessional. It has to work like a chain..
You can report the issue on your end.. And PGI can verify the issue on their ISP end at the same time.
Usually only the peers will give a damn about problems on the link between each other.
Be wary that internet routing can be asynchronous meaning the route you take to reach PGI can be totally different from the one PGI takes to reach you.

Just keep the ticket open with your respective ISPs until it is resolved.
If it can't be... Go ask the reason why...

Here is some useless info..
http://bgp.he.net/AS11854#_graph4

AS11854 is where MWO server subnet is located.
Base on this info, it seem MWO/PGI has direct peering to the following ISPs.
AS3257 Tinet SpA
AS3549 Level 3 Communications, Inc. (GBLX)
AS174 Cogent Communications
AS6453 Tata Communications

I didn't realise my ISP's Tier 1 provider has direct peering with Internap via AS6453... I guess it is probably the best Singapore can get to Canada.. Oh well..

Edited by ShinVector, 04 January 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Kh0rn]

The fact remains directly after the patch this happened I was playing before the patch 270 ping no problem patch comes along I download and install , log into a game poof! 3000 ping all of a sudden. Enough said.

Edited by Kh0rn, 04 January 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[RichAC]

ShinVector, on 04 January 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Depends on how bad the issues is really.
Ok got to set one thing straight... in the network world we usual call those hops see in the trace routes 'routers' not servers.

I find that if an ISP tells the customer to go contact the remote ISP on your issue kinda unprofessional. It has to work like a chain..
You can report the issue on your end.. And PGI can verify the issue on their ISP end at the same time.
Usually only the peers will give a damn about problems on the link between each other.
Be wary that internet routing can be asynchronous meaning the route you take to reach PGI can be totally different from the one PGI takes to reach you.

Just keep the ticket open with your respective ISPs until it is resolved.
If it can't be... Go ask the reason why...

Here is some useless info..
http://bgp.he.net/AS11854#_graph4

AS11854 is where MWO server subnet is located.
Base on this info, it seem MWO/PGI has direct peering to the following ISPs.
AS3257 Tinet SpA
AS3549 Level 3 Communications, Inc. (GBLX)
AS174 Cogent Communications
AS6453 Tata Communications

I didn't realise my ISP's Tier 1 provider has direct peering with Internap via AS6453... I guess it is probably the best Singapore can get to Canada.. Oh well..

The reason why.... they say is that they are only for the local network, and don't have access to those backbone "routers" and that I would have to contact the Tinet admin.

They gave me the email, which couldn't find listed on WHOIS, and told me to email them. Maybe thats unprofessional but what else can I do? They said all they would be able to do is email them as well. I'm not sure if the admin for that backbone router would be more willing to help me or them?

My ping has now jumped again from 20 to 100. So I guess I have to send an email. The router/circuit in question in my particular case is internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]

I wonder would trying to connect with ipv6 make a difference?

I'll guess I'll see if I even get a reply back from this tinet admin.

Edited by RichAC, 04 January 2014 - 08:55 AM.

[MarauderBronze]

<p>So apparently switching my DNS server didn't actually help, and my ping is still over 1000+. I can't really explain it, but when I do a tracert and ping test, everything looks fine, but when I drop in game, my ping is 1000+. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I started a ping test when I clicked the launch button:</p>
<p>

Spoiler

</p>
<div>Pinging 70.42.29.65 with 32 bytes of data:</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=224ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=229ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=227ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=235ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=238ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=223ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=224ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=233ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=233ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Request timed out.</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=224ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=231ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=228ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=224ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=222ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=224ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=232ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=234ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=229ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=222ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Request timed out.</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=222ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=224ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=236ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=578ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=309ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=241ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=1840ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=262ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=985ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=230ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=231ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=231ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=232ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=232ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=228ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=227ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=223ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=2228ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=245ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=239ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=228ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=227ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=229ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=231ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=224ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=224ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=228ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=226ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=228ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=229ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=223ms TTL=50</div>
<div>Reply from 70.42.29.65: bytes=32 time=227ms TTL=50</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ping statistics for 70.42.29.65:</div>
<div> Packets: Sent = 69, Received = 67, Lost = 2 (2% loss),</div>
<div>Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:</div>
<div> Minimum = 222ms, Maximum = 2228ms, Average = 300ms<br />

</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If you notice, there are two huge spikes to around 2000ms. The problem is, for whatever reason, that when I join the match, even though it says my ping has returned to normal, it definitely does not. Also, I have ran this test multiple times and the visible spikes are always when a match is found and when I am dropped into a match. I have resorted to using a free vpn service to play this game, which since the vpn lowers my ping drastically, makes me think it is an internet routing issue. Possibly IGP/PGI changed server location/ISPs recently? Or maybe their ISP is routing traffic differently?</div>

[ShinVector]

RichAC, on 04 January 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

I wonder would trying to connect with ipv6 make a difference?
I'll guess I'll see if I even get a reply back from this tinet admin.

Really sounds like congested link issue are certain time period for your case.
1. Could normal usage by users.
2. Bandwidth ddos attacks..
3. Really who knows but your ISP...

To Khorn...
Coincidences do happen... If you in the network line.. You will go and find what the hell exactly happened up to packet level if needed.
Just a matter going down chain to see where the delays comes from.. But almost impossible to do for online games.. heh..
However you should check on the local side.. whether anything change though... cpu usage and such...

Don't believe your 3s ping/traceroute.. hmmm...
Btw... http://winmtr.net/download-winmtr/
Alternative to the windows traceroute.

To Marauder....
DNS servers generally do one main thing.... Convert domain names to IP addresses.
See below... That's it.. That all it does... It will never affect your in-game latency...
MWO game servers probably do not even use DNS at all since it is hard coded into the client config files.

Faster and more realiable DNS generally do one thing.. Faster web browsing and that's it...
It can affect download speed when CDN content distribution network are involved.. Eg. Akamai..
The dns server you use affects which CDN server you go too, usually you would to go the akamai server in our close to your ISP for faster downloads... Not sure whether mwo patching uses CDNs... Never bothered to check.

You should refer your latency issue to your ISP..
With both ping and traceroute from normal with via VPN to show there is a routing issue.

Quote

C:\Users\>nslookup

> www.mwomercs.com
Server: [8.8.8.8]
Address: 8.8.8.8

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: www.mwomercs.com
Address: 70.42.29.74

Edited by ShinVector, 04 January 2014 - 09:22 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

anyone from asia is probably experiencing issues due to the underground sea line they are replacing.

[MarauderBronze]

ShinVector, Thanks for the info, definitely figured out the whole DNS doesn't affect routing thing after a bit more research, sorry for spreading bad info. But yeah, free vpns have helped me play again. Also, thanks to Col. Pada Vinson, didn't know that bit about the sea line...

[ShinVector]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 04 January 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

anyone from asia is probably experiencing issues due to the underground sea line they are replacing.

It is possible.. But it is up to the ISPs to let their users know if they are affected by it though.

MarauderBronze, on 04 January 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

ShinVector, Thanks for the info, definitely figured out the whole DNS doesn't affect routing thing after a bit more research, sorry for spreading bad info. But yeah, free vpns have helped me play again. Also, thanks to Col. Pada Vinson, didn't know that bit about the sea line...

No problem.

[RichAC]

MarauderBronze, on 04 January 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

ShinVector, Thanks for the info, definitely figured out the whole DNS doesn't affect routing thing after a bit more research, sorry for spreading bad info. But yeah, free vpns have helped me play again. Also, thanks to Col. Pada Vinson, didn't know that bit about the sea line...

What free vpn are you using?

[RichAC]

ShinVector, on 04 January 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Really sounds like congested link issue are certain time period for your case.
1. Could normal usage by users.
2. Bandwidth ddos attacks..
3. Really who knows but your ISP...

Thats exactly what it sounds like, But my ISP is saying its probably because PGI is a small company and doesn't pay for enough bandwidth...lol And that I should email the admin of that link. which I did today. I would be in total shock if the guy actually replies back to me though.

But I did talk to someone today who lives in NYC and plays the game and has perfect 20-40ms connection at all times, but he has time warner. So it does sound like an issue with my ISP again.

I mean if most of the ISP's in the world and in my country are having trouble connecting to MWO's server though, I can't imagine they will even care. I've been calling verizon for a week, and they have been calling me almost everyday as well...what more can I do? what else can I say?

All I can think of is to call them and tell them time warner in my area has no issues connecting to their server, and that the admin of the link never responded back to me and, even if its only a 3rd party partner, its reflecting bad on verizon. But they will just tell me sorry.

Edited by RichAC, 04 January 2014 - 11:55 PM.

[Kh0rn]

Shin Iv run through every thing possible too see if there may be a fault any where but every thing turns up as it did before hand. Every other game runs fine no ping spikes nothing , again and again multiple tracerts , I even reinstalled the game too no fix. Something too do with the patch I find it strange that a meer 10 mins when the patch was done things went wrong.

[DrxAbstract]

The specific path of routing to MWO servers seems to run through the same series of congested/malfunctioning routers.

[Kh0rn]

Ran the program you gave me Shin and every thing seems fine the worst was 270 ping the best being 260 ping so it still seems too be nothing on my side as far as I know and I have pretty much covered all I can as far as I know. Hoping and praying what ever has gone wrong is fixed soon.

[RichAC]

DrxAbstract, on 05 January 2014 - 01:00 AM, said:

The specific path of routing to MWO servers seems to run through the same series of congested/malfunctioning routers.

This seems to be the issue, for 90% of the ISP's.

[MarauderBronze]

Since RichAC asked, I switch between Hotspot Shield, VPN Book, USA Hot Free VPN, and USA VPN, depending on which one will give me under 500 ping. There ARE faster ones out there, but these are the ones I've found that do not have bandwidth limits. Also, sidenote: Hotspot shield is a good free one if you don't mind dealing with a downloaded client and ads, but isn't any faster/slower than the others IMO. Good luck, hope this works for you guys too.

If you've never heard of any of the above searches, just google them or you can also google "Free VPNs," but personally I would never use one with a bandwidth limit.

DrxAbstract, on 05 January 2014 - 01:00 AM, said:

The specific path of routing to MWO servers seems to run through the same series of congested/malfunctioning routers.

The same congested routers as what else?

[RichAC]

MarauderBronze, on 05 January 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

Since RichAC asked, I switch between Hotspot Shield, VPN Book, USA Hot Free VPN, and USA VPN, depending on which one will give me under 500 ping. There ARE faster ones out there, but these are the ones I've found that do not have bandwidth limits. Also, sidenote: Hotspot shield is a good free one if you don't mind dealing with a downloaded client and ads, but isn't any faster/slower than the others IMO. Good luck, hope this works for you guys too.

If you've never heard of any of the above searches, just google them or you can also google "Free VPNs," but personally I would never use one with a bandwidth limit.



The same congested routers as what else?

Thanks good to know.

Well I emailed the admin for the congested link router affecting my route. I highly doubt I will ever get a response.

I've also done some googling on that domain and ip that affects me, and it seems its been a topic that has come up in the past before on verizon forums, and also on past MWO forums threads. . Even on the verizon forums users mention they are tying to connect to mwo. It seems Noone ever got anywhere with verizon, but apparenlty its not a new issue for them.

Edited by RichAC, 05 January 2014 - 05:27 AM.

[RichAC]

http://mwomercs.com/...ch/page__st__80

Basically reading this thread is dejavu for me. I'm not the only verizon customer that has complained about the exact same issue and routing.

I went throught he same situation, first they say the server is not owned by them. THen i show them business records and whois claiming othwerwise, then they text you saying they will fix the issue. Then they don't bother.

Its the exact same scenario as now. Guys who were in the 20-50ms range, went to over 100ms.

Does PGI do something on purpose with each patch maybe to try keep people balanced somehow at the same ping? hahahha (maybe somebody else is )

I don't remember any of those names ingame from the above thread, and I'm assuming they don't play anymore. It is huge teas when you ping doubles or triples for some unknown reason.

AT the end it seems it was a bad circuit that was turned on and the problem was supposedly fixed, but never actually confirmed. This is what the last verizon guy said to me too might be the problem with my connection. But asked me to email me the admin myself. I guess those guys aren't playing anymore or they would be complaining about this new issue. I'm going to try and add them to my friends list since I can't reply to the topic anymore.

Its possible they fixed a circuit on the one verizon router in NY originally thought to be not owned by verizon that routes to europe. But now the router in question is in fact that german router, and the circuit is for internap....

But whats its interesting, is that those people were also complaining it happened to them, right after the patch in January! I have no idea how that could even be related or possible, but its starting to make me wonder though.

Here is another thread that was made at the same time.They probably don't play anymore either.

http://mwomercs.com/...ch-i-never-did/

Edited by RichAC, 05 January 2014 - 06:28 AM.

[ShinVector]

Kh0rn, on 05 January 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

Ran the program you gave me Shin and every thing seems fine the worst was 270 ping the best being 260 ping so it still seems too be nothing on my side as far as I know and I have pretty much covered all I can as far as I know. Hoping and praying what ever has gone wrong is fixed soon.

You can use notepad or what ever to save the info from WinMTR record the date and time. This is to create a log.
When your high ping issue hits, its should reveal at which hop the deviation is and where the problem starts.

Taking note.
Usually the first hop is your local network. If its goes bad there.. There is likely a local LAN issue.
Next few hops will be the local loop to your ISP..
After your ISP it will moving to other ISPs through the internet to reach MWO servers.

For eg.
I had own connectivity problem several months back which I was too lazy to troubleshoot and dismissed bad connectivity to Canada.
When I start troubleshooting I realise I was having latency spikes and packets loss even my own ISP's gateway IP on the local loop portion.
Problem found to be due to a loose optical fibre cable at the fibre terminate point in my living room where my FTHT optical fibre modem connects too. (Maybe one of cats did it who knows.)

Essentially want to avoid troubleshooting aimlessly if the problem is in your own house.

3000ms is kinda weird and extreme.. Try to log it down and know where the spikes are coming from as log from winMTR.

[ShinVector]

RichAC, on 05 January 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

Thanks good to know.

Well I emailed the admin for the congested link router affecting my route. I highly doubt I will ever get a response.

I've also done some googling on that domain and ip that affects me, and it seems its been a topic that has come up in the past before on verizon forums, and also on past MWO forums threads. . Even on the verizon forums users mention they are tying to connect to mwo. It seems Noone ever got anywhere with verizon, but apparenlty its not a new issue for them.

Just sounds like reaching Internap from Verizon via Tinet is giving a lot of problem.

Myself I go to Internap via own ISP(M1) via Tata Communications. Been pretty stable these past months.. The most is an increase of latency about +50ms depending on the time of day. (Oh wait... There have been spikes usually they don't long than a few hours. Kinda rare.)

Honestly I think if they had their servers in other places other than Canada. Eg. US...
It would probably meant better connectivity for most people... I guess trying to figure out how to sync CW in such a setup would be too much for them.

Edited by ShinVector, 05 January 2014 - 06:44 AM.