184 replies to this topic

[VerTicaL]

Issue still persists for me making the game unplayable

Have a support ticket open,they are working on it

Holding thumbs

[RichAC]

been fixed for me past couple days. we'll see if it lasts over the weekend.

[RichAC]

welp my ping is back to over 100 when i had 25 all week....I might not feel the lag, but my score reflects it....

testing to any toronto server at speedtest.net I'm between 20 and 50....

Edited by RichAC, 11 January 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

RichAC, on 11 January 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

welp my ping is back to over 100 when i had 25 all week....I might not feel the lag, but my score reflects it....

testing to any toronto server at speedtest.net I'm between 20 and 50....

Did you run at different times every day to make sure you werent just getting lucky? My ping increases appear at random times of the day, the only consistency has been that it happens daily. I get normal ping from 8am to 10pm Monday, but Tuesday ends up being terrible ping from 6am to 5pm while the only good ping time i get Wednesday would be 12am to 10am.... Then Thurs, Fri and Sat give me normal pings consistently from 4pm to 9pm. It's absolutely confounding from a technical perspective, but then again my issue isnt caused by traffic once it hits Canadian services, it's from the fact my traffic gets routed from New York to Kansas then back to New York where it's sent overseas to either Ireland or Germany then back to Georgia. That i'm getting hijacked is the only viable solution i have, but it is a nightmare to say the least. Skype appointment with an IGP networking specialist Monday.

[RichAC]

DrxAbstract, on 11 January 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

Did you run at different times every day to make sure you werent just getting lucky? My ping increases appear at random times of the day, the only consistency has been that it happens daily. I get normal ping from 8am to 10pm Monday, but Tuesday ends up being terrible ping from 6am to 5pm while the only good ping time i get Wednesday would be 12am to 10am.... Then Thurs, Fri and Sat give me normal pings consistently from 4pm to 9pm. It's absolutely confounding from a technical perspective, but then again my issue isnt caused by traffic once it hits Canadian services, it's from the fact my traffic gets routed from New York to Kansas then back to New York where it's sent overseas to either Ireland or Germany then back to Georgia. That i'm getting hijacked is the only viable solution i have, but it is a nightmare to say the least. Skype appointment with an IGP networking specialist Monday.

Ya i speedtest all the time especially when I have this issue. I never speedtest bad to montreal or toronto.... Only the game is giving me unusual high ping. And i play the game at all times of day. it was 20-50 ping all week starting wedensday. Now starting this morning went back to over 100.

Yes I get routed through europe as well. Verizon couldn't answer me why and though it extremely strange themselves. And granted I have not tracerouted to the speedtest servers...but even when I'm at 20 ping, its going through germany to the game. It does not seem to correlate with NY or German peak times. But it does seem like 4 or 5 am would be the best pings for me lol. It just seems to correlate with peak times for the game.

But friday night i had perfect ping, even though server was lagging for some, and random lance members were crashing or losing connection every other game, my ping was fine. Now its saturday morning, and boom, my ping is garbage again. The only thing I did was make a forum post last night after not posting for a week...hahah.

Below you can see some traceroutes when I am receiving the bad ping:

Tracing route to relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 9 ms 10 ms 5 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34.1]
3 11 ms 12 ms 7 ms G0-1-3-7.NYCMNY-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.185.220]
4 94 ms 12 ms 10 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 9 ms 15 ms 12 ms 0.so-4-0-1.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.29]
6 9 ms 16 ms 11 ms TenGigE0-5-0-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.65]
7 28 ms 25 ms 44 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
8 38 ms 39 ms 39 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 100 ms 104 ms 103 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 97 ms 99 ms 98 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.132]
11 103 ms 103 ms 96 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]

Trace complete.


1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 8 ms 10 ms 10 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34.1]
3 15 ms 15 ms 12 ms 130.81.185.220
4 25 ms 84 ms 12 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 22 ms 21 ms 10 ms 0.so-4-0-1.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.29]
6 18 ms 16 ms 19 ms TenGigE0-7-4-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.133
7 35 ms 33 ms 34 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
8 56 ms 54 ms 55 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 118 ms 119 ms 112 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 111 ms 111 ms 109 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.132]
11 116 ms 111 ms 109 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]


Here are some traceroutes when I am getting the good ping:

Tracing route to relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 10 ms 5 ms 8 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34
.1]
3 11 ms 13 ms 10 ms G0-1-3-7.NYCMNY-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.185.220]
4 48 ms 11 ms 10 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 83 ms 30 ms 33 ms 0.so-4-0-1.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.29]
6 19 ms 12 ms 23 ms TenGigE0-7-1-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.125]
7 14 ms 12 ms 15 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
8 29 ms 26 ms 28 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 33 ms 34 ms 34 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 36 ms 40 ms 44 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.132]
11 38 ms 40 ms 39 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]

Trace complete.

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 6 ms 11 ms 6 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34.1]
3 10 ms 11 ms 12 ms 130.81.185.220
4 88 ms 9 ms 11 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 8 ms 11 ms 11 ms 0.so-4-0-1.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.29]
6 14 ms 21 ms 11 ms TenGigE0-7-0-4.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.25.226]
7 14 ms 10 ms 10 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
8 26 ms 29 ms 28 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 23 ms 22 ms 22 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 39 ms 39 ms 40 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.1
32]
11 38 ms 39 ms 39 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]

As you can see I go from NY to Germany to Atlanta, back to NY to Toronto. Just like you've described friend. Totally unfathomable. Same exact route at all times of day. I've emailed the admin of that tinet network at Verizon's suggestion but of course I've received no reply back and I'd be naive to expect one.

But ya I feel the same way, not that our pc's are getting hijacked, but that someone is hacking those servers to route us through europe, or having them throttle us hahaha. It sounds crazy, but it is 2014, the age of the NSA revelations, anything is possible. Even children, with enough bitcoins can hire murderers nowadays.

You can search past verizon and mwo forum posts and verizon fios users complaining about tinet-gw.customer.alter.net the verizon border router. The one in brooklyn ny, that mysteriously routes me to germany. Now it seems the high ping issue has jumped to the next border router along the route that belongs to tiscalli/tinet in germany that connects me to internap.

I'm going to send another email to the German admin, and harass verizon some more, then I have to give up, there is nothing I can do about a jealous MWO hacker ruining verizon fios connections, cause he lives in some ****** far away country with garbage connections and thinks this means level play. When he prolly has triple the FPS I get and a better mouse...lol Or maybe its IGP or PGI having special arrangements with these companies, or doing something to try for a level play to force us americans at 100 ping like the europeans. Again, I can't call it.

I'm a spoiled american New yorker, 100 ping is absolute garbage for an fps game. Makes me feel like I'm playing quake 1 back in 1996 with dialup 56.6k. And its a total tease when I've only started getting this problem in december. Or was good all week and back to {Scrap} this morning? SUSPECT!~

Edited by RichAC, 11 January 2014 - 08:39 AM.

[ShinVector]

RichAC, on 11 January 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

As you can see I go from NY to Germany to Atlanta, back to NY to Toronto. Just like you've described friend. Totally unfathomable. Same exact route at all times of day. I've emailed the admin of that tinet network at Verizon's suggestion but of course I've received no reply back and I'd be naive to expect one.

Having trouble seeing the NY, Germany, Altanta, NY, Toronto.. Route you are mentioning..
Where are you seeing that ?

From what I can see the IP address of the HOPs between your 116ms (bad) and 40ms (good) trace routes are the same.

[MAX3D2]

You need to buy the 500$ Gold Mech and get the complimentary PGI "Low Ping Pack" ie see Modred's 6 ms ping

[RichAC]

ShinVector, on 11 January 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Having trouble seeing the NY, Germany, Altanta, NY, Toronto.. Route you are mentioning..
Where are you seeing that ?

From what I can see the IP address of the HOPs between your 116ms (bad) and 40ms (good) trace routes are the same.

Is that a serious question ? And yes I've explained the route is the same. when its good or bad. But regardless, I should not be taking that route. Is that no common sense? That means there is more a chance for me to run into problems going around the fkn world and country to get to toronto from nyc.

Tracing route to tfa.infinitegamepublishing.com [70.42.29.76]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 25 ms 30 ms 175 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34
.1]
3 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms G0-10-3-3.NYCMNY-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net [130.81.
182.18]
4 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms so-3-1-0-0.NY5030-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.8
1.199.12]
5 10 ms 11 ms 10 ms 0.so-0-0-0.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.17.21]
6 12 ms 11 ms 22 ms TenGigE0-7-1-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.125
]
7 20 ms 25 ms 22 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
8 30 ms 28 ms 88 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 * 91 ms 93 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.71.62]
10 94 ms 93 ms 91 ms border1.te9-1-bbnet2.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.1
11 * * * Request timed out.

It seems like the issue is now starting the hop right before where the problem was last time....its unreal.

Verizon only owns alter.net not tinet.net which they won't help me with. Even though they are also dumbfounded by the fact I am getting to europe, I can't seem to get them to change that route. Especially since the good traceroutes don't change. This is getting to be a joke. You can see I got a lag spike too at hop 9 which is what the asterik means. That could cause a crash or loss of connection to the game.


Anayways, AS you can see I start off in NYC since it says that right in the domain names. I hope you figured that much out. then after the HOP 7, which is alter.net which still part of verizon and utraced to brooklyn NYC, i'm routed to France. Which is HOP8, then I go to Germany which is Hop 9, then i go to atlanta which is Hop 10. after that Internap is now blocking the ping requests at the moment....hmmm..

I am using this website to trace the location of the routers...http://en.utrace.de/

I'm doing traceroutes right now and I'm at 125 ping. Totally disgusting. Its no wonder noone plays this game....This isn't an rpg, who wants to play an fps game at over 100 ping like its the 90s.....

I can't call verizon today I have to call them tomorrow.

Edited by RichAC, 11 January 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[RichAC]

MAX3D2, on 11 January 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

You need to buy the 500$ Gold Mech and get the complimentary PGI "Low Ping Pack" ie see Modred's 6 ms ping

maybe they will be able to afford a better server or ISP then...

[RichAC]

finally getting a full traceroute now:

Tracing route to relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]

1 <1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1

2 7 ms 10 ms 5 ms L100.NYCMNY-VFTTP-175.verizon-gni.net [71.167.34.1]
3 12 ms 21 ms 11 ms G0-1-3-7.NYCMNY-LCR-21.verizon-gni.net [130.81.185.220]
4 80 ms 11 ms 11 ms ae0-0.NY325-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.110]
5 24 ms 18 ms 35 ms 0.so-4-0-0.XT2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.9.249]
6 32 ms 18 ms 23 ms TenGigE0-7-1-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.125]
7 50 ms 51 ms 54 ms tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122]
8 58 ms 56 ms 57 ms xe-8-2-0.tor10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.98]
9 128 ms 125 ms 122 ms internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.70.94]
10 121 ms 125 ms 124 ms border1.te7-1-bbnet1.tor001.pnap.net [70.42.24.132]
11 123 ms 121 ms 122 ms relay-1.mwtactics.com [70.42.29.65]

Trace complete.

Totally disgusting.... going from 25 ping all week. to 125 ping today. I still ping great at speedtest.net to any montreal or toronto server. And i highly doubt its because there is alot of verizon fios customers playing mwo right now haha. Especially since it seems most of them already quit the game last year!

Edited by RichAC, 11 January 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[ShinVector]

RichAC, on 11 January 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

Is that a serious question ? And yes I've explained the route is the same. when its good or bad. But regardless, I should not be taking that route. Is that no common sense? That means there is more a chance for me to run into problems going around the fkn world and country to get to toronto from nyc.

Ok you answered the question. I see what you are speaking off now.

But based on your trace route.. I some how doubt 77.67.71.62 is in Germany regardless of what IP whois says.
I am making an educated guess here.. I do not believe you should be able to get 22ms from the US to Germany... 100ms minimum is more like due to the distance...
That's just the point I am trying to make really.. Doesn't solve your problem.. As mention think it is just congestion during peak period traffic on that tinet-Internap link.
If its PGI's bandwidth problem the latency should appear only on the Internap portion....
Again all educated guessing.. Only the respective ISPs will know what is really happening and Canada is not a great location to place a game server.

[RichAC]

ShinVector, on 11 January 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

Ok you answered the question. I see what you are speaking off now.

But based on your trace route.. I some how doubt 77.67.71.62 is in Germany regardless of what IP whois says.
I am making an educated guess here.. I do not believe you should be able to get 22ms from the US to Germany... 100ms minimum is more like due to the distance...
That's just the point I am trying to make really.. Doesn't solve your problem.. As mention think it is just congestion during peak period traffic on that tinet-Internap link.
If its PGI's bandwidth problem the latency should appear only on the Internap portion....
Again all educated guessing.. Only the respective ISPs will know what is really happening and Canada is not a great location to place a game server.

I highly doubt utrace is wrong or that far off lol.....We are talking about fiber optics, and its only one direct hop across the pond. And If we just went off the domain name, tinet.net does indeed sound like its related to the german company named Tiscalli International. Does it not? I ping great to other toronto servers...


The problem is when they are overloaded in europe, it is now going to affect me when routing through there to MWO for some reason. Which is probably why, just like in january, it was europeans and verizon fios customers complaining about the same issues. Don't you think that is mind boggling? That I have to almost go around the world to get to toronto from NYC? Its even mind boggling to verizon.

Changing my DNS servers does not change anything at all and Everytime I call verizon they are telling me that the game server is the one that is changing my route. Verizon says they can only affect up to hop 7. They say its either PGI not paying for enough bandwidth, or that circuit needs to be upgraded or I'm being throttled, which they say is probably controlled by internap. Maybe they are lying, but maybe they aren't...

And, internap is the game servers ISP after all...according to verizon, they are the ones who probably also own, not the router, but the circuit on that tinet router.

Edited by RichAC, 11 January 2014 - 11:10 AM.

[RichAC]

at least the good ping evened out the fact I get like 20 fps and have a {Scrap} mouse, my score definitely reflected this, especially with faster mechs......now I'm just disadvantaged.

at least the good ping evened out the fact I get like 20 fps and have a {Scrap} mouse, my score definitely reflected this, especially with faster mechs......now I'm just disadvantaged.  This is definitely the last pc I ever buy...

at least the good ping evened out the fact I get like 20 fps and have a {Scrap} mouse, my score definitely reflected this, especially with faster mechs......now I'm just disadvantaged.  This is definitely the last pc I ever buy...

oh look I'm laggin so bad to the website I can't even post right...might as well give these hackers a shovel so they can just dig a hole for the whole pc industry.

Edited by RichAC, 11 January 2014 - 11:46 AM.

[ShinVector]

RichAC, on 11 January 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

I highly doubt utrace is wrong or that far off lol.....We are talking about fiber optics, and its only one direct hop across the pond. And If we just went off the domain name, tinet.net does indeed sound like its related to the german company named Tiscalli International. Does it not? I ping great to other toronto servers...


The problem is when they are overloaded in europe, it is now going to affect me when routing through there to MWO for some reason. Which is probably why, just like in january, it was europeans and verizon fios customers complaining about the same issues. Don't you think that is mind boggling? That I have to almost go around the world to get to toronto from NYC? Its even mind boggling to verizon.

Changing my DNS servers does not change anything at all and Everytime I call verizon they are telling me that the game server is the one that is changing my route. Verizon says they can only affect up to hop 7. They say its either PGI not paying for enough bandwidth, or that circuit needs to be upgraded or I'm being throttled, which they say is probably controlled by internap. Maybe they are lying, but maybe they aren't...

And, internap is the game servers ISP after all...according to verizon, they are the ones who probably also own, not the router, but the circuit on that tinet router.

This 'germany' and 'overloaded Europe' idea is where you fail understand how the Internet physically actually works.

Look here http://www.submarinecablemap.com/ There is not direct under sea cable between Canada and Europe at all !!
If fact it looks like all Internet traffic to Canada via undersea cables transits the USA.

Everything that utrace says is based on whois here http://en.utrace.de/whois/70.42.29.65
This can be wrong because IP address can be assigned anywhere and human beings update this stuff.

Edited by ShinVector, 11 January 2014 - 07:53 PM.

[DragonsFire]

Rich, as Shin noted this is likely human error in terms of what utrace is giving you for a readout.

Regardless, while your problem is understandably frustrating, it's also not a problem specific to PGI, so your frustration with this is misplaced. Your traces clearly show that the problem originates 3 hops out from the MWO servers, which PGI would have no access to as they do not own those routers.

The best course of action that they can do is build cases of decreased performance for clients attempting to access their equipment (the players) via this particular router that appears to have impacted performance, and have some monitoring and maintenance performed. But at the end of the day, that responsibility is going to be on the Service Provider who owns the router in question.

[MarauderBronze]

For anyone still following like I am, I think this might have something to do with it:https://www.google.com/search?q=verizon+net+neutrality&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

[ShinVector]

MarauderBronze, on 15 January 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

For anyone still following like I am, I think this might have something to do with it:https://www.google.com/search?q=verizon+net+neutrality&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Don't think so...
'ISPs cutting corners for profit... More likely..'

[Voivode]

Windows updates. They'll get you every time.

[ThorsMjolnir117]

I am good friends with MarauderBronze. We used to play on weekends (I'm deployed now so no MWO for a year+) because of the time zone difference between South Korea and NY. Pre big patch my ping would be in the low 40's with Time Warner as my provider. His was somewhere between 200-400 from what I recall. Immediately after the big patch mine jumped to around 60. His went to 1500+ and we couldn't drop together because his end was unplayable.

I played the week and night before the patch and ping was fine. After the patch and since then it went up 50%. Still playable due to my high speed connection and location, but there was a direct correlation. He downloaded the patch and it was immediately unplayable.

Maybe something else in the world happened and it's a coincidence with the patch and ping issues. Maybe the Chinese are sucking up the bandwidth with hacking attacks on DOD servers/websites.

Edited by ThorsMjolnir117, 15 January 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[RichAC]

ThorsMjolnir117, on 15 January 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

I am good friends with MarauderBronze. We used to play on weekends (I'm deployed now so no MWO for a year+) because of the time zone difference between South Korea and NY. Pre big patch my ping would be in the low 40's with Time Warner as my provider. His was somewhere between 200-400 from what I recall. Immediately after the big patch mine jumped to around 60. His went to 1500+ and we couldn't drop together because his end was unplayable.

I played the week and night before the patch and ping was fine. After the patch and since then it went up 50%. Still playable due to my high speed connection and location, but there was a direct correlation. He downloaded the patch and it was immediately unplayable.

Maybe something else in the world happened and it's a coincidence with the patch and ping issues. Maybe the Chinese are sucking up the bandwidth with hacking attacks on DOD servers/websites.

I thought it was just all a coincidence at first too, was only blaming my ISP or cyber warfare. But then I saw the same exact issue came up in January of last year on the MWO and various ISP forums. And as I've noted and linked previously, a PGI employee responded back at that time and said he fixed the issue which had to do with the crynetwork layer.... So of course its understandable to suspect its a game issue. Especially when connections to other servers in the same area are fine.

Also interesting to note though, that i was no longer getting routed through germany all week. I was going through Kansas like everyone else and my ping has been great all week. Starting Friday, not sure if after server reset or not, I'm now routed back through Germany again...lol But I noticed everyone of my unit buddies ping dropped significantly on Friday, in general most peoples pings on server did it seems. It seems its always on Fridays, when every bodies route or load changes for some reason.....hmm.

I'm learning more and more you cannot t just blame one company and not the other when it comes to the internet. Everything is connected. Sort of like how you just can't blame the brain for what happens to the body or vice versa, its all one organism and they all affect each other, something we are learning to understand more and more. The route the game company decides to take to us could be the route we get assigned. The edge providers work hand in hand with the commerical ISP's to balance load. etc...

I'm hoping now that i've posted on the forums again, my ping doesn't get jacked again. I also started blocking all http when i play the game again, which might help with ping, but definitely seems to help with random connection losses....This was a problem after the big patch weeks ago, because i was all of a sudden forced to allow certain http in order to load the client, and my client started crashing when clicking exit button if I blocked the other http connections. But a PGI employee responded about that and said he fixed that particular bug, so now I'm back to blocking them again with no issues, minus the http address needed at the log in sreen needed to load client, but still blocking all others with no problems when exiting. Thanks to that employee(that issue is partly why i'm afraid to post on forums now lol)

Edited by RichAC, 18 January 2014 - 12:57 PM.