297 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Blacksoul1987, on 09 December 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

better win/loss rate than me I don't always have the patience

Plenty of my deaths are due to me getting bored waiting for things to happen... The team goes on to win in spite me.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 December 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Roadkill]

Sandpit, on 09 December 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Where did I say that?

The same place that I said the words you're putting in my mouth.

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YOU said a player should earn a full on Atlas in one month of play regardless of how often they played.

No I did not.

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Please tell me how ... blah blah blah

Please tell me why anyone would play a game in which it takes a full year of 40-hour weeks just to advance one level?

I never said what you're ranting about. I'm not going to "defend" your phantom accusation.

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4 hours will get you a nice custom mech. Just not an Atlas.

Really? What Mech can you buy and fully customize for 1745000 c-bills? Considering that double heat sinks are 1500000, that's only leaving 245,000 to buy the Mech. I don't think there are any that are that cheap, but maybe you know something that I don't.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 09 December 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

The same place that I said the words you're putting in my mouth.

No I did not.

Please tell me why anyone would play a game in which it takes a full year of 40-hour weeks just to advance one level?

I never said what you're ranting about. I'm not going to "defend" your phantom accusation.


Really? What Mech can you buy and fully customize for 1745000 c-bills? Considering that double heat sinks are 1500000, that's only leaving 245,000 to buy the Mech. I don't think there are any that are that cheap, but maybe you know something that I don't.

Commando(1.8 Mil), Locust(1.7Mil),Spider(w/o doubles)(2.6 Mil).4 hours i could have any one of these and probably have double sinks as well.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 December 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[DaZur]

Roadkill, on 09 December 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Actually, I disagree with your last statement. What is the point of premium if not to allow paying players to out-pace non-paying players? Isn't that precisely the point in order to encourage players to buy premium time?

Oh, definitely... a premium player should feel their investment is paying for itself. That said, it cannot be so lucrative that the non-paying player feels disenfranchised because they are not a paying player...

Like running a 220m race... If an outside lane runner comes out of the turn and is dead even with the inside lane runner... they feel they have as much a chance as anyone to win the race (even if they don't)... If that runner comes out of the turn and the inside runner is 10 years ahead of him... He knows the race is lost.

It's all about perception...

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 December 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

I can earn enough in 5-6 hours to buy a Commando. Call it 6 to have Endo and double sinks.

We've already established that you're special, Joe.

Even so, here's the problem. The Mech weight classes aren't a progression. There's absolutely no reason that anyone should expect to have to buy a Commando if what they really want to play is an Atlas.

Commandos require completely different skills than Atlases to play well. Some people like playing lights. Some people like playing assaults. Some people even like playing... (gasp)... Mediums. (shudder)

Expecting people to buy a Commando or a Locust so that they can "work their way up" to an Atlas is beyond silly. What if they hate playing lights? What if they really, truly suck at it? What if they might actually be great Atlas pilots if given the chance to pilot one? Do you really want to drive them away from the game by making them "work their way up" to an Atlas first?

I don't. I want them to play the game so that I have someone to play against. I want them to earn enough money that they feel like they can experiment with their Mechs and not have to worry about how many more matches they'll have to play to buy a PPC. I don't want it to be trivial (unless they're double-paying, in which case I don't care because they're supporting the game's development), but I do want it to be easy enough that they don't feel like it's some terrible grind just to get the Mech they want.

[Demos]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 December 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Commando(1.8 Mil), Locust(1.7Mil),Spider(w/o doubles)(2.6 Mil).4 hours i could have any one of these and probably have double sinks as well.

Yeah, as an experienced player w/ HeroMech and Premium!

4 hours are roughly 25 - 30 games, with less than 90kCB for an average player, so app. 2,5mCB.
thats a light mech with slight customizations, but no DHS

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 09 December 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

We've already established that you're special, Joe.

Even so, here's the problem. The Mech weight classes aren't a progression. There's absolutely no reason that anyone should expect to have to buy a Commando if what they really want to play is an Atlas.

Commandos require completely different skills than Atlases to play well. Some people like playing lights. Some people like playing assaults. Some people even like playing... (gasp)... Mediums. (shudder)

Expecting people to buy a Commando or a Locust so that they can "work their way up" to an Atlas is beyond silly. What if they hate playing lights? What if they really, truly suck at it? What if they might actually be great Atlas pilots if given the chance to pilot one? Do you really want to drive them away from the game by making them "work their way up" to an Atlas first?

I don't. I want them to play the game so that I have someone to play against. I want them to earn enough money that they feel like they can experiment with their Mechs and not have to worry about how many more matches they'll have to play to buy a PPC. I don't want it to be trivial (unless they're double-paying, in which case I don't care because they're supporting the game's development), but I do want it to be easy enough that they don't feel like it's some terrible grind just to get the Mech they want.

Your moving the goal post man. In 3-5 hours I can have any one of those Mechs, I can' see how i am making more than the average, as I have so many deaths an so few kills compared to the competitive types. Maybe I just know to assist to make more money instead f being a glory hound killer.

Demos, on 09 December 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Yeah, as an experienced player w/ HeroMech and Premium!

4 hours are roughly 25 - 30 games, with less than 90kCB for an average player, so app. 2,5mCB.
thats a light mech with slight customizations, but no DHS

As I pointed out in a previous Post I make more money per hour on a PUG only Alt with no Hero Mech... So try again without excuses!!!

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 December 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Commando(1.8 Mil), Locust(1.7Mil),Spider(w/o doubles)(2.6 Mil).4 hours i could have any one of these and probably have double sinks as well.

I don't think I want to throw a new player into an unmodified Locust and say "here you go, pay your dues in this before you're allowed to buy the Mech you really want."

Commando + double heatsinks + endo steel + weapons... nope, not happening in 4 hours. Nevermind the fact that it might just be a bad Mech for the person in question.

[DaZur]

Roadkill, on 09 December 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

We've already established that you're special, Joe.

Even so, here's the problem. The Mech weight classes aren't a progression. There's absolutely no reason that anyone should expect to have to buy a Commando if what they really want to play is an Atlas.

Commandos require completely different skills than Atlases to play well. Some people like playing lights. Some people like playing assaults. Some people even like playing... (gasp)... Mediums. (shudder)

Expecting people to buy a Commando or a Locust so that they can "work their way up" to an Atlas is beyond silly. What if they hate playing lights? What if they really, truly suck at it? What if they might actually be great Atlas pilots if given the chance to pilot one? Do you really want to drive them away from the game by making them "work their way up" to an Atlas first?

I don't. I want them to play the game so that I have someone to play against. I want them to earn enough money that they feel like they can experiment with their Mechs and not have to worry about how many more matches they'll have to play to buy a PPC. I don't want it to be trivial (unless they're double-paying, in which case I don't care because they're supporting the game's development), but I do want it to be easy enough that they don't feel like it's some terrible grind just to get the Mech they want.

Problem with setting the "easy bar" to the height of the Atlas (or any Assault for that matter) is the access of any class or mech below it becomes inconsequential... In short, you will devalue some heavies and all mediums and lights.

There has to be a sensible progression and a clear indicator of value and worth... Otherwise everyone will pilot an assault because they get one with a purchase of a coffee and doughnut.

Edited by DaZur, 09 December 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[Anton Shiningstar]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 December 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

As I pointed out in a previous Post I make more money per hour on a PUG only Alt with no Hero Mech... So try again without excuses!!!

Stalker and a Jager, no Founders no Heroes 149,564.42 per match average. PUG only 241W/191L & 349K/283D

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 December 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Your moving the goal post man. In 3-5 hours I can have any one of those Mechs, I can' see how i am making more than the average, as I have so many deaths an so few kills compared to the competitive types. Maybe I just know to assist to make more money instead f being a glory hound killer.

I'm using the same 87,250/match that I related elsewhere. That's what I make per match if you factor out Hero/Phoenix/Premium bonuses.

You make more than that. But like I said, you're special.

In all seriousness, though, I think you're much better at earning than the average player. Me, certainly. Should we be using math based on an established high-earner, or on something that's more accurate for the unwashed masses?

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 09 December 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

I don't think I want to throw a new player into an unmodified Locust and say "here you go, pay your dues in this before you're allowed to buy the Mech you really want."

Commando + double heatsinks + endo steel + weapons... nope, not happening in 4 hours. Nevermind the fact that it might just be a bad Mech for the person in question.

With Boot bonuses I was in a Centurion after my first 25 matches... Better starting place, Its just excuses I'm hearing.

Roadkill, on 09 December 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

I'm using the same 87,250/match that I related elsewhere. That's what I make per match if you factor out Hero/Phoenix/Premium bonuses.

You make more than that. But like I said, you're special.

In all seriousness, though, I think you're much better at earning than the average player. Me, certainly. Should we be using math based on an established high-earner, or on something that's more accurate for the unwashed masses?

Go for assists instead of kills, Team playing pays better.

[Roadkill]

Anton Shiningstar, on 09 December 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

Stalker and a Jager, no Founders no Heroes 149,564.42 per match average. PUG only 241W/191L & 349K/283D

If that's the number from your Profile stats, it's inaccurate for this discussion. That includes games played prior to the c-bill earnings nerf.

Mine says 127k/match, but after the c-bill nerf I did a test and I only earn 87,250/match. So your number is probably coming down slowly over time.

[Sandpit]

Roadkill, on 09 December 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

The same place that I said the words you're putting in my mouth.

No I did not.

Please tell me why anyone would play a game in which it takes a full year of 40-hour weeks just to advance one level?

I never said what you're ranting about. I'm not going to "defend" your phantom accusation.


Really? What Mech can you buy and fully customize for 1745000 c-bills? Considering that double heat sinks are 1500000, that's only leaving 245,000 to buy the Mech. I don't think there are any that are that cheap, but maybe you know something that I don't.

uhm I quoted YOUR post and asked you a question. I put no words in your mouth. That's exactly what you said. Word for word? Uhm I never said fully customized either. Do I always get DHS right off the bat? Nope, can I get it in another 10 matches or so (hour or so time)? Of course I can.

I took YOUR post and asked a question. I then disputed your "cbill nerf rant" and showed how it's simply not true. That's all. Your opinion on it may differ than mine but I can earn just like any other player without any kind of premium time and get just what I want without spending any cash and within a reasonable amount of time

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 09 December 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

If that's the number from your Profile stats, it's inaccurate for this discussion. That includes games played prior to the c-bill earnings nerf.

Mine says 127k/match, but after the c-bill nerf I did a test and I only earn 87,250/match. So your number is probably coming down slowly over time.

That is since March, So yeah, I guess I will need to make Another alt to get more info dang it!

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 December 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

With Boot bonuses I was in a Centurion after my first 25 matches... Better starting place, Its just excuses I'm hearing.

I did that on an alt account, too, but just barely. So now we're saying that even with the new player bonus, the best you can do is the Mech class that most consider to be the least desirable. Awesome, yeah, let's stick new players in those.

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Go for assists instead of kills, Team playing pays better.

Unfortunately you can't control Savior Kills, which is where the real money comes from. I already get lots of assists and few kills, so I have that part nailed.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 09 December 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

I did that on an alt account, too, but just barely. So now we're saying that even with the new player bonus, the best you can do is the Mech class that most consider to be the least desirable. Awesome, yeah, let's stick new players in those.

Well supposedly we want more mediums in play don't we? I have to change accounts but thanks to starting Elo Being in a Medium was not that punishing. (My Cent play was prior to the stats page creation as Joe).

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Unfortunately you can't control Savior Kills, which is where the real money comes from. I already get lots of assists and few kills, so I have that part nailed.

I on't get to many savior kills either

[Roadkill]

Sandpit, on 09 December 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

uhm I quoted YOUR post and asked you a question. I put no words in your mouth. That's exactly what you said.

Not it is not. Sorry, but you're just making **** up at this point. Where did I say that someone who plays 1 hour per week should be able to buy an Atlas in 1 month?

I didn't. YOU DID.

You're drawing an extreme conclusion from a generalization and substituting that for my statement. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

[Anton Shiningstar]

My Centurions are at a 1.0 W/L and a 1.3 K/ Average on three Chassis.

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 December 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

That is since March, So yeah, I guess I will need to make Another alt to get more info dang it!

Nah, just run a test set like I did. Record your stats, run a bunch of games, record new stats, do the math. That's where my 87,250 number comes from. Well, that and a bit more math to compute out the Phoenix bonuses I got in 16 of the 30 matches.

But regardless, the real problem is that you don't seem to realize that you're really pretty good at this game. I've played with you once or twice in random drops. Neither of us is 1%-er good, but we don't suck. So I really don't think you can expect new players, or even average players, to be able to earn as fast as either of us does.