232 replies to this topic

[TheRealPope478]

My 2 cents.

PGI is trying to implement a system of game balancing which the player base has demanded, then they get blasted or it.

The dev that posted the original thread is probably working long hours under a lot of pressure so forgive the dude if you can't understand some simple concepts like "the numbers in brackets are subject to change."

Also I could be wrong but the vote is for if you want to play a certain map or not. i.e. Terra therma, Alpine, or pay a fee to get 2 new options. 4 people pick Terra, 8 people pick alpine, 12 pay to get 2 new choices. (cbills OR mc). At that point ONLY the12 who voted for change get charged and EVERYONE gets 2 new map choices OR pay more to choose again, I think this will be a great way to run things once its implemented. The price will keep the number of map changes down, and in reality I doubt many people will be willing to pay to get a new choice of 2 maps. And since it will take a majority of players willing to pay to get 2 new options I doubt it happen very often. {Most people will be glad to NOT get terra therma.}

As I said I could be wrong about but I'm pretty sure you will still be able to pick which game mode you are launching for since the dev mentioned a new skirmish aka team deathmatch mode and left it at that.

I agree with all the people who say the cbill incentive for a quick ready should be individual and not for everyone getting readied up. It will go a lot further towards the goal of quicker ready times WITHOUT feeding trolls.

As for the weight limit I have a few ideas and forgive me if the are already posted. the dev mentioned 8 slots in a players personal dropship. I would recommend making it 12 slots with the extra 4 being permanently assigned to the trial mechs. Therefore a player will ALWAYS have smaller mechs present and none of this "I ONLY have atlas" garbage. if 2 or more players are above weight at end of timer and refuse to switch, then BAM all of them get assigned a smaller trial mech based on remaining weight available. i.e. 120 tons left. 2 atlas refusing to switch, BAM they get the trial dragon instead. 3 refusing to switch. BAM they get the blackjack. Over time even the most pig headed people will get the picture.

I do honestly think that the end weight limits will be pretty high due to practicality though. How will PGI ever sell a widowmaker for cash money if you can't play a 100 ton clan mech EVER?

So in conclusion I'm actually VERY excited about this announcement and eager to see how PGI implements these features.

feel free to quote, troll, poke, or over think my post to your hearts content since I will likely NEVER read your response.

[Fooooo]

Hmm, Shuffling in other fps's usually just shuffles the current teams around.

So if the first match was lop-sided, you could vote to shuffle on the next one (if the 2 teams stayed around for a 2nd match like it was said you could do). There-by hopefully getting a fairer match.

However by the way it was worded it was hard to tell if they mean its a shuffle of the 2 teams current players, Or a shuffle to a NEW match with a totally new opposing team. (your team stays the same, just a new opponent)

[3endless8oogie]

So we have a broken matchmaking and pgi wants to make it über-broken?

[Olio Y Olivio]

This seems like a slow and complicated process which is likely to create a bad atmosphere inside a team before the match is even started. I can see the horrible shouting and name calling in the chat already.

The main problem is that these decisions (the map, game mode, and team composition) should not be done by players. They should be made by the matchmaker instead.

These problems are not unique to MWO but have been solved successfully in other games already.

• Choosing a map: The problem to be solved is that some players want to avoid certain maps. This is solved perfectly in Company of Heroes: the player can blacklist a maximum of [2] maps before launching the game. The matchmaker picks a map at random and choses from the pool of players that have not have this map blacklisted. Players that blacklist maps are slightly penalized as it takes slightly longer on average to be matched.
  
• Game mode: This is already solved: the player can choose a game mode before launching. Players that are available for any game mode are already rewarded as their games launch faster on average.
  
• Team composition: This is a typical problem in MMORPGs: most players prefer to play DPS classes, and there is a lack of tanks and healers. This is similar to our overabundance of heavies and assaults. This is usually solved by by predefining availability ranges for each class: for example each team should have between 2-4 lights, mediums, heavies and assaults. If you pick a less popular class (eg a light) you are rewarded as your game starts more quickly as the matchmaker can slot you right in. If you play a heavy or assault you will have to wait a few minutes before your game launches while you work your way through the queue.

[Papaspud]

I guess people like me that run MOSTLY light and medium mechs are going to be prized team mates, so other people can run their big fatties....hahahaha.

I just don't see how this is going to work, sounds like a major pain in the behind just to get a drop going, it already takes too long between matches. ELO matching, faction matching, weight matching- then finding enough players to fill this....... my instincts say this isn't going to be pretty.

[BeezleBug]

Big Plans...yeah saw this before^^ The ELO and the Matchmaking doesnt work @ all, and now PGI is telling me that they will dev a system that is much more complicated^^
It is allways the same, Big Plans and nothing really works, PGI cant even get the system that is now running to work properly.
The last time they announced CW (launch party) they said "We will do this in 6 month!^^ i dont believe anything anymore, show me results, the time for promises is over.
in my opinoin PGI is not capable to make a CW that will work, this will be a arcarde shooter with robots, forever. I could be wrong but results will decide this, not some promises.

[fil5000]

BeezleBug, on 08 December 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

Big Plans...yeah saw this before^^ The ELO and the Matchmaking doesnt work @ all, and now PGI is telling me that they will dev a system that is much more complicated^^
It is allways the same, Big Plans and nothing really works, PGI cant even get the system that is now running to work properly.
The last time they announced CW (launch party) they said "We will do this in 6 month!^^ i dont believe anything anymore, show me results, the time for promises is over.
in my opinoin PGI is not capable to make a CW that will work, this will be a arcarde shooter with robots, forever. I could be wrong but results will decide this, not some promises.

This new system isn't actually more complicated than the current one, because it relies entirely on the players to do all the work. If they go ahead with this, they're offloading the difficulty of correctly matching mechs by class/tonnage onto the players at the start of every match.

[Sandtiger]

Is there a way I can get my money back for all of the mechs that I purchased that are assault class? Now that you have effectively made it so that me and my friends cannot play an assault lance like we wanted, I would like all of the money that I pumped into this game returned. I will gladly close my account in exchange for my reimbursement.

P.S. When I go, my entire clan will be leaving with me. They have asked if they can get a similar deal?

[anonymous161]

3endless8oogie, on 07 December 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

So we have a broken matchmaking and pgi wants to make it über-broken?

Yeah pretty much. It's damn near unplayable now, once in a whle you will have a balanced team tonnage wise, but then the assaults turn out to be less effective and do less damage than the lights then ti still turns into a crappy game.

I forsee this bringing even more problems and causing even more harm to the game than it already isn't giving. I hardly doubt this game is seeing great times right now. Enough players have simply left I'm sure their wallots are starting to dry up from all the hookers they are hiring to keeping themselves entertained at the office.

Also what other game in history has charged you to skip a certain map? Every game I have played gave you the option to skip a certain map by votes, kinda like this but without charging you for it...so freaking stupid. I honestly just counting the days till this game is finally just shut down due to the massive stupidity of these developers.

Sandtiger, on 09 December 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Is there a way I can get my money back for all of the mechs that I purchased that are assault class? Now that you have effectively made it so that me and my friends cannot play an assault lance like we wanted, I would like all of the money that I pumped into this game returned. I will gladly close my account in exchange for my reimbursement.

P.S. When I go, my entire clan will be leaving with me. They have asked if they can get a similar deal?

They dont give you refunds over something like this. Hell I doubt they would even if you told them it was unauthorized.

You honestly should know better by this time the reputation of these devs and how they have been handling this game should have told you to be on your toes.

Man I thought the clans would cause people to mass quit but this might do it. Mind you I rather see this game to great things but...I dont see anything great happening yet.

Oh god I just had a thought. They talked about implementing a repair bay in the field perhaps...man they are totally gonna charge us money for that so I doubt we will see that actually used or now that I think about it ever implemented.

They like to say hey good idea but then totally forget about it.

Edited by Darth Bane001, 09 December 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Sandtiger, on 09 December 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Is there a way I can get my money back for all of the mechs that I purchased that are assault class? Now that you have effectively made it so that me and my friends cannot play an assault lance like we wanted, I would like all of the money that I pumped into this game returned. I will gladly close my account in exchange for my reimbursement.

P.S. When I go, my entire clan will be leaving with me. They have asked if they can get a similar deal?

You will still be able to run your assault lance ... with eight other friends in the 12-man queue who are willing to ton down a bit (my team would love to see you there) ... or you can try and set up a no weight limit private match (have fun with that).

There are currently over 100 variants to choose from ... PGI's goal should not be "Assault Warrior: Online", but to make as many of the chassis and variants viable as possible. When matchmaker pits a heavy team (especially on assault) or a light team (especially on conquest) against a middle-weight team, the outcome is usually pretty obvious.

I think a good target for weight limits is probably between 660 tons to 780 tons for a 12-'mech company. For a lance, it should be a little less restrictive ... maybe 180-300 ... that would allow two max ton lances and one min ton lance to match up, or two min ton lances and one max ton lance, while still offering some flexibility.

I expect that there will still be a pure random queue, not associated with community warfare, where anyone can bring whatever they want into a quick match, but I also expect that PGI will do their best to incentivize Community Warfare as much as possible.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 09 December 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Flyto]

If one player being slow costs everybody money, I forsee an *awful* lot of rage and abuse happening...

[elsie]

I almost prefer the method from back in closed beta; if I bring an assault, they would have an assault. If my group had 2 lights and 2 mediums, they would have the same (or at least close to it). They could use that initially then try to match up using Elo for the various pilot (ie assault pilot with Elo of 1450 might have on the opposing team an assault pilot with Elo of 1300-1500).

That way there wouldn't have to be all the negotiating and jockeying for weight restrictions and people wouldn't feel like they're getting pushed into mechs they don't want to run. Sure, my group could bring 4 assaults, but that would mean we would be facing 4 assaults as well.


elsie

[Li Song]

White Bear 84, on 02 December 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

At the end of the day *no offense intended* you just cannot rely on individual pugs to work as a team or follow through on these things. PGI seem to be putting a lot of trust and power in the hands of singular players with this. Bad idea.

This! Also I fear that "that crappy assault pilot who barely does 100 damage in a hgn-733" will insist to play said hgn-733 because "it's the best" resulting in wasted tonnage and lots of QQ at the end of the match. Please let us choose our tonnage up front and pick players to make a team that meets the tonnage limit. Assault queue will be longer but that a price you have to pay to play your over weight Roquefort. Want a quick game? take a medium or light.

[Rebas Kradd]

1. The moment you start forcing players to choose undesirable/unfamiliar Mechs, whether for weight balancing or any other purpose, you'll truly be tanking your game in earnest. It doesn't matter whether it's by capping dropship limit or forcing trial mechs to be used. You can't step on people's freedom to play their favorite mechs. You don't get to go there. You'll kill your game. There's no easy solution to the issue of unbalanced matches, but most people are accepting the current system with all its flaws. Using weight balancing will inevitably pigeonhole people into mechs they don't want and make the situation worse than it is. As epic as the 2013 Complaining Campaign Over Unbalanced Matches has been, you ain't seen nothing until the complaints that will arise over weight matching. If you want to promote the medium/heavy classes, do the hard work and optimize/incentivize them. It's far, far better to tread on players' luck (i.e. the current system) than it is to tread on their freedom and personality. This move is a game-breaker.

2. You can't CB-bribe or otherwise rush Phase Two (i.e. the mech selection phase after matchmaking and player voting). Pug or not, some people will still want to make plans for their team. It's one of the core moments of collaborative gaming, held in almost mythic awe by your ordinary gamer. Think of the notoriously nerdy segment of the Leroy Jenkins clip BEFORE Leroy actually rushed in. The obsessive, meticulous preparation/strategizing/second-guessing would have lasted probably another ten minutes if not for his impatience. We're gamers. We love this stuff. It's what we remember years later - the interaction, not the actual matches. My guild often takes 20 minutes to organize and prepare for a 10 minute match. You could at least give us 3 minutes, given that plans tend to change utterly and completely for each mech swap we make. This is also the "meet new people and make friends" stage that you're shortchanging by bribing people with C-bills to speed it up. Add to that AFKers will now have the power to actually delay the match rather than just leave the team down a man, and I'd suggest you just dump the C-bill bonus entirely. It goes against the gamer philosophy in several ways.


3. I don't care if the 480 is only a placeholder. It's so certain to change that it boggles the mind why PGI started there in the first place. If you want to take a serious stab at matchmaking, start with a cap that's just a bit under the current per-match average (which is probably around 900 with all the ******* Jagers around). But even then, again, matchmaking won't work because it takes the choice out of the player's hands. Under the current system, people can choose an Atlas and the matchmaker will still find them a match. Best of both worlds. God, this weight-matching thing makes the current system look like heaven.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 11 December 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[Bilaz]

Why all this? i have chosen mech i want to use in setup i like before i pressed launch. i dont want to spend time before launch refitting for each map and/or waiting for other players to refit, i dont want to huggle with other players to fit into weight limit.
Say i happen to be paired with 11 atlas lovers - and limit is 400 tons. HOW are we going to choose who is piloting atlas and who does not? i refuse to pilot something other than x, he refuse to pilot something other than y - how we negotiate - by screaming in text chats or by claiming mechs in some order ? and how can we be sure that player who does not have the ability to choose something that he wants wont just quit. Whole idea is absurd and would be extremely hard to make it so that everyone pilots what they want AND both teams have similar weight limit.

I think that public match must be zero effort zone. I press button and then i play. i dont care where, i dont care with whom - all i care is that both teams have equal tonnage and similar skill (would be nice if mechs also have more or less same xp in them). If i want something more - i go and get in lance or 12v12 - and there and then i'm ready to negotiate, have weight limits, votes, voice comms and all that jazz.
But to spend time and effort negotiating with people i hardly know and cant expect to act in my interest EVERY time i want to play a 5-10 minute match - no, that i dont want. Its bad enough as it is - with this mandatory "ready button" wait (much better now, tho) - but devs propose to make it even worse with voting and such, adding mandatory one-two minutes to non-game time.

What public matchmaking can benefit from - is "differential" elo: players from different timezones have different skill, in different mech's i show different results, in lance and solo - i also show different results. So elo must take all that into account when matching me against other players. Not one elo that somehow can represent all that in one number, but something more complicated.

[Creasy Bear]

In my opinion, it makes only sense if you vote in team about the map you like to play, not the mechs.
And this should be easy and fast. You hit the Launch button and the programm selects (via random) two maps you can play the next game. You have twenty seconds for the players to vote for "alpin" or "terra". If you´re not able to make your decision in this time - youre voice don´t count. I don´t like this shuffle for money thing. It costs time to search new players, if some shuffle to another map. I don´t wanna wait two minutes to get a proper match.
And if you have to balance the weight of the mechs better: use the dropship-bays before someone launch the game. Lets say you give every mech pilot 8 dropship-bays and he has to fill it, before he can use the launch button. If he doesn´t have so much mechs he can use the trial mechs. If you give the pilot a weightlimit of lets say 480 tons for his 8 dropship bays alltogether he can decide which mechs he wanna use, but have to live with the fact that he has to put in some lighter mechs if he wanna take his atlas on the journey. Then if the map is voted, let the program choose out of your dropship-bays which mech you have to use in the next match. This should make the whole thing a lot faster and prevent a lot of silly diskussions.
Maybe you could give the pilots at about twenty seconds to change the mech the program selected, against another mech (of his dropship-bay) in the the same weight to elaborate with the heat, or the landscape of the chosen map.

And please give us a button at the end of the match, where we could choose to stay together with the comrades of the last match.

[East Indy]

Late to the party, but guys — forcing players to work around a stubborn premade of Atlases is bad-idea jeans.

Paul's initial, party-based suggestion had a lot of promise. To influence solo players, you can always quietly prioritize based on ideal tonnage, so the guy running 50-65 will wait a little less than the guy who just has to play his Boar's Head.

Edit: If you really wanted selection in the lobby, it'd make more sense if you combined the ideas. Premades must meet limits, but the swapping within premades is done in the pregame lobby so everyone can see what others (whether a pair or a group of 9) are doing.

Some guy in one premade pulls out a Raven and announces that it's a spotter for LRM boats; a guy in another premade tells his buddies, "Hey, let me try my BLR-1S boat for this one." He and his friends already have a few setups of different 'Mechs they like to play, and friends are usually more than happy to oblige, so they make the switches necessary to meet limits.

Edited by East Indy, 12 December 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[elzock]

Sandtiger, on 09 December 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Is there a way I can get my money back for all of the mechs that I purchased that are assault class? Now that you have effectively made it so that me and my friends cannot play an assault lance like we wanted, I would like all of the money that I pumped into this game returned. I will gladly close my account in exchange for my reimbursement.

P.S. When I go, my entire clan will be leaving with me. They have asked if they can get a similar deal?

I think it would be nice to only let the premade groups decide to play with or without this Limit. So this hole CW should be primary for 12 man premades, that can decide their tactics and tonnage loadout during the preparation of the groups. This should easily be done and there is the chance to let PGI overthink the hole private stuff. The matchmaker could be improved over time to get this in private drops done in getting practical experience with hole groups.
AND remember : we all like to play this game, so we should give PGI a real chance to get this done. If you guys leave MW:O just because of that there will not be another Mech-Game ! So, be patient and do not cry to much before there are realized and official decisions made.
I'm pretty sure they're reading all of ur posts to get ideas and suggestions from the comunity, so stay a the facts and we all will benefit form the CW and the tonnage Limit!

So: 12 man premades ----> Tonnage limit
Private Players ----> No tonnage limit

P.s.: They done this game good so far and i can't await any new content in this game...

Edited by elzock, 14 December 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[Sandtiger]

elzock, on 14 December 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

I think it would be nice to only let the premade groups decide to play with or without this Limit. So this hole CW should be primary for 12 man premades, that can decide their tactics and tonnage loadout during the preparation of the groups. This should easily be done and there is the chance to let PGI overthink the hole private stuff. The matchmaker could be improved over time to get this in private drops done in getting practical experience with hole groups.
AND remember : we all like to play this game, so we should give PGI a real chance to get this done. If you guys leave MW:O just because of that there will not be another Mech-Game ! So, be patient and do not cry to much before there are realized and official decisions made.
I'm pretty sure they're reading all of ur posts to get ideas and suggestions from the comunity, so stay a the facts and we all will benefit form the CW and the tonnage Limit!

So: 12 man premades ----> Tonnage limit
Private Players ----> No tonnage limit

P.s.: They done this game good so far and i can't await any new content in this game...

They have done this game good so far?!?!?!???? What are you smoking? And I am crying.... Your right, two wrongs don't make a right. People like you whine about everything, it gets Nurfed, then people like me cry about it. Evil begets evil I suppose.

Most of my clan has already left. The devs have Nurfed everything in this game "in the name of balance" to the point where most of the joy is gone. And actually their is another mech game. Mechwarrior living legends. Here is the link. http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/
I was sooo excited to see the clans come out. But after the tonnage limits, the gauss rifles, the jump jets, seismic sensors, etc.... I REFUSE to give PGI another penny. Their just going to Nurf the clans after you pay the grossly insane $500.00 dollars for the top end of the package. That is of course for those of you who can and will actually afford that. oh, it will be cool for the first week or two, after that. I will bet real money they go straight to scrap. My mates and I are only on to see if one day they come to their senses and turn the game around. Until then, I will be at the aforementioned link. Enjoying the company of REAL mechwarriors. (this is not aimed at those with a passion for this game, this is aimed at those that believe that everything in war is equal, and will punish those of us because we are better pilots through their incessant whining, and Dev nagging)

[Sandtiger]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 09 December 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

You will still be able to run your assault lance ... with eight other friends in the 12-man queue who are willing to ton down a bit (my team would love to see you there) ... or you can try and set up a no weight limit private match (have fun with that).

There are currently over 100 variants to choose from ... PGI's goal should not be "Assault Warrior: Online", but to make as many of the chassis and variants viable as possible. When matchmaker pits a heavy team (especially on assault) or a light team (especially on conquest) against a middle-weight team, the outcome is usually pretty obvious.

I think a good target for weight limits is probably between 660 tons to 780 tons for a 12-'mech company. For a lance, it should be a little less restrictive ... maybe 180-300 ... that would allow two max ton lances and one min ton lance to match up, or two min ton lances and one max ton lance, while still offering some flexibility.

I expect that there will still be a pure random queue, not associated with community warfare, where anyone can bring whatever they want into a quick match, but I also expect that PGI will do their best to incentivize Community Warfare as much as possible.

No, PGI's goal should be to realize that tonnage limits will kill their game. Tonnage limits really? You honestly think that just because some players outweigh others, that it makes them better players? Tell you what, if I haven't completely thrown my hands up in the air with this game by the time we can actually have private matches. You choose any assault you want, and I will take you down in my Raven. Then after that, you will have to find a new way to whine to the Devs about how unfair the game is. =p