106 replies to this topic

[Flitzomat]

NuclearPanda, on 13 December 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

I'd like to ask the Devs to lock the thread down anyways. This is going nowhere at the moment and honestly you're just antagonizing people with troll behavior.

Total support, especially as your problems with LRMs have absolutely nothing to do with the patch and even your original post doesn´t refer to the patch.

[Metalsand]

I'm sorry, but WHAT? I have a Heavy Metal build that has dual AC5, twin ER LLasers, and a LRM15 but typically the LRM15 does half the damage of a round. If you are so bad at this game that you can't even use LRMs you should uninstall now.

[NuclearPanda]

Flitzomat, on 13 December 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

Total support, especially as your problems with LRMs have absolutely nothing to do with the patch and even your original post doesn´t refer to the patch.

Already reported for lockdown.

[StalaggtIKE]

LRM viability is directly influenced by the abilities of your enemy. Basically LRM become less effective as you climb Elo.

Thorqemada, on 07 December 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

PS: The sad state of LRMs is that you need to exploit them badly to get any use out of them which only leads to further nerfing...while making small and healthy LRM-Setups total invalid.
You can allways make use of 1 ML or 1 AC but 1x LRM5 or 1x LRM10 and even 1x LRM15 is nothing but fluff and a game of luck if you get any use out of it.

This pretty much sums it up. The fact that you must go all in to make LRM viable means something is wrong. You should carry BAP, TAG and an excessive amount of ammo. All the while can be neutralized by a 1.5 ton box.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 13 December 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[Wrathful-Khan]

StalaggtIKE, on 13 December 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

The fact that you must go all in to make LRM viable means something is wrong.

I don't necessarily believe it does. Most viable mech builds are made to perform a specific role. This becomes even more evident at high level play. There are less jack-of-all trades builds and far more specialists.

Tactics is the art of making all of these specialists worth far more than the sum of the parts.

In battle its rarely a case of mech A vs mech B. It's Mech A, B, C and D vs Mech W, X, Y and Z.

As for the complaints about 'teamplay' being a cheap tactic that the OP refuses to participate in, it's just something you have to deal with at the top. Adapt and join a team yourself or continue to rage about OP 4 man drops.

[Ziogualty]

Jun Watarase, on 12 December 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

You can do well with anything in a teamspeak lance. Even small pulse lasers. This proves nothing.

TAG or Narc affecting lasers?
I must have missed some patches...
People keeping target locked helps small pulse lasers?
hmmm..nay.

Man, just chill out and think about it.
At least try the suggestions people are giving you.

Mine is:
Work on your weight and equip Artemis.
Save some GPX for target retention and sensor range.
Join some mate that knows the maps and is able to keep a target locked when LRM boats have line of fire.
Join some mate with TAG equipped or equip it yourself.

I can bet everything i have you'll notice some difference between LRMs and small lasers....

Edited by Attank, 13 December 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Zeece]

I love my 4XLRM15 Battlemaster... a Bad match for me is 500 damage... I really don't see why people are complaining about LRMs.

[Abivard]

OP is funny.
But OP hasn't a clue,
Pity the poor OP, Doomed to hide behind rocks from the useless LRM fire while his team is destroyed one by one, because they are always low ELO newbs he is teamed with, but OP always faces sync dropping premades with high ELO and teamwork, but they use the totally ineffective LRM's, which for some reason OP is so frightened of he seems to hide behind rock until his team is dead and the others hunt him down.

Yep, sounds like a personal problem to me.

[Dantiger]

Indiandream, on 13 December 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

I don't necessarily believe it does. Most viable mech builds are made to perform a specific role. This becomes even more evident at high level play. There are less jack-of-all trades builds and far more specialists.

Tactics is the art of making all of these specialists worth far more than the sum of the parts.

In battle its rarely a case of mech A vs mech B. It's Mech A, B, C and D vs Mech W, X, Y and Z.

As for the complaints about 'teamplay' being a cheap tactic that the OP refuses to participate in, it's just something you have to deal with at the top. Adapt and join a team yourself or continue to rage about OP 4 man drops.

while I agree with you, I can understand what the guy above is saying.
the only viable way to use LRMs is to dedicate your mech to that role. LRM as secondary weapon is waste of tons. and when the devs make the weapon useful when using small quantities, they become unbelievably powerful powerful. and when they make them good in high quantities, they become completely worthless when using small quantities. that is the only weapon that is like that...

but when you need to spend at least 25 tons on a weapon and the max DPS possible is something close to 10 (considering that the damage will spread through the entire mech), and that you will probably depend on your team to protect you and to give you targets... you can see that its not the best way to play the game
you don't need 4 PPCs to be usefull with energy weapons, why LRM need to be like that ?

as I said somewhere, the best way to give the LRM some usefulness is to make the spread vary depending on the number of missiles fired at the same time. so a single LRM15 will do a considerable amount of damage to one or two parts of the mech, but if you fire 3 or 4 LRM15 the same damage will spread through the entire mech. so multiple LRMs will be the top notch on the support role and it may not get kills but it will get a crazy amount of damage and will make the job of the rest of the team way easier. but you still will be able to use a single LRM15 to soften the enemy mech before the brawl.

perhaps one or two LRM (semi)boat will be mandatory on each match... but ECM and AMS is already like that, so what is the problem ?

and it would be nice if the LRMs didn't fired all at the exactly same time, it would look really cool if they fired out of sync like a Hwacha
another thing that would help is make the missiles gain speed with time

Edited by Dantiger, 13 December 2013 - 01:11 PM.

[Mizore]

Flitzomat, on 13 December 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

As an Atlas you are a very slow LRM carrier and dependent on some comrades that back you up. Try it with a Catapult or smth more agile.

I often play my Founders Catapult-C1 with 4x MedLasers and 2xALRM 15...
Sometimes I do very good, especially when there's few or no ECM, but as soon as it's a regular game and the enemy has about 2-3 ECMs, it's getting really hard to even get a lock.

I also often try to get a good position to shoot, but if you're running around on your own, then you are easy prey for light mechs. => "Your own fault, fool! Better stick with the team!"
And when I try to stick with the team, then it mostly ends up with ecm/jumpsniper-madness and I'm not able to get good locks. => "Your own fault, fool! Look for a good position!"

You see? Using LRMs in the current meta is very funny, doesn't matter what I do, everything is wrong when you listen to other peoples hints!

But what about using TAG?
Nice joke! When you tell that to someone that drives a C1 then you maybe have never played one before.
Thanks to the very small pitch angle, you can't tag someone who's under ECM-protection and standing up on a hill or down in a valley.
It's not that I've never tried to play with TAG, but in the C1 it was so useless in most situations, that I switched it back to a MedLaser again.

Flitzomat, on 13 December 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

If you play your LRM boat in a way that snipers constantly hit you, then you are playing it wrong. Sorry for being rude, but it's as simple as that.
If you fire at fast mechs like cicadas and wonder why you don´t do damage, well they are too fast.

Yay, LRMs are soooo cool and easy to use!
You just have to pay attention to very few things like:


* you need many many LRM-launchers to be viable, at least 40, better: 45+
(Best solution: Take an assault mech! There are too few of them on the battlefield anyways!)

* you need many many tons of ammo (because assaults have tons of armor and nearly
everything else is so fast, that only few LRMs hit the target.)

* you also need:
- BAP
- TAG (mandatory!!!! And a mech that has a energy-slot in an arm, everything else is ********!)
- target retention module and sensor range module
- UAV
- Artemis

* can be easily countered by:
- ECM
- taking cover (thanks to the missile-warning and the low flight speed, you have plenty of time)
- speed
- make use of the minimum range
- AMS

* don't use them:
- against light mechs and fast medium mechs (so that's about 1/3 of the enemy team)
- in 12 vs 12 games
- in higher elo PUG-games (people have learned to avoid them)
- against jumpsnipers
- targets that are behind cover
- on NARCed targets twice, because the signal is gone after the first salvo

* if you don't get a lock by your teammates, try to get a lock by yourself

* if you get killed while trying to get a lock by yourself, because of all that AC/PPC-snipers
=> "l2p, noob!"

* if you get killed while trying to get a lock by yourself, because of enemy lights
=> "l2p, noob!"

* if you complain about ECM being too strong
=> "l2p, noob!"

* oh, and never forget to bring some mates along, otherwise LRMs could be quite useless!


You see? LRMs are totally fine... no complaints about them^^

Edited by Mizore, 13 December 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[Wrathful-Khan]

enemy mech in the open
Unleash hell

enemy mech brawling with a friendly
Unleash hell

The psychological factor of LRMs is perhaps even of more use than the actual damage. They can keep the enemy suppressed and prevent them from moving freely around the map, therefore giving the initiative to your own team.

Are LRMs the best weapon in the game? - No

Can you dominate every match - No

Are they highly situational - Yes

Easy to lean, hard to master - Definitely

are they completely useless - No. For the guy crazy enough to use them properly, they are an asset to the team.

As the only long range indirect fire weapon, they shouldn't be any stronger than they already are or that would even further promote the "siege mentality" that the OP dislikes so much.

[Krysic]

For a lark I equipped my OXIDE with 2 LRM 5s. I proceeded to spend 3 matches trying it out and the results were interesting. in one match on river city, due to the amount of cover available. I fired 700 missles from what I thought were positive angles toward 2 fully engaged, non AMS heavy mechs and did a total of 74 damage.

The next two matches maxed out at 120-200 damage, including one where I pounded the hell out of a jagermech that was obviously a newbie as he sat wide out in the open and barely moved (he had no AMS either). It appears that if I'm moving fast and my missles come at the enemy from a side angle they have a different effect than if the volley comes straight down. Weird.

Please note that I'm not attempting to claim intimate knowledge of the mechanics of the missles I just find that between the random nature of match ups in pugs there is no way to reliably use the missles as ECM volume and map cover are impossible to predict. In my lights I greatly fear LRMS as they seem to tear me up good but I'll be ****** if I can figure out how to use them effectively if I'm not part of a premade lance.

[Edit] Sorry I should clarify by saying LRMs are awesome if I'm between 180m - 300m (not really that long range) and looking right at the guy while he shoots someone else but in any other scenario I feel like I may as well be tossing confetti on the battleground and hoping someone trips on it. [/Edit]

Edited by Krysic, 15 December 2013 - 02:34 AM.

[Arcadies]

How much damage are you all doing per match with LRMs?

Thats whats not being said here. All I've seen is one pic of two people doing around 1000 damage each. Thats crazy to me. I've never seen 1000 damage.



So, spill it. Screenshot it. How much damage are you doing with LRMs?


EDIT: This is a game I just played. This is the upper end for me, but not the most I've seen out of my CPLT-C1.

Edited by Arcadies, 15 December 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Rumble Chicken]

Dudes! For those who think Lrm's are not working run a dragon and experiment with the available avionics /modules. Now then enemy locks on you and lrms start flying and come and come behind building some get through "ugh" behind rocks your arms get blown off by Lrm's ...oh yea how about shutdown to diffuse lock? flip coin turn back on and locks are still .... a nice symphonic of chained Lrm's destroy ..uhmmm DESTROY dest etes Dragon ps even when a DC ecm and three other AMS equipped mechs are within 150m Dragons fear Lrm's ask others who know how to use em' So..... Lrm's rock Dragons anyways I hate em ,,,lrm's that iz ..Peace

[C E Dwyer]

lrms are not useless its the pilots.

how many assault boat hide behind a rock of right behind you where they can't see jack.

and either spam missiles into your back(fortunately they havn't armed) or into the side of a mountain which of course they are not aware of because they are hid down a gully

[Mizore]

Arcadies, on 15 December 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

How much damage are you all doing per match with LRMs?

Thats whats not being said here. All I've seen is one pic of two people doing around 1000 damage each. Thats crazy to me. I've never seen 1000 damage.



So, spill it. Screenshot it. How much damage are you doing with LRMs?


EDIT: This is a game I just played. This is the upper end for me, but not the most I've seen out of my CPLT-C1.

I know, sometimes I also perform like this in my Catapult-C1 under certain circumstances... but honestly, how many ECMs were in the enemy team?
Ah, I see... zero ECM.
And how many AMS? I guess about 2-3.

But as soon as there are some ECM-mechs in the enemy team, then LRMs really become nearly useless.
You can try as hard as you want, but as long as the enemy team doesn't make big mistakes like splitting up all over the map, you'll stay useless and maybe get out with about 200 damage at all.

[St4LkeRxF]

Mizore, on 15 December 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

I know, sometimes I also perform like this in my Catapult-C1 under certain circumstances... but honestly, how many ECMs were in the enemy team?
Ah, I see... zero ECM.
And how many AMS? I guess about 2-3.

But as soon as there are some ECM-mechs in the enemy team, then LRMs really become nearly useless.
You can try as hard as you want, but as long as the enemy team doesn't make big mistakes like splitting up all over the map, you'll stay useless and maybe get out with about 200 damage at all.

ECM and AMS are in game as Anti missile defense, so that part of balance work to some degree.Even if you don't make much damage with LRMs due to ECM or AMS you still are addition to your team as you are still able to suppress enemy team to stay in cover and stay close to each other and that is where full potential of Arty and Air strike come.

LRMs are not useless if you are aware what they can do and capable to use it to your advantage, this is supposed to be "thinking man's shooter" after all.

[Mizore]

I have no problems with AMS (on the contrary, I really like AMS), but ECM shouldn't be like it is.
It's way too strong and prevents locks... and without locks, there's no reliable supression fire possible.
So you either need a TAG or some Teammates that counter the ECM, which is in fact a suicide commando in most cases (very many assaults with sniper weapons vs. a lonesome light mech), and then it takes so long to at least kill 1 enemy mech that's not standing still, that you spotter is dead anyways until you inflict severe damage.

[St4LkeRxF]

You drop as LRM boat and say that to a team before match starts and ask to press R or spot for you so you can give support, how many times will happen that someone actually does that?

Another thing is when people know that there is LRM boat on their team they will not lock target as that way they risk to give kill (KDR gives you godlike ability of some sort at least that is what all rambo dudes say ) to someone that is 1000 meters away, and many times they will blame you when they die in solo action, but hey if they press that damned R they could get support and live.

So if you are LRM boat (solo drop as group drop is another story) go prepared as in the end you will be left alone 90% of the time, thanks to the nature of this game.

[Thorqemada]

AMS either needs to go away (remove it from the game) or the AMS ammo needs to be reduced to 250 shots per ton.
None of this will happen...

Edited by Thorqemada, 15 December 2013 - 12:25 PM.