117 replies to this topic

[Barantor]

Marxman, on 15 November 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

When? Where? How?

I asked if Alex would be doing redesigns of the unseen in the first Q&A session and they said he would be. Should be in the announcements now under community Q&A1 I think.

Edit: Found it.

Quote

In regards to the Unseen, does this mean we will see the Marauder, Archer, and the rest of the 'Unseens'? Will they be the original formats, the 'Reseens' or will they be Alex's own variations on these iconic ‘Mechs?

[MATT N] If we are going to make any Mech, it is going to go through Alex’s treatment.

Edited by Barantor, 14 December 2011 - 09:02 AM.

[Raeven]

The Marauder and the Locust are the two redesigns I care for the least.

Fortunately, the locust can be used again.

[Alex Wolfe]

Let FlyingDebris handle them. His Jenner is a nearly complete redesign while simultaneously looking like a Jenner and making sense, my current wallpaper. I have great faith in the man.

In general Mechwarrior franchise has had a very good track run when it comes to redesigning mechs to make them look reasonable (and not like "conservative anime designs". nicely put). I want Thunderbolt, and I'm sure it can be done so that the legal stink will stop trailing behind the franchise at last.

[Hayden]

Jack Gallows, on 13 November 2011 - 10:26 PM, said:

I'm kind of torn. Some of the reseen are really good (either better then the original, or just as good) and some of them are downright ****.

Wouldn't mind being allowed to vote on which mechs get to use the reseen designs, which mechs to redesign, and which to keep the unseen look...assuming they use any of the unseen.

I am also of this mind. Some of the redesigns are righteous, especially anything beginning with "Ost", but some like the Wolverine are a total loss. Alex is a very talented artist, and I have complete faith in him to bring these back in a way that is respectful of tradition (I.E. he won't turn the Shadowhawk into Robo-Cobra Commander) while doing it in such a fashion that Harmony Gold will drop whatever beef they may still have.

EDIT: That said, I'd like the "safe" unseens (I.E. non-macross) to be relatively close to their original designs.

Edited by Hayden, 14 December 2011 - 01:23 PM.

[verybad]

Let Alex redesign them.

The original Phoenix Project artwrok by and large sucked. I'm sure Alex can make new versions that hold onto some of the "feel" I think it would be a waste of time to try and get the actual original artwork into the game, it's too convoluted, and isn't necessary for the game.

Alex is probably the TOP btech artist I've seen working in the game to date. I'm tired of the old argument. Just fix the old phoenix idea by using good artwork, and then retcon the old robotech stuff out of existence. I loved the Marauder's look, I am tired of this coming up in every forum about the future of btech/mechwarrior however.

Just fix it, be done, and PLEASE close any future threads about it, it's just old.

[Mason Grimm]

Alex, if you are out there, I am willing to proof all work concerning the Marauder. I'm just sayin!

[Alex Wolfe]

feor, on 13 November 2011 - 10:21 PM, said:

Well, some of the Unseen are 100% legal now. So anything from Crusher Joe or Dougram can be included pretty much unchanged, and should be largely untouched. (I want my big bad bfg-toting Battlemaster dangit! )

Please, anything but the gun. I'll stomach the cockroach head, but the handgun makes it one of the most out-of-the-place and obviously belonging to a different universe designs: what sense does it make that a battlemech, a machine whose sole purpose is war, would need to have a weapon modeled as a huge gun with a clip, held in hand... It's entirely redundant, like a bird with a propeller...

That Marauder redesign though... give me that and you wouldn't catch me dead piloting anything else. Once again I'm astonished at FlyingDebris' hand for catching the "spirit" of the machine - it has the low profile without being "all legs and arms, balanced by MAGIC" like the "original", it has the arms that could as well birth the Mad Cat name, and a cold, military look of the cockpit to replace the previous, somewhat goofy-looking bulbous torso. Amazing.

Never cared much for the centrally dorsal-mounted, conspicuously large cannons, but judging from the fact that pretty much the only mechs sporting them are those directly taken from Japanese mecha anime, neither did the BT's developers I suppose.Good riddance,

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 14 December 2011 - 04:11 PM.

[Artanis Creed]

Marauder and Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) are different mechs for cryin out loud... they dont even look all that similar!

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mad_Cat

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marauder

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

as for the rest of the topic, i will settle for re-design to keep harmony gold off CBT's back, the new Stone Rhino looks god awful.

i'm a bit lost here guys. is the Jenner IIC considered un-seen/re-seen since it went through a major redesign? love the original Jenner IIC design.

[Thorn Hallis]

I voted Option 1. I doubt we'll see them in MWO, but I also don't want to see them redesigned (I for myself don't like the redesigns done by Alex Iglesias).

[Dragorath]

I loved the marauder and the warhammer sniff, but a redesign is more favourable over not having the again. That were really great mechs. Rough and needed skilled pilots, that is what we need and not this smooth "oh-yes-I'll-alpha-you-back-to-terra"-mechs

[Oppi]

Artanis Creed, on 14 December 2011 - 07:41 PM, said:

Marauder and Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) are different mechs for cryin out loud... they dont even look all that similar!

I'm sorry, but they do

The IS name is "Mad Cat" because it looks like a mix of a Marauder and a Catapult (Catapult torso + missile launchers, Marauder legs and arms), so there's not much point arguing about it ...

And I demand the Marauder and the Battlemaster to be in the game. There simply are no other designs that say "Battletech" as loud as those two (at least for someone who got into it before all that Clan Invasion mess happened ^^ )

Edited by Oppi, 15 December 2011 - 06:50 AM.

[Dragorath]

Oppi, on 15 December 2011 - 06:39 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but they do

The IS name is "Mad Cat" because it looks like a mix of a Marauder and a Catapult (Catapult torso + missile launchers, Marauder legs and arms), so there's not much point arguing about it ...

And I demand the Marauder and the Battlemaster to be in the game. There simply are no other designs that say "Battletech" as loud as those two (at least for someone who got into it before all that Clan Invasion mess happened ^^ )

I AGREE!!!!!!

[PelinalWhitestrake]

im the only one here who likes of the redesigned version of warhammer for The 1st Trailer?

at least that one is better than the Moblie suit-ish classic cockpit torso

[Strum Wealh]

Hans Von Lohman, on 13 November 2011 - 10:15 PM, said:

Flying Debris has already done a Marauder Re-seen...sort of. It is on the BattleTech website, on the Universe, BattleMech Technology page.

I think it looks good myself. It is significantly different than the original as well, yet I still like this image.

MARAUDER RE-SEEN, by Flying Debris



Personally I always thought a good way to re-design the Marauder would be to take an Apache gunship, cut the tail and rotor off, then stick chicken walker legs on the bottom, move the chaingun from the bottom to the top of the rotorhead, and extend the rocket pods down on some robot arms.

As the Marauder is my personal favorite 'Mech, I must confess that despite nostalgia for the classic design, the reseen design has grown on me.

About the only issue I have with it is the actual cockpit - it is rather large and front-and-center, and seems like there's "too much glass" with the lower section.

As it happens, the Clan Shadow Cat shares the same issue (as does, albeit to a lesser degree, its successor).
(Though, I do rather like the the cockpit style of the Shadow Cat II - it's somewhere between the reseen design and the "Apache-style" aesthetic mentioned by Hans, and it is (IMO) good... )

Regardless, I've no doubt that whatever Mr. Iglesias comes up with, it will be awesome.

Also... what are the odds of seeing any of the Marauder-related 'Mechs in-game - particularly the Marauder II (3012) and the Nightstar (3036)?
And eventually the Bandersnatch (3055), the Rakshasa (3055), the Maelstrom (3058), the Dragon Fire (3058), and the Marauder IIC for the Clanners?

[Rhinehart]

My Cheif complaint with this and any other re-design of the Marauder is that it moves the AC-5 from the center top position to an offset torso location.

This was done statistically to make it compatible with the generic bipedal mech record sheet diagrams for the table top game. Surely we have moved past that arbitrary limitation, especially in a video game universe?

The center top mounted gun was one of the most distinctive features of the original design. I find it hard to believe that no re-design is possible without retaining this feature.

Please put the autocannon back on top where it belongs.

Edited by Rhinehart, 15 December 2011 - 07:01 PM.

[Mason Grimm]

I was a huge proponent of the original Marauder being as TRO 3025 was my real big leap into Battletech canon and anything other than just a set of rules etc but I also confess that the re-seen Marauder has grown on me. In fact the GRC fields 2 Marauders and 1 Marauder II in our company for the TT games.

For me the primary importance of the Marauder was a combo between the chicken walker approach AND the weapon pod arms.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I like the Marauder reseen but..I've got a huge problem with that glass cockpit. The Marauder doesn't HAVE external viewports, it's a closed cockpit, described as such in novels and the original artwork(I know, I know!) has no visible cockpit either.

[Strum Wealh]

Rhinehart, on 15 December 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:

My Cheif complaint with this and any other re-design of the Marauder is that it moves the AC-5 from the center top position to an offset torso location.

This was done statistically to make it compatible with the generic bipedal mech record sheet diagrams for the table top game. Surely we have moved past that arbitrary limitation, especially in a video game universe?

The center top mounted gun was one of the most distinctive features of the original design. I find it hard to believe that no re-design is possible without retaining this feature.

Please put the autocannon back on top where it belongs.

In a way, though, it also makes sense to have the gun off-set to ensure that the space above the cockpit is clear to allow for safe pilot ejection.

The BT rules apparently do allow for some weapons to be shared across sections.
For example, the AC-20 (10 criticals) on the Axman is shared between the CT and the RT (2 in CT, 8 in RT).
(DOES ANYONE KNOW IF/WHERE THIS RULE IS/WAS WRITTEN DOWN!? )

As the AC-5 (or most things worthy of replacing it; the most notable exceptions being the Large Laser, ER Large Laser, and Large pulse Laser) would be too large (more than two criticals) to be mounted in the CT itself by notmal BT rules, perhaps the same section-sharing rule used for the Axman could be referenced, with the AC-5 is shared between the CT and the RT (2 in CT, 2 in RT); appearance-wise, it would still be off-center, but only slightly so - enough to be noticeable and practical (see the space-to-eject argument) and copyright-friendly (*cough*Harmony Gold*cough*)?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 15 December 2011 - 07:29 PM.

[WMC Gomez]

This is the first I have seen this topic and I voted for option one. however if we can't have that, then a re-design is more than sufficient in my book. Just as long as we have them all when the game goes live that is what I want in the end.