625 replies to this topic

[GalaxyBluestar]

pbiggz, on 16 December 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Even that wouldn't get the message across. But that is exactly what will happen if clan purists get their way.

Lets face it. There is no point in debating with clan tech purists. You can reason as much as you like, but in the end they don't listen to actually logic not because they have counter arguments, but because quite simply, they choose not to listen. It is a textbook case of willful ignorance.

the guy who usually says "**** won't work" when in fact nothing of the idea has been tried and proven a failier.

c'mon guys this is a whole bunch of factions the other side of the coin and with PGI you only get 1 shot at it cause once it's done it sticks. everything should be tried and tested for the best quality in user experience or you're throwing half the game away. it's just better to do the harder things first like programming in respawns and asymetrical balance before tweaking all the IS values to half heartedly match the clan values.

ssm, on 17 December 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Coolest thing to watch would be Clan players waiting for hours for enough IS players to join to "outnumber" them.

true the player base ain't great, would proberbly be benificial to have clan vs clan and IS vs IS so that they can balance two different techs seperately and then test the IS vs Clan numbers and weight balance and by that time CW maybe done.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 17 December 2013 - 04:50 PM.

[Void Angel]

Punctuation is your friend. If you can't separate your stream of consciousness into coherent thoughts, how can we understand you?

[Morikuro]

Void Angel, on 17 December 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

• If all factions can use Clan supertech, then IS technology is wasted c-bills and time, useful only for gaining the good stuff; if only some factions can use Clan technology, then those factions will be the only factions worth playing in the long run - you might go get points in the lesser factions if their bonus is good, but you're going to focus on your Clan supertechnology sugar-daddy faction.
  
• If Clans are allowed to fight Inner Sphere, this creates a huge barrier to entry for new players. They've just gotten past the newbie grind where everyone has better 'mech stables and more experience. Now they get to go through it again, as still more experienced players start to beat the living tar out of them with a Clan-tech easymode hammer.
  
• If Clan and non-clan are segregated in matches, you're splitting the player base and creating two separate balance pools. This is resource-intensive, for no real purpose. Oh, and it breaks the lore you want to use as an excuse to re-enact the Clan invasion by turning MWO into a roleplaying supplement rather than its own game.

All of this. Dead factions in persistent territory games are never a pretty sight, and a huge imbalance for Clantech would assuredly fulfill that for at least a few of the IS factions. Also, AC/20s that can fit in any torso or arm chill the blood. I don't know what they're going to do about it, but something is going to have to be done or else a lot of new faction players will promptly quit the game after being wasted by Clanners calling them spheroid dezgra or commending their honorable deaths as they unceremoniously stomp them. Or you know, just stomped period.

While it's true that no one wants DOA mechs, this needs to be handled. People think the PPC or LRM metas were bad? They will have nothing on this.

[Strum Wealh]

Void Angel, on 17 December 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

And finally, my point seems to have whizzed by unremarked: why would you magically forbid mercenaries, whose hallmark is flexibility, from using captured Clan technology? Salvage is a part of life in the Inner Sphere, but Clan tech isn't salvageable? This is exactly the wrong way to treat lore; you're picking one convention (part of the Clan's insane tech advantage) that doesn't fit with the game format, and using it as a reason to trash multiple other conventions that are compatible. This is exactly backwards.

However, not all salvage is created equally, and not all Merc Techs have the ability to mate completely different tech bases.

Recall that in BattleTech, there was a +4 penalty for attempting to attach Clan equipment to an IS-built non-OmniTech 'Mech.

"For any attempt to use a Clan component to replace an Inner Sphere one (or vice versa), add an additional +4 modifier to reflect the basic incompatibility of the two technologies. Inner Sphere and Clan OmniPods are the exception to this rule. Equipment adapted for pod use can be interchanged with no penalty between Inner Sphere and Clan Omni units (as well as between different classes of Omni units, such as an OmniMech and an OmniVehicle)." (StratOps, pg. 182)

As such, even an elite-level technical team (with a 5+ Base Skill Target in BattleTech; see pg. 168 of StratOps) under the best of conditions (in a 'Mech factory, with access to all of the tools they could possibly want or need - which imparts a -4 modifier; see pg. 171 of StratOps) still has a roughly one-in-six chance of mucking-up the job; an average/regular technical team (TN 7+) in an average DropShip transport bay (+0 modifier) or an average field base (+1 penalty) trying to mix tech bases (+4 penalty) pretty-much can't do it (7+4 = 11, for a 8.4% chance of not botching the job; 7+1+4 = 12, for a 2.8% chance of not botching the job).

Just because one can salvage/scavenge parts off of a Bugatti Veyron doesn't necessarily mean that they can be used effectively (or at all) on an F1 racer... or a Humvee, or a Toyota Corolla.

[Guido]

DavidHurricane, on 17 December 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

No that is not what I meant. The only nerf needs to be a ridiculously high price (due to the fact that it is totally new t the IS a they only have salvage at this point). The price should gradually go down as clan tech becomes easier for 'companies' to 'manufacture'.

Then it was what you meant. Higher prices only create a larger barrier between the new players and veterans. Easy transition for FOTW builds and battle experience gives veterans a modestly large advantage as is, we don't need another barrier.

Joseph Mallan, on 17 December 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

FTFY. A new player should have a glimmer of hope that once they get their legs under them they will have a chance to win. But to walk in and think they will instantly begin winning? Well I don't know what games/sports you grew up participating in, but my experience has been that until I learned to be competent I got my but kicked. Over and over again.

That "butt-kicking" has generally been due to skill in any competitive sport/game, not due to unattainable (until finishing massive grind) equipment differences. Not only would having overpowered clan equipment be the go-to for veterans, but the FNG can gain a larger margin for winning over veteran IS players simply by playing through his wallet.

[Kilrein]

elsie, on 09 December 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

As an old time wargamer/TT player, I saw what the introduction of clan tech did to the games. The only way for the clan player to lose was if he couldn't roll the dice to save his life or he was an ***** tactician. Numerical inferiority was not a good balance factor against clans, unless it got to the point of ridiculous. For the groups I played with, it ended up broken into two basic camps: all clan or no clan. And I think the no clan group had more fun and told better stories.

Sorry, then your group wasn't playing the Clan pilots correctly. It's like anything else, if you take PART of a system and use it and ignore the rest, you're no longer consistent within the system. How about the Batchall bidding process? Zellbrigen during combat? BV balancing? Disdain for physical attacks? Lack of combined arms for most of the clans? Logistical support challenges within a Clan?

If you just grab 4 Clan mechs and put them against 4 IS mechs, it's going to go badly for the IS.

Or if you try to use arbitrary weight ratios or numerical ratios, same thing happens. Need to bring it all for it to even have a chance of having any sort of balance.

[Gaan Cathal]

Void Angel, on 17 December 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

First, no it wouldn't. Having missile launchers that weigh half of their IS equivalent, AC/20s that can fit in any arm or torso, and XLs that are not vulnerable to side-coring are worth a lot more than the proposed numerical advantage would allow. Nor is 10v12 really a good idea in the first place, once you really think about it - you can have two more teammates of varying quality, in exchange for 20% of your own personal combat power. Such a deal...

Second, you're still arguing for Clan technology to be nerfed and rebalanced - I'm not really sure what your point is, here.

And finally, my point seems to have whizzed by unremarked: why would you magically forbid mercenaries, whose hallmark is flexibility, from using captured Clan technology? Salvage is a part of life in the Inner Sphere, but Clan tech isn't salvageable? This is exactly the wrong way to treat lore; you're picking one convention (part of the Clan's insane tech advantage) that doesn't fit with the game format, and using it as a reason to trash multiple other conventions that are compatible. This is exactly backwards.

1) Ok, make it 5 vs 12 and give the Clan weapons their full potency.

2) Yes, I am. If the numbers are going to be approximately equal, then something needs to give in the name of game balance. Making weapons stat-universal is a far cleaner way to do it than arbitrarily making some clan mechs DOA and some OP (bad engine/armour vs good engine/armour).

3) Mercs with split technology was a dumb idea when it happened in TT. You can achieve asymmetric balance between two factions if you keep their resource pools separate, it's been done plenty of times before. If, however, you allow your Soviets to take British aircraft, German tanks and keep their numbers then...well. You have one ******-*** CoH mod. Clan and IS can be balanced as cohesive wholes despite granular imbalance in specific areas if there is no crossover. The only reason anyone put a Clan Anything on an Inner Sphere mech in lore was terrible writers who mary-sued their personal proxies like tech-unsavvy pervs in the face of an ISP **** ban.

Joseph Mallan, on 17 December 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

I do agree to teh limiting of the Engine/Armor/Structure, but the rest is plain stupid! Sorry Clanners, you are getting Nerfed even before you get to field your might!

Why? Clan Omnis can have their engines, armour and structure changed. It just makes them 'non-omni' in terms of weapons pods, which translate to hardpoints in MWO. That means they are reduced to the same level of customisation as an Inner Sphere mech. Changing this stuff requires a full factory refit. So, y'know. The downtime between matches, as per current IS mechs.

The worse of it is, for all that we can swap arms and side torsos around, Clan pilots will still have to buy three variants/configs anyway in order to get Elite masteries. We can just make them all look the same bar the CT. Which is absolutely not worth being restricted to the Warhawk and the Timber/Direwolves because they're the only options that come with a halfway adequate (by MWO standards) engine or armour loadout. Maybe, maybe the Stormcrow will fit in as a low-tonnage ****** heavy. But bringing a Summoner, Adder or Kit Fox will be like...well, like bringing a Locust.

Edit:

For the record, I'd personally rather proper Clan Omnimechs with proper Clan equipment dropped with a one-Star to one-Company ratio against Inner Sphere opponents. With absolutely no tech leakage and the introduction of Inner Sphere ER, Ultra and LB-X lines.

Edit 2:

That's 5 vs 12.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 17 December 2013 - 06:29 PM.

[Morikuro]

Gaan Cathal, on 17 December 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

3) Mercs with split technology was a dumb idea when it happened in TT. You can achieve asymmetric balance between two factions if you keep their resource pools separate, it's been done plenty of times before. If, however, you allow your Soviets to take British aircraft, German tanks and keep their numbers then...well. You have one ******-*** CoH mod. Clan and IS can be balanced as cohesive wholes despite granular imbalance in specific areas if there is no crossover. The only reason anyone put a Clan Anything on an Inner Sphere mech in lore was terrible writers who mary-sued their personal proxies like tech-unsavvy pervs in the face of an ISP **** ban.

Using the other side's equipment happens all the time in war. Just one example is ww2: the Germans had a giant, giant grabbag of captured equipment, and so did the Soviets. And one thing those two militaries had in common with mercenary units is they never had enough or perfect equipment: production runs had constant shortfalls (especially for the Wehrmacht), as did the supply line situation. So people used whatever they could, and worked out all kinds of creative ways to make stuff work, because the alternative was death. Death is a big motivator. And some merc units may be able to make it work, due to luck of the draw in having better techs than others do, and not having a standardized supply line so they have to think outside the box. Remember that when an army has enough standardized equipment it's much more likely to use that just as a matter of doctrine even if the troops informally want the other side's kit (and it happens all the time).

Also, Clan technology is not actually that much better than Inner Sphere. It's an evolutionary development of the Star League technology base. Remember that all their warrior mysticism aside, the Clans are the SLDF. They have battle armor, but the rest is an evolution the IS could make if it hadn't nuked the ever living **** out itself for hundreds of years and been hamstrung by Comstar in the bargain. And the IS gets the Helm memory core with a lot of SL info over twenty years before the Clans invade. While not refined SLDF-Clan tech and not evenly distributed among IS space, the potential for understanding is definitely there. Can you produce stuff of that quality yourself? Nope. But shoehorning it into your weapon platforms for short term use is a definite possibility. Most merc units are all about short term expediency, because that is their only option.

[Void Angel]

Strum Wealh, on 17 December 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

However, not all salvage is created equally, and not all Merc Techs have the ability to mate completely different tech bases.

Recall that in BattleTech, there was a +4 penalty for attempting to attach Clan equipment to an IS-built non-OmniTech 'Mech.

"For any attempt to use a Clan component to replace an Inner Sphere one (or vice versa), add an additional +4 modifier to reflect the basic incompatibility of the two technologies. Inner Sphere and Clan OmniPods are the exception to this rule. Equipment adapted for pod use can be interchanged with no penalty between Inner Sphere and Clan Omni units (as well as between different classes of Omni units, such as an OmniMech and an OmniVehicle)." (StratOps, pg. 182)

As such, even an elite-level technical team (with a 5+ Base Skill Target in BattleTech; see pg. 168 of StratOps) under the best of conditions (in a 'Mech factory, with access to all of the tools they could possibly want or need - which imparts a -4 modifier; see pg. 171 of StratOps) still has a roughly one-in-six chance of mucking-up the job; an average/regular technical team (TN 7+) in an average DropShip transport bay (+0 modifier) or an average field base (+1 penalty) trying to mix tech bases (+4 penalty) pretty-much can't do it (7+4 = 11, for a 8.4% chance of not botching the job; 7+1+4 = 12, for a 2.8% chance of not botching the job).

Just because one can salvage/scavenge parts off of a Bugatti Veyron doesn't necessarily mean that they can be used effectively (or at all) on an F1 racer... or a Humvee, or a Toyota Corolla.

Mech's aren't cars. They use a more standardized construction - myomers, actuators, etc, that can be interchanged more readily than automobile chassis. While we're quoting game terms, recall that Medium Lasers, for example, from different manufacturers are different only in flavor text; certainly, there are differences and difficulties adapting Clan supertech to Inner Sphere equipment, but it can be done, and done well. According to the game rules, adapting technology is difficult, but not impossible - and the possibility of success means you can integrate the technologies if you've got enough time to debug.

All of which is beside the point: MWO is not a LARP vehicle for reliving our childhood BattleTech fantasies; it's not an accessory for our MechWarrior campaign. If slavishly adopting changes based on this or that bit of "the lore" harms the game, then it shouldn't be done.

[Silent]

DI3T3R, on 09 December 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

But why do this with nerfing them? The Clans always fight outnumbered, why not go the extreme in this one?

10vs12? Why not 5vs12 or 5vs16 or 10vs18?
If people want to play Clanners, why not make them fight hordes upon hordes of inferior and dishonorable enemies until it's no longer funny?

Because the first aspect of Community Warfare won't be coming out for the foreseeable future and the Clan Invasion is coming in six months.

Joinable Factions like the IS and Clans won't exist when the Clan 'Mechs arrive so there won't be any system to separate players into different queues or do anything fancy like make sides asymmetrical (if they even want to do that). So that means you're stuck with dropping alongside IS 'Mechs and with IS tags until PGI decides to actually get its *** in gear.

Edited by Silent, 17 December 2013 - 08:40 PM.

[Void Angel]

Oh no, they could do it. They'd just have to segregate the MechLab so that IS gear can't be put on Clan Mechs and vice versa; create a separate set of queues complete with algorithms to ensure that you can't mix Clan and IS players on a team; reprogram the matchmaker to use a different set of equations do balance Clan v. IS, Clan v. Clan, and IS v IS teams...

Stop me when this starts to sound like too much effort for too little return. =)

[Alex Warden]

Thorn Hallis, on 09 December 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Because not many players will willingly enter a match knowing that their 'Mech and weapons are inferior by a wide margin?

nothing is set in stone yet and i am sure that PGI won´t make them "inferior on a wide margin"... they just don´t want them superior... and tbh neither do i, this is MWO after all, and not tabletop or a singleplayer game ... and i am a BT/MW fan for over 15 years... if i want a "realistic" setting, i´ll play TT or the RPG, or both

i said goodbye to a 100% true-to-lore online game during open beta... it was a sad good bye, but i got over it

plus we are talking about PGI here... just set your expectations lower, and you won´t be disappointed so much

Edited by Alex Warden, 17 December 2013 - 10:19 PM.

[Phantomime]

Spurowny, on 09 December 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Did you guys even understand the point of ghost heat and the gauss rifle change? it wasn't just to break OP builds.
It was to increase the average time it takes to kill a mech, and in that regard it was a success.

Now add lighter, higher damaging PPCs, 1 ton lasers that do 7 damage and have a range of 500m and an AC20 that fires twice as fast and weighs the same as an ac10.
Average time to kill a mech drops to lower then it has ever been.
Clan mechs DO NOT carry more armor then IS mechs, the max values are the same by tonnage.
You thought people whined about op builds and configs before? clan weapons unaltered will turn this game into just another twitch shooter. may as well play CoD so you can respawn and not wait several minutes before your next 10 seconds of fighting.
NERF the eFF outta that Clan {Scrap}!

yes, but, you play out numbered, or they introduce other globals (like ghost heat, maybe they will finally introduce drop tonnage, or, like lobby where you dont just pick a map and end up with a team or randoms all running LRMS expecting someone to spot for them...) to contain ridiculous builds (on both sides of that scale) to a % of the mechs.

they have spent so much time putting mechs into the game that the actual GAME has lagged behind so hard you have a lot of pretty explosions with no direction or substance. There are HUGE number of ways to balance Clan and IS mechs and weapons, and Max Alpha was an example of a way to fix the issue without a nurf bat to specific things (not gonna say it was a good one, but it is 'a way'..) Mech Quirks, Pilot Skills, and Modules could be a HUGE part of mech (and by extension, weapon) balancing, but instead they are taking the short sighted, long-whinded route and reinventing the wheel..

Clan lasers are awesome, so what if all weapons generated more heat, and pilot skills for IS mechs reduced heat and Clan didnt? bam, mass laser/PPC nurf, no guns were harmed.

Clan Ballistics are AMAZING, lighter, smaller, awesome RoF... what if all ammo was reduced by 25% with pilot skills that buffed that for IS but not for Clan? now you need to spend that weight and crit space on more ammo to get back to par with the IS, and thats still potentially bad because of your RoF buff..

All this said and done, until they introduce better armor (like Hardened, Reflective, and Reactive) the TTL in game is just going to go down as more weapons are released because they just get more and more powerful. (anyone else looking to drop with 2 friends toting 2x ARROW IV's each?... yaaa, gonna nurf that hard arnt ya? )

They could always just buff armor and over all hp more: add half again as much armor to all mechs, and add 25% more ammo to compensate if the game is going too fast.. or extend recycle times on all weapons by +1/2... instead, no, we need to tweek every bloody little thing, cause that is so much better, easier, and uniform..

Edited by Phantomime, 17 December 2013 - 10:33 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

<div>

Quote

Mech's aren't cars. They use a more standardized construction - myomers, actuators, etc, that can be interchanged more readily than automobile chassis. While we're quoting game terms, recall that Medium Lasers, for example, from different manufacturers are different only in flavor text; certainly, there are differences and difficulties adapting Clan supertech to Inner Sphere equipment, but it can be done, and done well. According to the game rules, adapting technology is difficult, but not impossible - and the possibility of success means you <em class="bbc">can</em> integrate the technologies if you've got enough time to debug.<br />
<br />
All of which is beside the point: MWO is not a LARP vehicle for reliving our childhood BattleTech fantasies; it's not an accessory for our MechWarrior campaign. If slavishly adopting changes based on this or that bit of &quot;the lore&quot; harms the game, then it shouldn't be done.

Yet, 'Mechs are not made of Lego blocks; they are represented as complex machines, composed of complex and interconnected systems, and is represented as (like any machine) requiring a certain degree of proper care and maintenance by competent personnel.

Saying "myomer is myomer"; is exactly the same as saying "hydraulic fluid is hydraulic fluid"; I doubt that most cars would do very well for very long with power steering fluid in their brake systems (or breaking fluid in their power steering systems), and very bad things happen to aircraft when the wrong type of fluid (or contaminated samples of the right type of fluid) are used, unless there was extensive (and very expensive) additional modification & testing involved or the situation could be maintained for a limited time (and undertaken only in the most dire of circumstances).

More to the point: switching out one system for another similar system within the same tech base (e.g. replacing an IS-built Medium Laser of one make/model with another of a different make/model) is supposed to be a fairly difficult task, while crossing the tech bases with consistent success (or even reasonable surety of success) is supposed to be near-impossible unless 1.) both the donor 'Mech and the recipient 'Mech are OmniMechs and the parts in question are pod-mounted (a situation not likely to happen for several years yet, both in-universe and in reality), or 2.) one's chief tech is basically the love-child of Angus MacGyver & Sam Carter and equipped with the tools and facilities to essentially build the whole 'Mech from scratch anyway (which, unless one happens to actually Archer Christifori or some other special-snowflake canon character, isn't likely to happen anytime soon).

As such, PGI would arguably not be unjustified - for other reasons, as well as from the standpoint of in-universe lore - in saying that common mercs and common house loyalists (that is we the players) cannon cross the tech bases in the near term and/or without substantial additional direct expense or special (and expensive) equipment/holdings, or even that that it cannot be done by common IS MechWarriors (that is, again, we the players) at all.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 17 December 2013 - 11:23 PM.

[Blackfire1]

Its not. But once they are sticking to TT. Bout ******* time.

[zeninsight]

I agree with OP... clan is clan as per lore.. they are technologically more advance than IS.. but they come in smaller number.. probably piranha can modify the game mechanic based on that arrangements... why nerf it.. it's not always bigger stick win.. and anyways in the end IS will also acquire clan tech.. nerfing clan will make the CW (if there any) bland and boring

[Joseph Mallan]

Void Angel, on 17 December 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Punctuation is your friend. If you can't separate your stream of consciousness into coherent thoughts, how can we understand you?

By expanding your consciousness. If you haven't learned how to comprehend the intent without rigid grammar rules, maybe you should forget your schooling and actually learn something.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 December 2013 - 03:40 AM.

[John Winters]

KalebFenoir, on 09 December 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

I rather like that idea. It'd be in keeping with the spirit of the novels and table-top, and it'd give Clan players a significant enough challenge to keep them interested in the game. I'd be playing IS, at least till second-line Clan mechs pop up, but that's just me. 5 v 12 sounds about right; it makes it so there's a little over 2 mechs to fight, per clanner. Winning a fight like that would 'earn them honor'. It'd be a worthy endeavor.

I'd love to see the first few months of Clan Invasion not even being controlled by players; imagine, you're in a match, 12v12, and out of nowhere, from say, the west, or the north, a Star of Clan mechs drops in, with a third team color (I'm thinking yellow), and just starts going to town on both teams. Either the Clanners would be controlled by PGI players at that point, or maybe we'd get a glimpse of NPC AI or something. Either way, the Shock & Awe would be quite worth it.

Might liven up some of those boring 'everyone brawl at theta' moments.

SEYLA!

KalebFenoir, on 09 December 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

I rather like that idea. It'd be in keeping with the spirit of the novels and table-top, and it'd give Clan players a significant enough challenge to keep them interested in the game. I'd be playing IS, at least till second-line Clan mechs pop up, but that's just me. 5 v 12 sounds about right; it makes it so there's a little over 2 mechs to fight, per clanner. Winning a fight like that would 'earn them honor'. It'd be a worthy endeavor.

I'd love to see the first few months of Clan Invasion not even being controlled by players; imagine, you're in a match, 12v12, and out of nowhere, from say, the west, or the north, a Star of Clan mechs drops in, with a third team color (I'm thinking yellow), and just starts going to town on both teams. Either the Clanners would be controlled by PGI players at that point, or maybe we'd get a glimpse of NPC AI or something. Either way, the Shock & Awe would be quite worth it.

Might liven up some of those boring 'everyone brawl at theta' moments.

SEYLA!

[DI3T3R]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 December 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

By expanding your consciousness. If you haven't learned how to comprehend the intent without rigid grammar rules, maybe you should forget your schooling and actually learn something.

"By expanding your consciousness if you haven't learned how to comprehend the intent without rigid grammar rules maybe you should forget your schooling and actually learn something "

There corrected it for you reading is easier that way and greater spiritual value it brings

Edited by DI3T3R, 18 December 2013 - 08:45 AM.

[Mao of DC]

Strum Wealh, on 17 December 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

However, not all salvage is created equally, and not all Merc Techs have the ability to mate completely different tech bases.

Recall that in BattleTech, there was a +4 penalty for attempting to attach Clan equipment to an IS-built non-OmniTech 'Mech.

"For any attempt to use a Clan component to replace an Inner Sphere one (or vice versa), add an additional +4 modifier to reflect the basic incompatibility of the two technologies. Inner Sphere and Clan OmniPods are the exception to this rule. Equipment adapted for pod use can be interchanged with no penalty between Inner Sphere and Clan Omni units (as well as between different classes of Omni units, such as an OmniMech and an OmniVehicle)." (StratOps, pg. 182)

As such, even an elite-level technical team (with a 5+ Base Skill Target in BattleTech; see pg. 168 of StratOps) under the best of conditions (in a 'Mech factory, with access to all of the tools they could possibly want or need - which imparts a -4 modifier; see pg. 171 of StratOps) still has a roughly one-in-six chance of mucking-up the job; an average/regular technical team (TN 7+) in an average DropShip transport bay (+0 modifier) or an average field base (+1 penalty) trying to mix tech bases (+4 penalty) pretty-much can't do it (7+4 = 11, for a 8.4% chance of not botching the job; 7+1+4 = 12, for a 2.8% chance of not botching the job).

Just because one can salvage/scavenge parts off of a Bugatti Veyron doesn't necessarily mean that they can be used effectively (or at all) on an F1 racer... or a Humvee, or a Toyota Corolla.

It is for this reason it takes almost 2 decades in the TT timeline before the two techs become truly interchangeable.