625 replies to this topic

[Gladewolf]

Void Angel, on 19 December 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

On topic, there is no good reason to invalidate all of the game content that's been put up so far in favor of implementing Clan hypertech as-is. Particularly since Clans wouldn't be balanced even against each other, due to the pinpoint-damage meta. Telling players who have spent considerable amounts of real money and massive amounts of time developing their Inner Sphere 'mech stable to "join the overpowered newbie-hammer if you don't like getting beaten down without a chance" is asinine and indefensible.

Running a Star vs a Company will not invalidate the current mechs in game. No Mixing however, should be allowed, at least through the invasion...

[990Dreams]

Wabbit Swaya, on 19 December 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Oh you mean, those players with deeper wallets should get all the good stuff while the rest of the pleebs grind endlessly to get one. Is that the argument you wanna bring. Because then in this game your definition of higher rank is those players who spend the most Real world money sooner rather than later.

Even when I was a noob I could scratch up the money for a CERPPC in 3-5 matches. And I mean clan tech needs a high price, not . Items should never cost (besides maybe modules).

Edited by DavidHurricane, 19 December 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[pbiggz]

DavidHurricane, on 19 December 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Even when I was a noob I could scratch up the money for a CERPPC in 3-5 matches. And I mean clan tech needs a high price, not . Items should never cost (besides maybe modules).

I think i've figured out what you're trying to say. Clan tech should be "end game" much like raiding tier gear in warcraft, or legendary items in diablo. This would work well in singleplayer or PVE specific environments, but unfortunately it doesn't work in a PVP environment. I understand the feeling that new players shouldn't be coddled, but remember this game has one of the worst learning curves, and its problematic. It DOES NOT need to become any worse by making clan tech the only competitive technology, and higher prices will only serve to increase the curve. It won't have the effect you're thinking of.

What you think will happen is most people will have IS tech with a few clan tech players, but in reality what will happen is players will grind in IS tech till they have their clan tech, then a good chunk of players will have clan tech, slowing down any new players who want to get to that "end game". Since clan tech would be so much better, IS tech will be next to worthless against it. Even still, players will slowly grind towards it if they havent already given up (and most new players give up in this kind of meta). This will further exacerbate the problem by slowly increasing the curve even more as new players gain clan tech.

Not only is this a nightmare scenario for new players and old players alike, it is also a nightmare scenario for the dreaded "Pay to win" boogieman, as the increased costs and grind to get to clan tech will make MC that much more lucrative, and drive off those who dont want to pay at all. You could say that clan tech is only available for cbills, but that is a massive tech base that is now poorly monetized, and the game needs money to continue. People sure as hell won't be buying IS tech with real money, so where will PGI be making its profit then.

[Alex Warden]

pbiggz, on 19 December 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Not only is this a nightmare scenario for new players and old players alike, it is also a nightmare scenario for the dreaded "Pay to win" boogieman, as the increased costs and grind to get to clan tech will make MC that much more lucrative, and drive off those who dont want to pay at all. You could say that clan tech is only available for cbills, but that is a massive tech base that is now poorly monetized, and the game needs money to continue. People sure as hell won't be buying IS tech with real money, so where will PGI be making its profit then.

not a problem though ... if i HAD such a big wallet (which i don´t or am not willing to spend my money on anyway ) i could simply wait for the next atlas sale, buy 3 or 4 of them and sell them... not caring about the value here, just getting the CB without any effort and buy clanstuff,,,, however, i think most people here already agreed 6 month ago that you cannot balance with CB, nor make stuff endgame content... the latter will only work for the 1st two weeks... after that you will have 2 classes ..."Elite" Players and Victims... these are typical MMORPG mechanics, and need to be avoided at all costs ...

after all i support PGI´s course here... it needs some very serious work, that´s for sure... but pvp only works on an even playfield, if you want to let playerskill decide and not items...

Edited by Alex Warden, 20 December 2013 - 02:57 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Alex Warden, on 20 December 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

after all i support PGI´s course here... it needs some very serious work, that´s for sure... but pvp only works on an even playfield, if you want to let playerskill decide and not items...

That even playfield doesn't need to be a symmetric playfield though. 5 v 12, with the 5 having more powerful mechs and equipment could just as easily be made an even playfield as 12 v 12 with nerfhammered Clans - or at least as even as current 12 v 12 with pure IS sides.

[Chrithu]

Death Storm, on 09 December 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Well Guys this what happens when the crying players start whining to the devs it gets NERFED !!, I agree with you about clan tech why should it be nerfed in some way it kinda take the point away from buying Clan tech. This whole nerf this nerf that is ruining the game !

Well guys this what happens if overpowered stuff is brought in line. People that love to play easymode and use every advantage they can get come crying to the forums because they now have to prove they have some skills other than figuring out what the strongest tech available is. This whole "I want easy winz without having to make an effort"- mentality is ruining games in general.

Edited by Jason Parker, 20 December 2013 - 04:20 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I'm glad they nerfed the clans some, this game is no RPG or dungeon crawler that revolves around gear grinding. Leave that to Blizzard and their Auction House Simulators.

MWO is a skill based shooter. And as such, one kit set of gear should not totally outclass another.

Besides, if they didn't do something to level the playing fields, why would they waste time on IS tech at all?

[DI3T3R]

JohanssenJr, on 20 December 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

I'm glad they nerfed the clans some, this game is no RPG or dungeon crawler that revolves around gear grinding. Leave that to Blizzard and their Auction House Simulators.

MWO is a skill based shooter. And as such, one kit set of gear should not totally outclass another.

Besides, if they didn't do something to level the playing fields, why would they waste time on IS tech at all?

They could have turned the Clans into some kind of Hardcore-Mode: Better equipment, but at the same time you are outnumbered AND you are restricted in terms of acceptable tactics.

[anonymous161]

Clans are pretty much people without a soul, without any kind of mercy. I'm reading a book called the way of the clan. Basically these artificial humans are raised to be blood thirsty killers who revel in victory, would not bat an eye if they were to step on a newborn baby if told to do so.

They are like the mechs themselves lethal weapons that due their masters bidding. Some have genetic anomalies that make them unique, from the basic clan warrior.

Basically they are abominations of human kind with technology years ahead of the inner sphere, but after the 15 year peace it gave the IS time to catch up while also taking clan mech tech and putting it into their own.

I wouldn't want to be a clanner though it is fun to use their slang, but I rather just pilot their awesome mechs.

[ssm]

DI3T3R, on 20 December 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

They could have turned the Clans into some kind of Hardcore-Mode: Better equipment, but at the same time you are outnumbered AND you are restricted in terms of acceptable tactics.

Balancing Clanners by outnumbering them by IS won't be hardcore mode - it'll be "more fun" mode. Besides, how would you restrict Clans in terms acceptable tactics?

Edited by ssm, 20 December 2013 - 05:02 AM.

[Grey Death Storm]

Jason Parker, on 20 December 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

Well guys this what happens if overpowered stuff is brought in line. People that love to play easymode and use every advantage they can get come crying to the forums because they now have to prove they have some skills other than figuring out what the strongest tech available is. This whole "I want easy winz without having to make an effort"- mentality is ruining games in general.

No You are wrong about my argument I am against Clan Tech being nerfed as what is point in buying it if devs nerf it !!, secondly I am fed up causal players whining to devs to nerf because they cant deal with a situation on the battle field I am a hard core Mech Warrior pilot who likes good challenge. Technically your the one crying for easy mode as you just stated your glad Clan Tech is getting Nerfed.

[ssm]

Death Storm, on 20 December 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

No You are wrong about my argument I am against Clan Tech being nerfed as what is point in buying it if devs nerf it !!, secondly I am fed up causal players whining to devs to nerf because they cant deal with a situation on the battle field I am a hard core Mech Warrior pilot who likes good challenge. Technically your the one crying for easy mode as you just stated your glad Clan Tech is getting Nerfed.

Because they'll still offer different playstyle & cool mechs. If you like good, more immersive challenge, no problem - run your mechs stock. Whether you like it or not, casual players shouldn't be ignored - if only because we'll need them for CW to properly function.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jason Parker, on 20 December 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

Well guys this what happens if overpowered stuff is brought in line. People that love to play easymode and use every advantage they can get come crying to the forums because they now have to prove they have some skills other than figuring out what the strongest tech available is. This whole "I want easy winz without having to make an effort"- mentality is ruining games in general.

But I want my ENEMY to have the advance tech... How is that asking for easy mode again? Please explain? Your argument does not address my position.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 December 2013 - 06:05 AM.

[ssm]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 December 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

But I want my ENEMY to have the advance tech... How is that asking for easy mode again? Please explain? Your argument does not address my position.

One player's challenge is other player's easy mode. And we need enough of "challenge" ones to have proper, functioning CW. As much as I admire your dedication to lore, it'll simply kill the entire premise of CW.

[Thorn Hallis]

Gaan Cathal, on 20 December 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

That even playfield doesn't need to be a symmetric playfield though. 5 v 12, with the 5 having more powerful mechs and equipment could just as easily be made an even playfield as 12 v 12 with nerfhammered Clans - or at least as even as current 12 v 12 with pure IS sides.

But how many people are willing to play with inferior tech, knowing that they can not go toe to toe with their opponent? I know Joseph Mallan would, but who else? People will naturally take the best equipment they can get.

[Gladewolf]

pbiggz, on 19 December 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

What you think will happen is most people will have IS tech with a few clan tech players, but in reality what will happen is players will grind in IS tech till they have their clan tech, then a good chunk of players will have clan tech, slowing down any new players who want to get to that "end game". Since clan tech would be so much better, IS tech will be next to worthless against it. Even still, players will slowly grind towards it if they havent already given up (and most new players give up in this kind of meta). This will further exacerbate the problem by slowly increasing the curve even more as new players gain clan tech.

This is another good reason not to nerf the clans and simply stuff them into the current 12 v 12 format. If they are available to anyone that wants one instead of ensuring that they are used only with the clans....it will spark an arms race whether they are nerfed or not......because let's face it, the only manner in which clan mechs are not entirely superior to IS mechs is total allowable armor. There is literally NO WAY to make them fit in the game as is with out not just nerfing them....but breaking them to the point that they aren't even recognizable. 5 v12 is really the only feasible option for adding them .....in that manner anyone that wants to play clan can do so......but they will do it as clan warriors, NOT Inner Sphere.

[CyclonerM]

Darth Bane001, on 20 December 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

Clans are pretty much people without a soul, without any kind of mercy. I'm reading a book called the way of the clan. Basically these artificial humans are raised to be blood thirsty killers who revel in victory, would not bat an eye if they were to step on a newborn baby if told to do so.

They are like the mechs themselves lethal weapons that due their masters bidding. Some have genetic anomalies that make them unique, from the basic clan warrior.

Basically they are abominations of human kind with technology years ahead of the inner sphere, but after the 15 year peace it gave the IS time to catch up while also taking clan mech tech and putting it into their own.

I wouldn't want to be a clanner though it is fun to use their slang, but I rather just pilot their awesome mechs.

You are reading about the Jade Falcon. Each Clan is different.. I strongly suggest you to read the Blood of Kerensky trilogy, it may give you a different point of view about the Clans. They are different (in "The Clans - Warriors of Kerensky" there is a good review of their society and civil castes) but i seriously doubt Aidan Pryde or Horse would step on a newborn baby.

As nearly every faction, they have "good" and "bad" characters so there is not any "hero" faction (aside from Victor Davion's FedSuns).

[Gladewolf]

Thorn Hallis, on 20 December 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

But how many people are willing to play with inferior tech, knowing that they can not go toe to toe with their opponent? I know Joseph Mallan would, but who else? People will naturally take the best equipment they can get.

Joseph Mallan is not the only player willing to play Inner Sphere side. So...you can put this theory away.

[Thorn Hallis]

Gladewolf, on 20 December 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Joseph Mallan is not the only player willing to play Inner Sphere side. So...you can put this theory away.

Nope, wont do.

[MoonUnitBeta]

What I don’t get is that people say “Everyone’s ganna be using clans”
and then they propose a player ratio that requires more players for the IS side… brilliant. Your logic is already flawed.

I think PGI is doing good with how they’re implementing clans. It’s quite restrictive, and I hope they loosen it up, but other than that it’s a good call and like they said it’s an obvious issue. Because balancing a player ratio to clans is probably the LEAST effective and LEAST imaginative way possible. I appreciate simplicity, but I also appreciate it when it’s effective, because that gives purpose to the simplicity. Simplicity in this case is not good. It won’t even be fun. Think about it you can currently get 1-2 shot from ac/40’s, and other builds. I don’t care what ratio you put Clan to IS, it’s just a bad idea.

Alpha strikes are an issue already, even without the clans. What makes you think importing the clans directly into MWO is going to help? Nothing. It’s going to make the problem worse. If you think the complaints about PPC+Gauss were bad, dang well don’t be around with Clans here. You hate ghost heat? Don’t endorse this frankenplayer ratio, because that’s all you really have to balancing Clan weapons if you don’t want PGI to fudge with numbers.

I’m thankful PGI is not doing it your way. Because it’s the simple(in this case it’s bad), ineffective, poorly thought out “fix”. It’s liken to sticking some gum in a crack of a leaking dam. Doesn’t fix anything and just stops a dribble. Then the masses push on the dam and test the durability of your gum patch, finding new ways to fight, better ways to build their mechs, getting those cheese mechs up and running as fast as possible because if the ratio is too low and people lose then cheese is the only way to go, and then you can watch everything fall apart after that… but then you'll just change how many clans are against IS, right? And when that fails you turn to ELO, right? And then you see that ELO isn't working either because the clan pool is flooded with all these ratings and IS only handful, right? So then you turn to Ghost heat frantically trying to find a way to balance this thing out, right? and when that still won't work... well... GG, right?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight…………

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 20 December 2013 - 08:04 AM.