625 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

daneiel varna, on 24 February 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

Ha ,do you have any idea how eager are the clan players to leave the Ineer Sphere .

True. I love the Inner Sphere, but it is not my home anymore.

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Huge amount of the clan players are more excited to get their hands on Nova , Stormcrow , Warhawk and Summoner then the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf , I will not metioned that for example Ghost Bears will prefer most of the time Executioner .

I want my Timberwolf more than anything else, but i am also excited for Kit Fox, Nova, Stormcrow and Summoner! I have never been a fan of Assault 'Mechs.

[Goosfraba]

CyclonerM, on 24 February 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

I know. And if they fight disonhorably they will get quite less honor if they win and much less if they lose You know, Dezgra penalty!

I don't think most of them know what dezgra means. Quiaff?

[Trifler]

I believe the original post's idea would work. I myself would continue to use IS mechs with such a system, in some form.

Currently we start the game in Lances (groups of four), with each Lance at a different spot on the map. Clanners use groups of three in lore, and could likewise in MWO. Maybe spread the clan groups out more too. In addition to having superior numbers (12 vs. 9 in this example), the matchmaker would also give the IS superior overall tonnage, so however much those 12 mechs weigh put together would be considerably more than the amount the 9 mechs put together weigh. Another idea is to give Clan groups inferior positioning on the map at game start, and/or let the IS players roam around for 30 seconds and then have the Clan groups land at their starting positions in dropships.

I don't know if there actually needs to be a Clan faction, or multiple clans (Jade Falcon, etc.). The system would work automatically if the player selects a Clan mech. However, there certainly could continue to be IS vs. IS battles, Clan vs. Clan, and the new mode, IS vs. Clan.

It seems very doable to me and the variety would be really fun. If they want to make Clan tech equal to IS tech then I'd much rather they simply didn't add Clan tech at all.

[CyclonerM]

Goosfraba, on 24 February 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

I don't think most of them know what dezgra means. Quiaff?

Aff, but they will learn.. Anyway, that " - 2000 Honor" would speak for itself

Trifler, on 24 February 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

I believe the original post's idea would work. I myself would continue to use IS mechs with such a system, in some form.

Currently we start the game in Lances (groups of four), with each Lance at a different spot on the map. Clanners use groups of three in lore, and could likewise in MWO.

Actually the Clans' armies are organized in Stars of 5 'Mechs ...

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I don't know if there actually needs to be a Clan faction, or multiple clans (Jade Falcon, etc.). The system would work automatically if the player selects a Clan mech. However, there certainly could continue to be IS vs. IS battles, Clan vs. Clan, and the new mode, IS vs. Clan.

It seems very doable to me and the variety would be really fun. If they want to make Clan tech equal to IS tech then I'd much rather they simply didn't add Clan tech at all.

We long waited since MW2 a game in which we could join our favourite Clan,so we want it!

[Odanan]

Clans work with groups of 5 (Stars).

But yes, 10 Clan mechs vs. 16 IS mechs would be a fair fight.

[chaas]

Clan tech is a touchy subject. Purists want their badass 'Mechs, and I can't begrudge them for that. Unfortunately adapting Clan tech as-is in the BTU would create a problem: New players can't afford Clan tech, and IS guys like myself don't want it. In an effort to maintain the game's balance, PGI has little choice but to put Clan tech on an even keel with IS tech. Since many of us won't follow the Clan's honored tradition of Zellbrigen, intentionally or otherwise, offering a set of 'Mechs with far greater tech than its IS counterparts leads to just one conclusion: players will only want to play with Clan tech. I site every after-market MW4:Mercenaries 'Mech build in the history of time as evidence. Other than die-hard purist builds*, those builds contain Clan tech.

So the problem would be, simply put, the IS player base will disappear, quickly at first and then slowly dwindle down to nothing over time, if Clan tech is obviously superior. The solution that PGI seems to be going for is to make Clan tech better on some fronts, while allowing IS tech its own technological advantages. Better in one area, worse in another.

There are some who scream that the lore is sacred and should never be altered. I've gotta wonder why that's being said. I'm sure there are folks among us who simply want their favorite big stompy robot (I'm still waiting on mine, and it's not a Clan 'Mech), and there are a few who simply want an advantage over others for whatever reason. I don't pretend to know who falls into what category, or why. But it's kind of time to accept that this is not the Battletech table top game.

Regardless of what they end up doing, I'm sure there will be a part of the community that's unhappy about it.

*I had to laugh as I was typing that. Hope y'all did too.

[GalaxyBluestar]

chaas, on 24 February 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

Clan tech is a touchy subject. Purists want their badass 'Mechs, and I can't begrudge them for that. Unfortunately adapting Clan tech as-is in the BTU would create a problem: New players can't afford Clan tech, and IS guys like myself don't want it.

it's not so much the nerfs that bother me.



what are clans getting other than the mechs {nerfed} and the tech that comes with them {nerfed}

do we get our deployment numbers? star5

do we get a currency?

do we get specific downsides and upside perks for being a "clanner" rather than a spheroid?

we haven't even seen banner/avatar selections and if the forums are anything to go by CNC SV DS won't be joining the other four.

and more often than not we'll be seing the IS houses fielding our mechs so i'm not seeing clans coming, i'm seeing lore breaking addons at an uber premium coming. unless that's addressed i'm not supporting the "operation revial" stuff. because the game design has so little to do with what it means to be apart of operation revival. it almost feels like false advertising. they should've called it the clan salvage deal.

CyclonerM, on 24 February 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

zelbriggen ideas and...

I know. And if they fight disonhorably they will get quite less honor if they win and much less if they lose You know, Dezgra penalty!

it's a pity pgi have no belief in implementing lore, they threw zellbriggen under a bus. then again the zellbriggen stuff doesn't last a great deal of time anyways after the invasion. but yeah you'd just get bonus earnings for shooting at nothing else but the aquired target after targetting. once the target is destroyed you can move on to the next without forfeit. we have uav tag spotting bonuses, why not attacked but one targetted enemy bonus?

really i'd want to take it further and have a third currency, honour which would sit between the and the on your clan mechs store. in game if you're a clan faction you'd earn honour instead of c-bills. that way we won't be saving 3x c-bills for clan gear which is essentially 3x the grind and we know for damn sure clan mechs won't be worth that much. so pgi if you're gonna use the c-bill prices for clan mechs you want us to buy the equivelent of 7-9 mechs just to master 1 clan mech? no there's gotta be a better way than putting up a huge pay 2 access wall than that. {yeah there's people worried about the initial period of waiting for the c-bill stuff while package owners get "exclusive" access to the tech. guess they haven't even thought a bout a free player using a clan mech, their heads would explode}

taijutsufl, on 24 February 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Basically yes, a sacrafice in order to preserve clan mechs and tech. Is it too much to ask? maybe it is.

I think there is a genuine concern that if clan mechs/tech are far superior to IS tech, no one will want to take the IS side. Another solution is to implement bots to play the IS side, which may be worth considering, but bots aren't as good as skilled people.

Just trying to come up with some ideas as I really don't like the 'make them equal' solution.

Let's hear more ideas for solutions as I believe the problem and discontent have been pretty fully expressed by now.

you don't have to force a pilot mech penalty on people if they want to pilot their fav, rather give players more reason to use unpopular stuff. with achievements coming out i'm guessing for every clan 1 there should be 5 innersphere ones and so far only IS faction loyalty points gets you towards wolf dragoons. i'm in the process of considering the breakdown for such things as well as distinguishing the experience for the merc {and what constitutes as one} the faction player and the lone wolf {entry level}

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 24 February 2014 - 06:03 PM.

[wanderer]

Speaking of Clan currency, it'd be amusing to see Clantech only available in the appropriate currency- Kerensky's. (Yes, the Clans have their own currency, kids.)

Such money would only be given for Clan pilots completing objectives for the Clans, of course...unless you wanted to convert it over with/use MC...

[Sephlock]

CyclonerM, on 23 December 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

I also like Joanna because she is IMHO written to be hated by the reader but eventually she comes to like Aidan, Horse and Diana.

I like her for her creative use of jump jets (better than that sucker Aidan's )

[CyclonerM]

wanderer, on 25 February 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

Speaking of Clan currency, it'd be amusing to see Clantech only available in the appropriate currency- Kerensky's. (Yes, the Clans have their own currency, kids.)

Such money would only be given for Clan pilots completing objectives for the Clans, of course...unless you wanted to convert it over with/use MC...

GalaxyBluestar, on 24 February 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

really i'd want to take it further and have a third currency, honour which would sit between the and the on your clan mechs store. in game if you're a clan faction you'd earn honour instead of c-bills. that way we won't be saving 3x c-bills for clan gear which is essentially 3x the grind and we know for damn sure clan mechs won't be worth that much. so pgi if you're gonna use the c-bill prices for clan mechs you want us to buy the equivelent of 7-9 mechs just to master 1 clan mech? no there's gotta be a better way than putting up a huge pay 2 access wall than that. {yeah there's people worried about the initial period of waiting for the c-bill stuff while package owners get "exclusive" access to the tech. guess they haven't even thought a bout a free player using a clan mech, their heads would explode}

Actually the question is.. Why should a Clan warrior buy his Timberwolf with 24 millions c-bills? All the things in italic are wrong. A Clan warrior does not buy his 'Mech, while i understand an Inner Sphere merc does. 24 Millions? Seriously? After we qualify as warriors we should have one assigned. Nothing is further from buying just ONE with that ridicolous amount of money. After all, we produce them, so even if we will use C-Bills we should be able to buy them at a reduced price. I understand 24M may be the mere cost of the components and does not consider how rare it is for Spheroids.. But still. Oh, and Clansmen do not use C-Bills!

@Wanderer: actually, Clan warriors do not use Kerenskys. It is the currency used by the merchant caste. Clan warriors (and the other Clansmen) use work credits to buy what they need.
Here from the source to bust this myth

Sephlock, on 25 February 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

I like her for her creative use of jump jets (better than that sucker Aidan's )

Praise Aidan Pryde!

Oh well after all both Joanna and the Widowmaker were surprisingly good for their age. And Aidan died just when he had started liking the character

P.S. Horse is actually the bravest Jade Falcon. Those arrogant trashborns should have learned to respect their freeborns!

Edited by CyclonerM, 25 February 2014 - 05:15 AM.

[wanderer]

Understood that Clan warriors generally use work credits, but to make it a bit smoother, using the Kerensky to acquire items gives you a viable "cash" for Clanners that isn't a C-bill. Likewise, since a Kerensky is roughly equal to 5 C-bills, you can have an exchange system set up.

C-bills + MC = Kerensky, Kerensky + MC= C-bills. Again, it goes with my view that Clanstuff shouldn't be directly intergrated into a fundamentally incompatible IS/C-bill system.

[CyclonerM]

wanderer, on 25 February 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

C-bills + MC = Kerensky, Kerensky + MC= C-bills. Again, it goes with my view that Clanstuff shouldn't be directly intergrated into a fundamentally incompatible IS/C-bill system.

Why? I highly doubt a Clan warrior would just walk on Solaris VII or New Avalon going shopping.. And a Spheroid would not use Kerenskys or another Clan currency..

I would use a "Honor" currency. It fits better with warriors. We are not merchants

By the way, using Kerenskies has its advantages. It is better than c-bills and you could use the rough conversion ratio for the Spheroids wanting to buy Clan tech in the black market (i pray Kerensky it will never happen..) or something like that. But after all, you could just pay those 24M c-bills and get your Timberwolf.. Without having to convert anything..

Oh, and the perfect excuse: you could say you request a new 'Mech or weapon and a merchant buys and ships it to you.

[Thorn Hallis]

Trifler, on 24 February 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Clanners use groups of three in lore

Uhm...only if in Clan Soviet Russia three is five.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 25 February 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Thorn Hallis, on 25 February 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

Uhm...only if in Clan Soviet Russia three is five.

In Soviet Russia Stars actually Clan you.

[pbiggz]

Implementing clan currency would be interesting. Immersion was always a strong point with other Mechwarrior titles, and with UI 2.0 already implemented, im already seeing certain immersive elements becoming more prevalent. As usual, I have high hopes that will almost certainly be dashed. Im sure they will come up with some kind of system, but at this point, it's anyone's guess.

[CyclonerM]

pbiggz, on 26 February 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Implementing clan currency would be interesting. Immersion was always a strong point with other Mechwarrior titles, and with UI 2.0 already implemented, im already seeing certain immersive elements becoming more prevalent. As usual, I have high hopes that will almost certainly be dashed. Im sure they will come up with some kind of system, but at this point, it's anyone's guess.

Will you forgive me if i am not very optimistic about immersion?

[wanderer]

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Will you forgive me if i am not very optimistic about immersion?

At this point, it appears to be immersion in a vat of yellow, squishy foam- the Clans, hit with the Nerf Vat!

[CyclonerM]

wanderer, on 27 February 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

At this point, it appears to be immersion in a vat of yellow, squishy foam- the Clans, hit with the Nerf Vat!

Clans? I know no Clans.. I only heard of something called "Inner Sphere 2.0"

@Galaxy Bluestar: actually, i think your "IS 2.0" definition applies better to the actual IS BattleMechs we already have. In the lore totally customize a BattleMech was not so quick, easy and no-money-consuming

[BlackDeathLegion]

KalebFenoir, on 09 December 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

I rather like that idea. It'd be in keeping with the spirit of the novels and table-top, and it'd give Clan players a significant enough challenge to keep them interested in the game. I'd be playing IS, at least till second-line Clan mechs pop up, but that's just me. 5 v 12 sounds about right; it makes it so there's a little over 2 mechs to fight, per clanner. Winning a fight like that would 'earn them honor'. It'd be a worthy endeavor.

I'd love to see the first few months of Clan Invasion not even being controlled by players; imagine, you're in a match, 12v12, and out of nowhere, from say, the west, or the north, a Star of Clan mechs drops in, with a third team color (I'm thinking yellow), and just starts going to town on both teams. Either the Clanners would be controlled by PGI players at that point, or maybe we'd get a glimpse of NPC AI or something. Either way, the Shock & Awe would be quite worth it.

Might liven up some of those boring 'everyone brawl at theta' moments.

I really love this idea! /signed

[Fetladral]

DI3T3R, on 09 December 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

On the one side, we have the IS-Mechs we know and love/hate/both.

Then, one day Clan-Mechs get introduced. They are faster, more flexible, more durable, have more firepower. Real killers. Everybody will want to have one, so their use has to be restricted or discouraged in some way.

But why do this with nerfing them? The Clans always fight outnumbered, why not go the extreme in this one?

10vs12? Why not 5vs12 or 5vs16 or 10vs18?
If people want to play Clanners, why not make them fight hordes upon hordes of inferior and dishonorable enemies until it's no longer funny?

A Cluster against a Regimental Combat Team? Outnumbered in Mechs 1:2 and outnumbered overall 1:18?
Why not?

also if everyone gets (and is in) a clan mech so that there won't be any IS mechs. that makes it hard to do IS vs clan.