625 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

I agree with this. If you have played as these units before, you should be considered, but being Clan, You should have to earn it thought combat. Clan was are not those of legacy. Command is TAKEN from the predecessor. [I read the unit profiles on Wiki... Ummm] So if you want the 4th Wolf Guard (A prestigious unit IIRC) and the 328th Assault Cluster has even a deeper history. To be a part of those units should take a huge undertaking as they would only be populated by the best warriors the Wolves have! Earning membership would indeed need to be a challenge CyclonerM. I can't see anyone getting in just because they form a unofficial unit 12 years ago. Sorry but that is how I feel. You may as well be asking to be part of the Wolf Clan Golden Keshik.

Ok, if you agree we should have a chance, then what should be the challenge?

[Joseph Mallan]

A Clan Wolf Tournament. First for Unit placement then for rank would be my suggestion. It is after all the Clan way.

This would only be needed IF there were more than...45 MechWarriors for the 328th and the 4th Wolf Guards? To bad you couldn't have the Omni fighters and Elementals as well! That would be wicked!!!

[DI3T3R]

CyclonerM, on 03 January 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Ok, if you agree we should have a chance, then what should be the challenge?

CW will see the introduction of a character-level.

Or we go directly by "challenges", depending on how many enemies you were able to kill during your best match.

And I don't think that private groups should be able to call dibs on units like the 4th Wolf Guard.


EDIT:
@Joseph Mallan:
Well, I once suggested adding more troop-types. About 50% of those polled were for it, about 50% were against it.

Edited by DI3T3R, 03 January 2014 - 09:14 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Its not fighting the Clans without the added fear of Toads!

[CMetz]

I still stand by my opinion here... did everyone actually read the post about clan tech? It seems the Clans aren't really being nerfed at all... the weapons will just require more skill to get maximum damage. If anything, this aligns more with canon than any other idea that I can imagine. Omnimechs will have fixed engines and armor? Still canon. This is honestly the best possible implementation of Clan equipment according to CANON. Isn't that what is important? the penultimate goal here should be achieving balance while allowing the technology to adhere as closely as possible to canon

[Joseph Mallan]

CMetz the only place I disagree is Omnis are being hamstrung by having set pods as I have read the Posts. I can take an Alpha Pod off and replace it with a Beta Pod! That isn't anywhere near as flexible as a 'Mech!

[CyclonerM]

Joseph: the problem is how many time and resources would take to PGI to organize a tournament for every canon unit?

I would say, again: reserve for such long-established units their Clusters and make them joinable by invite. Unit leaders could only invite a player after some conditions are satisfied, the easiest to implement of which is a set amount of loyalty points.


How could PGI decide in other ways which players are worthy of assignment to such units? Post-counting? Partecipation? RP?

I am sorry for this but LPs are the easiest way to make players earn their place in an unit. Clans have 4-8 Galaxies of units for players to join and each House has countless regiments and battalions. Even if they will make available only the most famous units there will be enough free spots for everyone.

By the way.. Now that i think about it.. Each of us who hold the rank of MechWarrior has already earned the right to wear the Clan Wolf tag. How could one from outside our unit decide who is worthy of a Cluster in Alpha Galaxy instead of being assigned to a garrison cluster in Epsilon Galaxy?


Moreover, quite a few of us have accomplished something in this game, especially the veterans playing since closed beta or so. Stravag, even i could show you some deeds in my codex (though i am only a freeborn warrior ) :
from the initial Trial of Position in which i rightfully earned my position defeating a Warrior in single honorable combat, to many 12vs12 victorius drops (less than other warriors due to timezone), almost costant partecipation in 4men drops, help in recruitment and establing friendly relations with other Clan units (especially Ghost Bears, Jade Falcon Gyrfalcon Galaxy and the Nova Cats of the 58th Strike Cluster), help in trying to keep alive the Strana Mechty Anook website, a video viewed promoting our Clan unit in the intro (viewed by around 160 people excluding my own views), liked everywhere (MWO forums, NGNG forums, CW forums) and posted in our official Clan Wolf facebook page, a fight in a ToP against a cadet (eventually he was defeated by another warrior who joined the fight having been hit and "activated"), a victory over Marack Drock, Khan of "Clan" Blood Scorpion in single honorable combat which prompted him to change his Clan's lore, a long partecipation in Clan matters in these and other forums, a victory against a veteran coming back from a break for RL matters (who later became our Khan) in single honorable combat (we fought three times and three times we have been interrupted; after the third interruction he conceded me the victory, having gained the edge on him).

Yes, i have also known many defeats, but who are you to say these "deeds" are not enough to make me worth of my place in the 4th Wolf Guards Delta Binary (european binary) or a spot in a Trial of Bloodright?

My apologies for my long post.

P.S. Joesph why you do not play MW:LL? We could have tons of fun!

Edited by CyclonerM, 03 January 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 03 January 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Joseph: the problem is how many time and resources would take to PGI to organize a tournament for every canon unit?

They should get started now then! There are plenty of Clanners who want to be in Canon Units (like yourself), And we have MONTHS till CW is launched. SO get their but in gear and start filling those canon Units so we can actually feel like we are a part of this Universe instead of a spectator!

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I would say, again: reserve for such long-established units their Clusters and make them joinable by invite. Unit leaders could only invite a player after some conditions are satisfied, the easiest to implement of which is a set amount of loyalty points.

Well, what about the TT players who have been playing those units well before the MW video games? I have 30 years of blood sweat and tears invested in the Universe. I was a Demo Rep (ie FanPro Commando), I helped play test rules and ran Official events for this universe. Events that shaped the Canon. Compared to what I have done, playing in an Unofficial On Line league for a few years doesn't measure up CycloneM.

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How could PGI decide in other ways which players are worthy of assignment to such units? Post-counting? Partecipation? RP?

If we went by Post Count I'd rule the universe... We don't want to go there Participation could count, Elo would also be a measure, After all do you want low Elo scrubs in a Clan Wolf Elite Cluster Like the 4th or the 328th? Those unites have some serious history (328th all the way back to the Star League!). If I was a Wolf player I would want onlt the best Clan Wolf has to offer in those units. Are you and yours The Best? Its a tough question to answer Honestly.

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I am sorry for this but LPs are the easiest way to make players earn their place in an unit. Clans have 4-8 Galaxies of units for players to join and each House has countless regiments and battalions. Even if they will make available only the most famous units there will be enough free spots for everyone.

Loyalty Points are a good means to allow a cjhance to enter a prestigeous Clan Unit... But earning a billet, that should be earned by combat, not time in service.

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By the way.. Now that i think about it.. Each of us who hold the rank of MechWarrior has already earned the right to wear the Clan Wolf tag. How could one from outside our unit decide who is worthy of a Cluster in Alpha Galaxy instead of being assigned to a garrison cluster in Epsilon Galaxy?

I have a Clan Character, I petitioned and was aknowlegde by some of the "Wolves" already. I haven't joined up, but I can when I decide it the time to. What is my due as a clanner? I ran an entire Warden Clan and a Crusader Clan. Our table concurred and claimed Terra! Where does someone like me belong in Clan Wolf?

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Moreover, quite a few of us have accomplished something in this game, especially the veterans playing since closed beta or so. Stravag, even i could show you some deeds in my codex (though i am only a freeborn warrior ) :
from the initial Trial of Position in which i rightfully earned my position defeating a Warrior in single honorable combat, to many 12vs12 victorius drops (less than other warriors due to timezone), almost costant partecipation in 4men drops, help in recruitment and establing friendly relations with other Clan units (especially Ghost Bears, Jade Falcon Gyrfalcon Galaxy and the Nova Cats of the 58th Strike Cluster), help in trying to keep alive the Strana Mechty Anook website, a video viewed promoting our Clan unit in the intro (viewed by around 160 people excluding my own views), liked everywhere (MWO forums, NGNG forums, CW forums) and posted in our official Clan Wolf facebook page, a fight in a ToP against a cadet (eventually he was defeated by another warrior who joined the fight having been hit and "activated"), a victory over Marack Drock, Khan of "Clan" Blood Scorpion in single honorable combat which prompted him to change his Clan's lore, a long partecipation in Clan matters in these and other forums, a victory against a veteran coming back from a break for RL matters (who later became our Khan) in single honorable combat (we fought three times and three times we have been interrupted; after the third interruction he conceded me the victory, having gained the edge on him).

THESE Accomplishments should count only IF they happened in this game. These accomplishments are in this game and as such belong in your Codex. PGI should consider things like this long before considering something done 10 years ago.

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Yes, i have also known many defeats, but who are you to say these "deeds" are not enough to make me worth of my place in the 4th Wolf Guards Delta Binary (european binary) or a spot in a Trial of Bloodright?

You just gave the reason why you could be pasted over for such an illustrious billet in Clan Wolf's Premere Galaxy.

Also

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3052

• Trinary Command (includes 2 Stars of Naga artillery OmniMechs) - Star Colonel Jera Carns
  
• Supernova First (2 Novas) - Star Captain Skinner Ward
  
• Supernova Second (2 Novas) - Star Captain Juanilla Sradac
  
• Trinary Assault (2 Stars of OmniMechs, 1 Star of OmniFighters) - Star Captain Bryston Radick
  
• Trinary Rogue (2 Stars of OmniMechs, 1 Star of OmniFighters) - Star Captain Illior
  
• Support:
  
  • 2 Star Lord JumpShips
    
  • 1 Union Command DropShips
    
  • 2 Union DropShips
    
  • 5 Leopard DropShips
    
  • 1 Titan DropShip

There is no Delta Binary in the 4th Wolf Guards at this time. Now if you are part of the OFFICIAL 4th Guard in MW:O I could see placement in Binary 1st or 2nd. MW:O will have to juggle the TO&E as OmniFighters and Elementals are not going to be a part of MW:O.

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My apologies for my long post.

Non needed. You are passionate about this.

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P.S. Joesph why you do not play MW:LL? We could have tons of fun!

I tried... LL is not for me.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 January 2014 - 07:23 AM.

[arghmace]

CMetz, on 03 January 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

This is honestly the best possible implementation of Clan equipment according to CANON. Isn't that what is important?

No, since TT canon is plain stupid for a MW game. Sticking to it will ruin this game for sure.

[Joseph Mallan]

arghmace, on 04 January 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

No, since TT canon is plain stupid for a MW game. Sticking to it will ruin this game for sure.

As it ruined All the other MechWarrior titles???

many of those titles were very close to TT and they won awards! MW:O has broken from TT quite a bit (some for the better) and it has only won scorn and insults. Pessimism at best.

[arghmace]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 January 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

As it ruined All the other MechWarrior titles???

Tell me, which previous MW game had a functional IS vs Clan multiplayer.

[Joseph Mallan]

arghmace, on 04 January 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Tell me, which previous MW game had a functional IS vs Clan multiplayer.

None. What makes you think a near to TT Mechanic would ruin This game?

[arghmace]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 January 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

None. What makes you think a near to TT Mechanic would ruin This game?

For the asymmetrical warfare to work we would have to have much more IS players than Clan players. But I'm quite sure at least 90% of player base will go after the OP clan mechs. How exactly is the MM and CW supposed to work in this case?

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 January 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

They should get started now then! There are plenty of Clanners who want to be in Canon Units (like yourself), And we have MONTHS till CW is launched. SO get their but in gear and start filling those canon Units so we can actually feel like we are a part of this Universe instead of a spectator!

Unfortunately i think if they even have someone who could organize this kind of events he may have something else to do.. But i am sure someone like you could well be trusted. Quite unfeasable, however.

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Well, what about the TT players who have been playing those units well before the MW video games? I have 30 years of blood sweat and tears invested in the Universe. I was a Demo Rep (ie FanPro Commando), I helped play test rules and ran Official events for this universe. Events that shaped the Canon. Compared to what I have done, playing in an Unofficial On Line league for a few years doesn't measure up CycloneM.

You know what? You said deeds in other games and TT should not count in MWO. And i actually do not agree on this. More on this point later.

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If we went by Post Count I'd rule the universe... We don't want to go there Participation could count, Elo would also be a measure, After all do you want low Elo scrubs in a Clan Wolf Elite Cluster Like the 4th or the 328th? Those unites have some serious history (328th all the way back to the Star League!). If I was a Wolf player I would want onlt the best Clan Wolf has to offer in those units. Are you and yours The Best? Its a tough question to answer Honestly.

I was kind of joking when saying post count.. I would be at least a Star Commander, quiaff? As you say, it is tough to answer such a question. If i had to choose a way to determine who should earn a position in a Clan unit (among those i proposed, without a long and complex tournament) i would choose either partecipation and/or RP with a minimum amount of LPs. Again, how can you determine who "is a Clanner" enough? For some it would be easy (I honestly think you, i, Piggbz, Pariah Devalis and a few others should get their chance for sure) but how can you determine who is just trying to join a Clan for the tech?

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Loyalty Points are a good means to allow a cjhance to enter a prestigeous Clan Unit... But earning a billet, that should be earned by combat, not time in service.

I know and agree. I already said, however, it may not be so easy for PGI to organize a tournament; Loyalty Points should be a required condition anyway.

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I have a Clan Character, I petitioned and was aknowlegde by some of the "Wolves" already. I haven't joined up, but I can when I decide it the time to. What is my due as a clanner? I ran an entire Warden Clan and a Crusader Clan. Our table concurred and claimed Terra! Where does someone like me belong in Clan Wolf?

THESE Accomplishments should count only IF they happened in this game. These accomplishments are in this game and as such belong in your Codex. PGI should consider things like this long before considering something done 10 years ago.

Maybe considering before, yes. But if i was at PGI.. I would give you an award and a honorary position for your passion and dedication to this universe and i would make an example of you to everyone! I would say "Ok, in this game you won X battles, killed Y enemies, fared well in Z competitive leagues" but in my opinion who played AND role-played with such a passion should have their deeds accounted in this game. I mean, the character is the same, quiaff?

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You just gave the reason why you could be pasted over for such an illustrious billet in Clan Wolf's Premere Galaxy.

This is still a game. I do not have decades of MechWarrior experience nor i have had a military training (many folks in my Clan have). You cannot really compare the sheer number of victories with those of a lore character. You may well be a better player than me (who knows? I shall challenge you to a honor duel someday!) but in MWO can you say you have never been defeated? Your team never lost? Maybe you lost because of noobs in your teams while you instead were playing well and using your head.
I think this may not be an useful meter.

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There is no Delta Binary in the 4th Wolf Guards at this time. Now if you are part of the OFFICIAL 4th Guard in MW:O I could see placement in Binary 1st or 2nd. MW:O will have to juggle the TO&E as OmniFighters and Elementals are not going to be a part of MW:O.

Thank you for rising this point because you indeed made me reflect a bit. Now, they could choose two ways: take only the 'Mech binaries/trinaries in each Cluster or, how we mostly did, consider all the trinaries 'Mech trinaries. Yes, we had to adapt a bit the Cluster structure, it would be sad to have only half of a Cluster and to take another one would take a Cluster another unit may want to claim.

In MW:LL, with enough Elemental and pilot dedicated players we could have filled the whole Cluster structure.. So we had to adapt it a bit, in the end.

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Non needed. You are passionate about this.

Thank you, from you it is high praise indeed

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I tried... LL is not for me.

Really? Why? It is great. Great variety of vehicles and awesome maps. You should really see the newest one, New Roland. It is a city near the sea.. There are many buildings and skyscrapers, a dropship and a destroyer. It is similar to Crimson Strait but feels way more like a true urban map! I want it in MWO!

arghmace, on 04 January 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

For the asymmetrical warfare to work we would have to have much more IS players than Clan players. But I'm quite sure at least 90% of player base will go after the OP clan mechs. How exactly is the MM and CW supposed to work in this case?

How can you say Clan 'Mech will be OP? With all the limitations they have put on them? They are less flexible than BattleMechs and not even true Omnies!

[Alpha087]

DI3T3R, on 09 December 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

If people want to play Clanners, why not make them fight hordes upon hordes of inferior and dishonorable enemies until it's no longer funny?

It would stop being funny pretty much on day 1. Besides the point, I haven't seen any restriction with the Clan pre-order that states any player's factional alignment will even be affected by the Clan mechs. So what happens when someone who pre-ordered the full Clan package decides they'd rather stick with one of the houses? Are they suddenly no longer able to queue so long as they have a Clan 'mech in their dropship? That would be restricting it though.. They are far too into it now to really do anything like that.

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 04 January 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

Unfortunately i think if they even have someone who could organize this kind of events he may have something else to do.. But i am sure someone like you could well be trusted. Quite unfeasable, however

Well, one of teh Lawmen found a webpage that has a tournie system set up. We used it to have a 24 man battle. It was pretty CLan Like. We dropped 12 on 12. We knew who our opponent was and we fought each other ONLY. It was very Clan like... and quite fun.

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You know what? You said deeds in other games and TT should not count in MWO. And i actually do not agree on this. More on this point later.

We will have to agree to disagree, I think.

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I was kind of joking when saying post count.. I would be at least a Star Commander, quiaff? As you say, it is tough to answer such a question. If i had to choose a way to determine who should earn a position in a Clan unit (among those i proposed, without a long and complex tournament) i would choose either partecipation and/or RP with a minimum amount of LPs. Again, how can you determine who "is a Clanner" enough? For some it would be easy (I honestly think you, i, Piggbz, Pariah Devalis and a few others should get their chance for sure) but how can you determine who is just trying to join a Clan for the tech?

I figured you were joking about post count, but I had to say what I did. I have to agree with some of the names you listed, they have done/said much to try to guide the Clans in a good direction. As to telling what someone's intentions are. I'd say folks who are trying to keep the Clans OP as I do would be a good indicator. True I want my enemy to have poison dripping fangs and all, but not everyone is coming from my perspective.

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I know and agree. I already said, however, it may not be so easy for PGI to organize a tournament; Loyalty Points should be a required condition anyway.

we can lay this one to bed then.

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Maybe considering before, yes. But if i was at PGI.. I would give you an award and a honorary position for your passion and dedication to this universe and i would make an example of you to everyone! I would say "Ok, in this game you won X battles, killed Y enemies, fared well in Z competitive leagues" but in my opinion who played AND role-played with such a passion should have their deeds accounted in this game. I mean, the character is the same, quiaff?

This would kinda defeat the purpose for my being Joe. Joseph Mallan is my oldest Character (pre dating BattleTech), He was my first TT character (a Battlemaser pilot 30 years ago) though, and I carried him through to be a member of the BattleCorps Legion (FanFic unit that became Canon) I want to attempt to play out the history I wrote for Joe, from being a member of the 10th Lyran, fighting beside Victor Steiner-Davion against teh Clans, and being in eyeball range when ilKhan Osis lost his head! Yes I would love to be handed a billet in the 10th LG. But that does not mean I deserve it. I will gladly earn it through sweat and hard work. That is all part of playing a game like this to me.

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This is still a game. I do not have decades of MechWarrior experience nor i have had a military training (many folks in my Clan have). You cannot really compare the sheer number of victories with those of a lore character. You may well be a better player than me (who knows? I shall challenge you to a honor duel someday!) but in MWO can you say you have never been defeated? Your team never lost? Maybe you lost because of noobs in your teams while you instead were playing well and using your head.I think this may not be an useful meter.

Actually if I was to be a Clanner on MY merits, I would be in a 2nd line Galaxy... probably a Solahma Unit taking my age into account I have no right to be in a unit like the 4th on my merits. Possibly a place in the 13th Wolf Guards... If I could prove my worth.

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Thank you for rising this point because you indeed made me reflect a bit. Now, they could choose two ways: take only the 'Mech binaries/trinaries in each Cluster or, how we mostly did, consider all the trinaries 'Mech trinaries. Yes, we had to adapt a bit the Cluster structure, it would be sad to have only half of a Cluster and to take another one would take a Cluster another unit may want to claim.

This is a conversation that would require time and lots of booze comsidering the headaches it be likely to cause. Imagint the constenation raised by Hell's Horses. Their Touman is comprised of so many different Nova configurations they would loose 1/2 of their TO&E!!! If not more!

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Thank you, from you it is high praise indeed

You are welcome, it was meant to be priase.

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Really? Why? It is great. Great variety of vehicles and awesome maps. You should really see the newest one, New Roland. It is a city near the sea.. There are many buildings and skyscrapers, a dropship and a destroyer. It is similar to Crimson Strait but feels way more like a true urban map! I want it in MWO!

I reall don't know. A bit to much Faffing about trying to get into a Mech, only to have it shot out from under me by Automated turrets! I guess I am just to old to adjust to multiple systems for my Mech games.

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How can you say Clan 'Mech will be OP? With all the limitations they have put on them? They are less flexible than BattleMechs and not even true Omnies!

No kidding! I almost cried when I read how Omnis were going to be handled. A CLanner only needs ONE Timber Wolf Chassis. The Pods are all that need to change. I worry if I am going to even feel right fighting Wolves and Falcons with their Omnis being hamstrung so badly!

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 January 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Well, one of teh Lawmen found a webpage that has a tournie system set up. We used it to have a 24 man battle. It was pretty CLan Like. We dropped 12 on 12. We knew who our opponent was and we fought each other ONLY. It was very Clan like... and quite fun.

As you may have seen in the Pentigon of Equals thread we are going to start an event like that I cannot wait.

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This would kinda defeat the purpose for my being Joe. Joseph Mallan is my oldest Character (pre dating BattleTech), He was my first TT character (a Battlemaser pilot 30 years ago) though, and I carried him through to be a member of the BattleCorps Legion (FanFic unit that became Canon) I want to attempt to play out the history I wrote for Joe, from being a member of the 10th Lyran, fighting beside Victor Steiner-Davion against teh Clans, and being in eyeball range when ilKhan Osis lost his head! Yes I would love to be handed a billet in the 10th LG. But that does not mean I deserve it. I will gladly earn it through sweat and hard work. That is all part of playing a game like this to me.

This is one of the points we might still discuss: if a player gained his position as Khan of a Clan (or Star Colonel or Galaxy Commander or anything) in MechWarrior 2.. Why should he earn it again in MW3? Well , it is true that Clan warriors are constantly tested but i think bringing a Clan unit forward in the future is more than enough a challenge for a leader who already earned his position.

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No kidding! I almost cried when I read how Omnis were going to be handled. A CLanner only needs ONE Timber Wolf Chassis. The Pods are all that need to change. I worry if I am going to even feel right fighting Wolves and Falcons with their Omnis being hamstrung so badly!

Yeah.. They needed to do this to have the 3 variant thing for OmniMechs..

[Gremlich Johns]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

This would only be needed IF there were more than...45 MechWarriors for the 328th and the 4th Wolf Guards? To bad you couldn't have the Omni fighters and Elementals as well! That would be wicked!!!

Go to MW:LL and you can do just this.


BTW, if the gametime, according to PGI, is going to be 3050 and upon CW/Planetary Conquest starts with Clan invasion players facing IS faction players who are piloting Clan mechs, what will the Clan player base likely do?

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 04 January 2014 - 01:16 PM.

[CyclonerM]

Gremlich Johns, on 04 January 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

Go to MW:LL and you can do just this.


BTW, if the gametime, according to PGI, is going to be 3050 and upon CW/Planetary Conquest starts with Clan invasion players facing IS faction players who are piloting Clan mechs, what will the Clan player base likely do?

Join Wolf's Dragoons? This is valid only for us Wolves...

EDIT: just to add.. I just did 7-2 with an Elemental BA in MWLL. Wow.

Edited by CyclonerM, 04 January 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Dark Horse X]

Thorn Hallis, on 09 December 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Because not many players will willingly enter a match knowing that their 'Mech and weapons are inferior by a wide margin?

I would gladly go into a match willingly outgunned.....in the long run I'll definitely get better with my mechs & loadouts, plus I like a challenge. Not to mention, sooner or later IS will start getting their hands on Clan tech and when that happens I feel I will have a leg up.